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RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 9:58:18 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

To me, atheism is a lack of belief in anything bigger than yourself.
OK, so you're redefining the word to suit your purposes, so there's really no point in continuing the discussion until we can agree on the terms to be used, and I already did that once on this thread and I am not going to go through that again just to explore your particular belief system, as that really is beyond the scope of the thread's topic. If you'd like to continue through cmail, I would be interested.


Um, Heather? First, Im not arguing with you over definitions. You asked for my belief. If atheists do not believe in a "higher power" would that not also be a belief in only yourself?

In not referring to relationships, but more on a cosmic level.

Keep in mind "belief", to me, has two definitions in this context. belief in a religious sense.. and belief as in a supposition.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/12/2011 9:59:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:13:41 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

belief in a religious sense.. and belief as in a supposition
same shit

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Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:16:51 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How is it the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_belief

Religious belief refers to a mental state in which faith is placed in a creed related to the supernatural, sacred, or divine. Such a state may relate to the existence, characteristics and worship of a deity or deities, divine intervention in the universe and human life, or values and practices centered on the teachings of a spiritual leader. In contrast to other belief systems, religious beliefs are usually codified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

I still dont see how they are the same.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 10/12/2011 10:24:47 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:24:57 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

and your original assertion was that indeed, "atheism is a religion", the first time I quoted you.
really? let's check that fucker shall we?

here we are, post 27 it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
The court is basically right. Atheism is a religious belief.
Bullshit, it's a hole where religious belief would otherwise be.

Is common sense a religion? A religion is based on a belief in magical thinking, atheism has no magical thinking in it per se - a philosophy, sure, and philosophy is at the very least, equivalent to religion, religion being a philosophy of sorts.

But with magical thinking.

Some religions are more like philosophies, Buddhism for example, very different from the straight up paternalism of Christianity - it's that paternalism that want's to correct everybody and they call everything a religion because they can deal with that, if it's a religion, you're just "lost", it's their job to convert you to the true religion, give's 'em something to do with that hole where a mind would otherwise be.

They have no fucking idea how to deal with a philosophy, they don't know how to act, it's not in the script, it's outside the box.
i think the technical term for that is bullshit. i defy you to find a single instance of her saying "atheism is a religion" anywhere on this fucking thread.


_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:28:18 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.
um, maybe the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise, such as the existence of god, transubstantiation, reincarnation, or any other religious proposition or premise, to be true.

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:30:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You can believe you left something somewhere, car keys for example... a belief... a supposition.

You can believe the sun will rise tomorrow... a belief.. a supposition.

You can believe you will still have a job tomorrow... a belief.. a supposition.

These have nothing to do with religious belief.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:33:08 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
Yes, and object oriented oriented software...

Score :) You had to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
And, if you look at it that way, astrology is the parent object of both astronomy and psychology

Nope, as it has properties and methods not inherited by any.
The fact that is has a common interface does not make it a base class.
:)
Of course you CAN hide methods and properties of a base class, but then you are just raping the hierarchy. It is not a base class, in this case not.
:)

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:35:01 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline 		you can believe in the immortal soul..a belief... a supposition.

you can believe in the magical powers of baptism...a belief...a supposition

you can believe in the efficacy of prayer...a belief...a supposition.

belief is belief is belief, it makes no fucking difference what it is you believe in.


_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:35:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		All you just presented are religious beliefs.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:39:50 AM   
xssve


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Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

and your original assertion was that indeed, "atheism is a religion", the first time I quoted you.
really? let's check that fucker shall we?

here we are, post 27 it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
The court is basically right. Atheism is a religious belief.
Bullshit, it's a hole where religious belief would otherwise be.

Is common sense a religion? A religion is based on a belief in magical thinking, atheism has no magical thinking in it per se - a philosophy, sure, and philosophy is at the very least, equivalent to religion, religion being a philosophy of sorts.

But with magical thinking.

Some religions are more like philosophies, Buddhism for example, very different from the straight up paternalism of Christianity - it's that paternalism that want's to correct everybody and they call everything a religion because they can deal with that, if it's a religion, you're just "lost", it's their job to convert you to the true religion, give's 'em something to do with that hole where a mind would otherwise be.

They have no fucking idea how to deal with a philosophy, they don't know how to act, it's not in the script, it's outside the box.
i think the technical term for that is bullshit. i defy you to find a single instance of her saying "atheism is a religion" anywhere on this fucking thread.

Ok, but we' just back to the original question, which was her contention that I was confusing religion with religious belief, she said "religious belief", I said, "religious belief".

The rest is pointing out that having an opinion about a religious belief does not a religion make - it's confusing religious belief with an opinion about religious belief, that is confusion.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:48:09 AM   
kittysbell


Posts: 32
Joined: 10/10/2011
Status: offline 		i seen some asignigne comment about belief and car keys.while it makes sense in a way,it was used against me in relationship to the ingendered condition.while i despise religion as an old world form of controle. i feel that it is utter bullshit to dismiss rational feelings as a mere belief.just because something isnt accepted or proven yet doesnt mean that it wont be.i believe that author is merely trained in the art of repetition.seeing as how ive heard that crap more than once. but then again language and its subsequent use of invented terminology is nothing more than an evolving meme.just as were an evolving (supposedly intellectual) species. the true leaders are idealists that create the words you followers choose to use to describe something,and when you know nothing at all about what is bieng discussed,merely a mockery of its intended use as description.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:55:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

i feel that it is utter bullshit to dismiss rational feelings as a mere belief.


I pulled this out because the rest of what you said made no sense to me.

Anyways.... why is it utter bullshit to believe I left my keys on the table? Obviously I am not certain (btw, Im always leaving my keys somewhere)


Religion is certainly a type of belief system, but not all belief systems are religion.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kittysbell)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 10:55:56 AM   
gungadin09


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Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Do you understand?

Saying that God does not exist: Adeo. Crossing the line the first time.
Not saying that God exists: Crossing the line the second time. Adeo and Agnos.

Got it?


If by the blue you meant "not saying that God does NOT exist", then i got it. Otherwise, still no.

pam

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Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:12:04 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Do you understand?

Saying that God does not exist: Adeo. Crossing the line the first time.
Not saying that God exists: Crossing the line the second time. Adeo and Agnos.

Got it?


If by the blue you meant "not saying that God does NOT exist", then i got it. Otherwise, still no.

pam

No, sorry. The ones who crossed the second line were the ones who do NOT say, that God exists. That's the reason why Deista remained, but Agnos crossed the line - he does not say, that God exists.

Remember, the guy said... those you say that He exists can REMAIN. Agnos does not say that, therefore he had to move his old bones and cross the line.
Because he does not say, that God exists. He had to cross the line.
Agnos crosses the line, when he gets told, that he can only REMAIN, if he says that God exists.

Got it now?

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:19:03 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
"I don't believe that god exists" and "I believe that god does not exist." I think your point is that the first could include agnostics as well as atheists and the second could only include atheists.


... how is it a fallacy - since, logically, not believing that something exists and believing that something doesn't exist really, really are two different things - whether the difference is important or not is moot I'll grant you - but the difference is there.


Oh, for the love of god (no pun intended). OKAY... not believing that something exists and believing that something does not exist do not mean the same, exact, identical thing. Their meaning is merely so very close that for the purpose of this argument (which is NOT about whether agnostics should be allowed to form a religious group in prison)- for our purposes the difference has no meaning. But, point conceded. Rock on, you semantic freaks.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 10/12/2011 11:20:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:24:51 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
Got it?


i got it. i don't see how it makes any difference whatsoever for the discussion we are having, and i wonder that you brought it up.

pam



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Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:25:18 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline 		gungadin09:

I do not understand the attack. This thread has developed for many pages as a discussion exactly about the difference of strong and weak Atheism. That was the point... and that was YOUR question I was answering to.

If now you have to attack to give a point, that's a pity for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
Oh my goodness, i'm so confused. To me, "i don't believe god exists" and "i believe god does not exist" mean exactly the same thing.
That was YOUR confusion and I was trying to help you to resolve it.

Sorry for helping! Gosh!

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/12/2011 11:27:14 AM >

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:26:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		pam, dont you know questioning the absolute authority on atheism is an attack?

tsk tsk

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:33:48 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Oh my goodness, i'm so confused. To me, "i don't believe god exists" and "i believe god does not exist" mean exactly the same thing.

pam


How's this - I don't = I do not, so:

1. I do not believe god exists
2. I believe god does not exist

#1's negation goes to believe and #2's negation goes to exist.

(This was also demonstrated in the $100,000 in your wallet example, but I'm late to the party.)

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Court Rules: Atheism is a Religion - 10/12/2011 11:35:30 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Oh my goodness, i'm so confused. To me, "i don't believe god exists" and "i believe god does not exist" mean exactly the same thing.

pam


How's this - I don't = I do not, so:

1. I do not believe god exists
2. I believe god does not exist

#1's negation goes to believe and #2's negation goes to exist.

(This was also demonstrated in the $100,000 in your wallet example, but I'm late to the party.)
I guess now she's going to attack you too...

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 220
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