He who makes a beast of himself...

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DeviantlyD -> He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 2:13:46 AM)
...gets rid of the pain of being a man. The subject line, continued to the line above, is a quote from an 18th century writer, Dr. Samuel Johnson. It is also the line spoken at the beginning of one of my favourite songs. :) I was listening to said song this evening and it brought to mind a question I have for the men of these forums. Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do?

SoulAlloy -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 2:49:27 AM)
It doesn't entirely resonate with me, I find there's more an intrinsic pain associated with life rather than just with being a man(says a sufferer of depression lol). So what separates man and beast? I guess it would be morals - those senses that stop us from doing something perceived as wrong by whatever society we regard as important. For years I rejected my BDSM fantasies as I felt they would be rejected, embracing them has lessened the pain of life, one less conflict of the soul.

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 3:06:48 AM)
Thanks for your response SoulAlloy. It's too bad I couldn't have asked my question back in the time Dr. Johnson lived when men had more societal burdens on them than they do today. I can't help be curious here...what other conflicts of the soul do you have? I know that's likely an intensely personal question. But the great thing is that you have the choice to answer it or not answer it. :)

SoulAlloy -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 3:32:15 AM)
Message sent

Moonhead -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 5:24:07 AM)
I don't think it's from his fiction or essays: it's a quotation from the Johnson Miscellany (or whatever it's called), so it's more likely something he said to Boswell one evening while he was pissed up and being witty.

LaTigresse -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:01:00 AM)
If you make he she, man woman and himself herself..........I get it to a degree. But then again, I read the line with man as gender neutral...in a mankind sorta way. It wouldn't read as poetic 'A human who makes a beast of themself gets rid of the pain of being human'

Anaxagoras -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:10:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD ...gets rid of the pain of being a man. The subject line, continued to the line above, is a quote from an 18th century writer, Dr. Samuel Johnson. It is also the line spoken at the beginning of one of my favourite songs. :) I was listening to said song this evening and it brought to mind a question I have for the men of these forums. Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do? Am I the only one who thinks it sounds like D is trying to get a man (or men) into animal roleplay? [8D]

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:42:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse If you make he she, man woman and himself herself..........I get it to a degree. But then again, I read the line with man as gender neutral...in a mankind sorta way. It wouldn't read as poetic 'A human who makes a beast of themself gets rid of the pain of being human' http://www.samueljohnson.com/depressi.html Second item down should clarify that it was indeed "he" and not "us".

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:43:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD ...gets rid of the pain of being a man. The subject line, continued to the line above, is a quote from an 18th century writer, Dr. Samuel Johnson. It is also the line spoken at the beginning of one of my favourite songs. :) I was listening to said song this evening and it brought to mind a question I have for the men of these forums. Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do? Am I the only one who thinks it sounds like D is trying to get a man (or men) into animal roleplay? [8D] LOL Are you offering Anaxagoras? grins

LaTigresse -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:45:58 AM)
I understand that. But a thinking person will take those thoughts and apply them to themself to make sense of them. I doubt the writer expected only men to read it. And if he did, he is putz. And alas, men are not the only humans that suffer the affliction of humanity.

poise -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 6:49:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do? Staying somewhat on topic, perhaps the men who respond here can then be quoted under their image for the 2012 publication! http://www.collarchat.com/m_1551496/mpage_1/key_Calendar/tm.htm#1551496 I've got my score cards ready!

Anaxagoras -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD ...gets rid of the pain of being a man. The subject line, continued to the line above, is a quote from an 18th century writer, Dr. Samuel Johnson. It is also the line spoken at the beginning of one of my favourite songs. :) I was listening to said song this evening and it brought to mind a question I have for the men of these forums. Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do? Am I the only one who thinks it sounds like D is trying to get a man (or men) into animal roleplay? [8D] LOL Are you offering Anaxagoras? grins Well... I dunno, maybe I am... [;)] So what would you like: "moo", "baa", "woof"... [:D]

LillyBoPeep -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:39:56 AM)
in context, the quote refers to men, but i think if you take it out of context, and let it stand alone, as it does in this thread, then it can be read as "mankind" rather than man. i'm more likely to read it that way, too, just because any "pain" felt at being a "man" (which, i'm guessing in this quote correlates to "gentleman") vs. being a beast is similar for women. in the whole quote, a blind woman is remarking in men who are drunk and i guess behaving badly, to which the doctor she's talking to makes a statement, including the quote in the OP. in that context, it's easy to understand that these men get so drunk in order to be able to cut loose, or separate from their stressful day, or whatever. a person who chooses not to act in accordance with moral codes lives without the stress that those codes might cause. but women have these same issues, too. the pressure to behave a certain way because it's "lady like" where men get passes on the same types of behavior, etc etc. edit: oh aaand there is always this assumption that women are more "civilized" than men, because of an evolutionary tendency to group together, but i don't really think that's true, either. or if that's all it takes to be civilized, then we're denying civilization to other animals that move in herds. =p

LaTigresse -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:46:48 AM)
And anyone that has worked in the business where they see men and women getting drunk know for a FACT that men cannot even begin to compete with disgusting when it comes to a bunch of middle aged broads getting drunk and cutting loose. It's usually the ones you least expect that behaves the very worst.

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:47:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I understand that. But a thinking person will take those thoughts and apply them to themself to make sense of them. I doubt the writer expected only men to read it. And if he did, he is putz. And alas, men are not the only humans that suffer the affliction of humanity. It was the 1700's. My take on it is that he was being quoted from a conversation. I'm not entirely clear on the origin of the words, i.e. was this a conversation, was it a written story, how did the quote come to be....that sort of thing. But the crux of my question was more so related to whether or not men have internal struggle in such a manner. It's been proven there is a link between testosterone and aggressive behaviour, hence a beast. So are men experiencing something painful by virtue of being male? I suppose it's an impossible question really, because unless you have experienced life (emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically and physiologically) as both sexes, how would you know which was more "painful" to endure? I just wish I could get inside the head of a man sometimes. Not that I want to BE a man. Heck no. But I would like to experience the mindset of the opposite sex.

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: poise quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD Gee, the men of Collarchat...it could be a calendar, but I digress. :P I don't know under what context those words were spoken, but in spite of that, I will ask, does that line resonate with you? Is there pain in being a man? And do you find becoming a "beast" (however you wish to define what that is) makes it easier to bear if you do? Staying somewhat on topic, perhaps the men who respond here can then be quoted under their image for the 2012 publication! http://www.collarchat.com/m_1551496/mpage_1/key_Calendar/tm.htm#1551496 I've got my score cards ready! LOL There's an idea I could get behind. grin

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:50:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Am I the only one who thinks it sounds like D is trying to get a man (or men) into animal roleplay? [8D] LOL Are you offering Anaxagoras? grins Well... I dunno, maybe I am... [;)] So what would you like: "moo", "baa", "woof"... [:D] You're a tease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pout And just for that...you don't get to know what animal I'd be if I were to play with you. So there! :P :D

LaTigresse -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:53:02 AM)
Honestly, I think that in some ways, being male can be more difficult. Having watched both genders go through childhood and grow into adults, I felt that the maturing into a man seemed more fraught with landmines and inner agony. Granted, as you write, we cannot know both genders experience. Even a very empathetic person will view it through their own filters.

DeviantlyD -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:53:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse And anyone that has worked in the business where they see men and women getting drunk know for a FACT that men cannot even begin to compete with disgusting when it comes to a bunch of middle aged broads getting drunk and cutting loose. It's usually the ones you least expect that behaves the very worst. I'm thinking the reason is that men have had more practise at it so they are more adept at covering their boorish ways than women would be. Just a totally unsubstantiated theory mind you! No need for any men to be upset. teasing grin

LillyBoPeep -> RE: He who makes a beast of himself... (10/9/2011 7:53:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD I just wish I could get inside the head of a man sometimes. Not that I want to BE a man. Heck no. But I would like to experience the mindset of the opposite sex. haha agreed! i think it would be neat, actually, to see what life is like as one of them. i guess you could think of it in terms of the men who say that modern society has emasculated them. they certainly are feeling some sort of "pain" over the space modern men fit vs. the space they fit at other times in history. like the phrase "when men were men" and "boys will be boys" etc -- there were times when brutish behavior, especially towards women, was more acceptable. but if i compare those issues to ones that women have endured in society for hundreds of years, i don't really see a huge difference. how many women gave up all of their hopes and dreams in order to "marry right" and do what was considered "right" by society's standards, or because they literally had no other options?

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