twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends.

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DomKen -> twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 3:02:28 PM)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/the-myth-of-voter-fraud.html?_r=1&ref=opinion http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012 Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like. It is shameful that 50 years after we finally got rid the last of the discriminatory impediments to voting some people in power are trying to bring them back.

Kirata -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 4:31:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like. The Executive Summary at your second link reads: *State governments across the country...* Wanna explain what kind of gee-whiz crap you're using to transform "state governments across the country" into "Republicans"? K.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 4:35:15 PM)
FR Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally.

thompsonx -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 4:37:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy FR Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally. Could you name them or is that a secret?

erieangel -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 8:45:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy FR Certain liberals think its fine for people to vote illegally. Could you name them or is that a secret? I'd just like him to name two verifiable instances where liberal voting laws have led to voter fraud which then led to arrest, indictment and conviction of the perpetrators. Just two, willbe.

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 8:53:31 PM)
Indiana's law, passed in 2005, was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2008. Levitt combed through 250 cases of alleged election law fraud cited in legal briefs filed in that challenge. He found only nine instances involving a person allegedly voting in someone else's name, possibly fraudulently or possibly because of an error when the person signed in at the voting booth. "They identified a lot of fraud, but very, very, very, very, very, very little of it could be prevented by identification at the polls," Levitt said. The remainder involved vote buying, ballot-box stuffing, problems with absentee ballots, or ex-convicts voting even though laws bar them from doing so. Over the same seven-year time period covered by the cases Levitt reviewed, 400 million votes were cast in general elections. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/voter-id-laws-target-rarely-occurring-voter-fraud/#ixzz1aRSUDFL6

DomKen -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 8:54:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Certain Republicans believe the only way they can win elections is to deny the right to vote to groups they don't like. The Executive Summary at your second link reads: *State governments across the country...* Wanna explain what kind of gee-whiz crap you're using to transform "state governments across the country" into "Republicans"? K. You failed to read the whole thing I see. The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans.

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 8:59:04 PM)
WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 9:00:22 PM)
~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay.

DomKen -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 9:16:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay. It's not just the cost, there is a SCOTUS ruling against any poll tax so an ID required for voting must be free, but the difficulty of getting such an ID. If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. Another challenge for the poor is getting all the documents needed to get the ID. Once a person is legally registered, which does require ID, it should not be necessary to keep presenting a valid ID every time the voter goes to the polls. Simply checking signatures should be enough.

erieangel -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 9:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay. Scott Walker signed a voter ID law, then proceeded to close the DMV centers located in poorer and Democratic districts. The DMV offices also told employees not to offer the ID cards for free, but that citizens are supposed to ASK for them. My question is a person supposed to know they are required to ask?

Kirata -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/10/2011 11:53:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans. Well no, actually you're just making shit up as usual. Of the 14 states that have passed legislation so far, in fact three legislatures are Democrat controlled and one is divided. Additionally, bills are pending in 16 other states of which 8 have legislatures that are Democrat controlled. Reference: Post 2010 Election Partisan Composition of State Legislatures K.

Kirata -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/11/2011 12:31:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. You're making shit up again. Just skimming the list, the various photo ID options include a number of things besides a driver's license. In some cases, absent a photo ID you can still cast a provisional ballot. In other cases, different provisions are available. I'm not going to go down the list state by state. Why don't you do that? It'll be a good exercise in intellectual honesty for you. Summary of States Laws and Bills K.

DomKen -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/11/2011 5:02:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. You're making shit up again. Just skimming the list, the various photo ID options include a number of things besides a driver's license. In some cases, absent a photo ID you can still cast a provisional ballot. In other cases, different provisions are available. I'm not going to go down the list state by state. Why don't you do that? It'll be a good exercise in intellectual honesty for you. Summary of States Laws and Bills K. You're making shit up! I said the DMV was the usual issuer not the only possible issuer. Why did you choose to lie about what I wrote?

DomKen -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/11/2011 5:18:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The 14 states that made voting harder have state houses run by republicans. Well no, actually you're just making shit up as usual. Of the 14 states that have passed legislation so far, in fact three legislatures are Democrat controlled and one is divided. Additionally, bills are pending in 16 other states of which 8 have legislatures that are Democrat controlled. Reference: Post 2010 Election Partisan Composition of State Legislatures Alabama Florida Georgia Kansas Maine Ohio South Carolina Tennessee Texas Wisconsin Are all GOP controlled and all passed measures to make voting harder. So 10 Republican dominated states passed laws making voting harder while Iowa's Republican Governor restricted voting rights by EO. Quibbling that I miscounted and did forget Rhode Island and West Virginian was Democratically controlled is certainly par for the course. I'm sure my minor mistake is far more important than GOP leaders systematically disenfranchising eligible voters.

thompsonx -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/12/2011 10:02:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay. Why not free for everyone?

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/12/2011 10:04:49 AM)
The cost of the card is not that big... usually between 10 and 20. Most can afford that, some cannot. For those who cant, give them a card. The right to vote is a right... it cant be taken away without due process.

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/12/2011 10:06:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay. Scott Walker signed a voter ID law, then proceeded to close the DMV centers located in poorer and Democratic districts. The DMV offices also told employees not to offer the ID cards for free, but that citizens are supposed to ASK for them. My question is a person supposed to know they are required to ask? They all know now. And, for those who cannot afford, the county offices are telling them.

tazzygirl -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/12/2011 10:11:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR I have no problem with Voter ID cards... however... if required, they should be offered for free for those who cannot afford to pay. It's not just the cost, there is a SCOTUS ruling against any poll tax so an ID required for voting must be free, but the difficulty of getting such an ID. If you don't drive due to income or disability simply getting to the nearest DMV office (the usual issuer of such things) can be a challenge. Most such centers simply aren't set up to deal with people physically unable to drive and no accomodation for the needs of people who need the voter ID's have been made. Another challenge for the poor is getting all the documents needed to get the ID. Once a person is legally registered, which does require ID, it should not be necessary to keep presenting a valid ID every time the voter goes to the polls. Simply checking signatures should be enough. I do understand your thinking here. I also submit that many of those same people will require transportation to various agencies and Dr appointments. And, yes, getting that information is a challenge. Its the same challenge they need when they sign up for any type of benefits. As far as signatures... by 16 I could sign my mothers name just as well as she could. [:D]

thompsonx -> RE: twisting democracy’s machinery to partisan ends. (10/12/2011 10:13:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The cost of the card is not that big... usually between 10 and 20. Most can afford that, some cannot. For those who cant, give them a card. The right to vote is a right... it cant be taken away without due process. Why not free or everyone?

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