quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Dont be, he created a strawman specious argument in an attempt to support his agenda.

I'm not sure what you think my agenda might be.

As far as my I'm concerned - I've been having a really interesting riff with Heather. That's it.

It's been a bit off topic, but ya know - that happens some times.

quote:



Graphically analyzing their structure they are grammatically identical.

I expect that if you dropped both of them into a bowl of soup they would appear to be grammatically identical.

But if you looked at them from the point of view of grammar, you'd certainly discover that they are gramatically, really, really, really very distinct.

In one sentence the "not" modifies "belief" in the other it modifies "exists".

quote:



Slight emphasis difference but the meaning is identical.

Notwithstanding the logical catastrophe inherent in "different emphasis" vs "identical meaning", you're wrong. The meaning is quite different.

quote:



He is making a specious argument about some figment that does not exist in the sentence.

It's not clear at all to me you've demonstrated that the argument is specious, in fact you've posited a specious argument as to the speciousness of mine ;-)

quote:



Beware of people where English is not their native language trying to teach it.  LOL

Indeed. We should all be aware of that. I'm thankful that English is my first language. LOL.



POSTSCRIPT

If dancing on pinheads, and semantics, isn't your bag then that's ok; it's not really my favourite thing either. But sometimes, to make a case or defend a position it has to boil down to precisely what the words mean. I'm not having a snippy argument with anyone, it's not about scoring points - It's about looking at language.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

That was directed at the spanish dood not you, my bad for lack of editing.  Sorry for the confusion.

Granted in many cases emphasis can and does make or completely change the context of sentence.  My point is that in those sentences it does not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

they are grammatically identical... the meaning is identical.

Beware of people where English is not their native language trying to teach it.

I disagree with your claim in regard to "I believe that god does not exist" versus "I do not believe that god exists."

The difference is the difference between "I believe" and "I do not believe," namely, that the former expresses an affirmative belief while the latter states only an absence of belief. An absence of belief in the existence of something is not the same as an affirmative belief in its non-existence.

The simplest demonstration of this is someone who has never given any thought to the matter of whether or not God exists. Rather obviously, such a person would not hold a belief that God exists. But your logic demands that they would necessarily therefore hold the belief that God does not exist.

Nuh-uh.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Agnostic for instance is neutral.

I disagree with your claim that "agnostic" is neutral. The agnostic position is that it is not possible to know.

Of course, in your view that may appear to be the same thing.

K.

quote:

THE VERY DEFINITION of aTheism is "there is no god". Agnostic means "Hell if I know". In English, the prefix "a" ("an") generally means "without". Like the word "anhedonia": an·he·do·ni·a (nh-dn-) n. The absence of pleasure or the ability to experience it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
A sidenote to SpanishMatMaster - El paradigma se presentó (el ateísmo débil y fuerte) era un trabajo de copia de evilbible.com. Que tuvo la audacia de pedir a otros que apreciamos sus esfuerzos más allá de mi comprensión. Lo que se presentó fue el esfuerzo de otros, no el suyo propio y, como tal, no tengo ningún aprecio por su la falta de esfuerzo y el intento de exponer el trabajo de otros como si fuera el suyo propio. Usted no está haciendo ningún favor al foro cuando se roban el trabajo de alguien más. Por lo menos debería haber citado la fuente, pero supongo que habría sido difícil hacerlo ya que reclamó como propio. Te has portado como un mentiroso y un ladrón, y puede ser que también me esconden ahora porque "nunca" tendrá respeto por el tipo de carácter que han mostrado por sus acciones.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml
But sometimes, to make a case or defend a position it has to boil down to precisely what the words mean.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Back to the point, however: If you accept Carl Sagan's observation that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, then an absence of belief is not a belief in absence.
K.

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ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
no, they arent the same thing, because while you don't "know for a fact" that your keys will be where you left them, for them not to be would defy your years of experience. It goes way beyond "belief" to a rational expectation and has nothing to do with faith.

That's only true if you remember for sure where you left your keys.  If you only think you put them there, but you're not sure, then it's a belief.  Incidently, i suspect almost nothing is really KNOWN.  We say we "know" something when in fact we just believe it really, really strongly.  For example, it's possible, although unlikely, that the sun really WON'T rise tomorrow.  However, i still say i "know" it will.  But that's another thread, isn't it?

pam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Back to the point, however: If you accept Carl Sagan's observation that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, then an absence of belief is not a belief in absence.

K.

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THE VERY DEFINITION of aTheism is "there is no god".

quote:

In English, the prefix "a" ("an") generally means "without".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Back to the point, however: If you accept Carl Sagan's observation that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, then an absence of belief is not a belief in absence.

K.

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

THE VERY DEFINITION of aTheism is "there is no god". Agnostic means "Hell if I know". In English, the prefix "a" ("an") generally means "without". Like the word "anhedonia": an·he·do·ni·a (nh-dn-) n. The absence of pleasure or the ability to experience it.

From the Sanskrit (improper capitalization for emphasis):

aSteya - "avoidance of stealing" or "non-stealing"
aVidya - ignorance (not knowledge)
aHimsa - Nonviolence
aRjava - renouncing deception and wrongdoing
aParigraha - absence of avarice

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ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

THE VERY DEFINITION of aTheism is "there is no god".

Again its derived from [A]Theos.

meaning no God, Godless, Lacking God, Void God and other synonyms that indicate [A]bsense

NOT "There is no God"

quote:

In English, the prefix "a" ("an") generally means "without".

You mean, like in "without belief on God"? Well, duh, that's Oxford pure...

It generally means a negation, no, without, void, lack etc.

aLias: Absense of lias.
aStonished: Absence of stonished. Duh, that shit helps to understand eeeeeeeveeeerything...

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The Romans used A to signify a negative or dissent in giving their votes; A standing for antiquo, I oppose or object to the proposed law.