Forgive Student Loans?

Forgive Student Loans? (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:33:56 PM)
I think this is a bad idea: http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic?source=mo&id=32074-19913921-QDa5Kxx What does that teach about responsibility? That it's ok to incur 6 figures worth of debt and have it erased? You can generally color me liberal, but I think this is ridiculous. (This petition is part of MoveOn.org's new initiative to let members create petitions and was not created by MoveOn itself.)

tazzygirl -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:37:32 PM)
quote: Forgiving the student loan debt of all Americans will have an immediate stimulative effect on our economy. I already have problems with this. While I think the cost of education is ridiculous, these students took out these loans. I would be very agreeable to the development of a plan to work off those loans. But a blanket forgiveness? Nope.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:38:29 PM)
I took out loans for grad school knowing Id have to pay em off and I did. If you don't wanna pay it off, don't borrow it.

Moonhead -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:39:40 PM)
If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:42:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry. The only thing that makes a student unemployable when they graduate is the student either fucking off and flunking out or choosing a major that leads to a McJob. Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick?

tazzygirl -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:42:40 PM)
How is giving them loans making them unemployable?

Moonhead -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:45:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry. The only thing that makes a student unemployable when they graduate is the student either fucking off and flunking out or choosing a major that leads to a McJob. Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick? Fair point. I can still understand some idiot whose careers advisor told him that a joint honours degree in medieval metaphysics and Bowie studies would get them a job feeling a bit narked when they meet reality, though.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:47:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead If the banks are giving tuition loans to kids to make them unemployable when they graduate, I really can't see any problem with them being expected to eat the cost themselves. Sorry. The only thing that makes a student unemployable when they graduate is the student either fucking off and flunking out or choosing a major that leads to a McJob. Personal responsibility. If I offer you rat poison and you know it's rat poison and you eat it anyway, is it my fault you get sick? Fair point. I can still understand some idiot whose careers advisor told him that a joint honours degree in medieval metaphysics and Bowie studies would get them a job feeling a bit narked when they meet reality, though. If someone is that stupid, I don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy for em.

Moonhead -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 12:49:01 PM)
Also a fair point.

GreedyTop -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 3:49:57 PM)
true story: I decided later in my life tobecome a student and get a degree in video production (a gorwing field). I applied for, and was granted loans. I managed to get through the fiirst quarter on those loans. HOWEVER. because of class scheduling, I was not able to find a job (several of teh same course classes had classes back and forth across the day/night, not to mention the other classes that were on different days, etc.. in other words... I did not have a class schedule that any employer could say: oh yeah.. lets put her on THIS schedule) I had to drop out before I got halfway through the second quarter. this was not for lack of desire to complete the degree.. it was purely a financial reality. Now, I have sallie mae snagging any tax returns I may have (I'm ok with that). But FFS.. I am living paycheck to paycheck.. and usually THAT is uncertain.. I would LOVE to pay off what I owe.. but, yanno, things like rent/utilities/groceries/gas for the car/etc kinda take precedence. I obviously didnt graduate, since I couldnt afford to complete the courses. PLEASE.. I am not making 6 figures .. and the 5 figures I DO earn leave me well into the poverty level. Student loan forgivness would be a GODSEND for me..

HannahLynn -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:22:20 PM)
quote: What does that teach about responsibility? and not forgiving the loans teaches them what? that the fucking bank's profits are more important than their ability to lead a decent life?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:26:41 PM)
I have very mixed feelings about this, although I don't think there is much justification for just forgiving student loans out right. I can't imagine starting out life 60K in debt. I agree in concept that if you borrow it, you should pay it back. I also am a little dismayed about how the cost of tuition has accelerated (far more than the cost of living) and how difficult it is for people to go to school without incurring student loans. I also see little justification for school loans not being discharged in bankruptcy, just like other debts. When I graduated from graduate school., many people graduated with about 90K in debt. They undoubtedly incurred the debt, and it was their choice to go to school. Many of them, have dutifully made the payments, deferring home ownership, or starting a family in order to make the payments. At least my classmates had good job prospects that would allow their loans to be paid back. Others have found scams to keep the loans in deferral. I worked with someone for a while who just continually kept taking classes so that her loans would continue to be deferred and the repayment obligation would not start. Supposedly she was working on a doctorate in divinity. Someone else I know refinanced their house and paid their loans in full from the refinancing. When their house was later foreclosed on in a strategic default,. the loans essentially went away, along with the remainder of the obligation for the mortgage. In the absence of something like that, my classmates just keep paying their loans, sometimes for as long as 30 years. I think a better solution than outright forgiveness would be for people to carefully consider whether it makes sense financially to go to school. If the best you can hope for is a 40K per year job after a year of unemployment, than it probably doesn't make sense to incur big loans that will just be a source of misery. High school counselors and universities have a responsibility to tell their students this. I also think student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy, like other debts..

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:28:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I think this is a bad idea: http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic?source=mo&id=32074-19913921-QDa5Kxx What does that teach about responsibility? That it's ok to incur 6 figures worth of debt and have it erased? You can generally color me liberal, but I think this is ridiculous. (This petition is part of MoveOn.org's new initiative to let members create petitions and was not created by MoveOn itself.) I agree with you. It is a bad idea. I would be all for a way to make it easier for loans to be paid back, but total forgiveness? Well, if they want to forgive me Federal Income taxes for the next 250 k I owe, I might think about liking it!

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:37:14 PM)
One more problem I have with just forgiving student loans is that it would penalize people who saved money to go to college or send their kids to college. They would have paid tuition, someone who took out a loan and then didn't have to pay it back wouldn't. That seems fundamentally unfair. I do think ways of tying payment amounts to income, increase deferrals during periods of unemployment and ways of trading community or other service for partial debt forgiveness would be a good idea, though. I certainly understand the misery of those who thought higher education would improve their lives, only to find find out they can't get jobs and their loan payments are huge. Just letting them walk away doesn't make sense, though

HannahLynn -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:40:04 PM)
quote: I think a better solution than outright forgiveness would be for people to carefully consider whether it makes sense financially to go to school. quote: it would penalize people who saved money to go to college or send their kids to college. translation: you're poor, shut the fuck up and bring me my fries.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 4:58:27 PM)
FR: The problem is the unmitigated increase in tuition costs. Most colleges and universities increase tuition because students are able to take out loans to cover them. The school gets the money, but has little responsibility to the student. It's called the "higher education bubble", and is - in theory - no different than the housing bubble. In other words, the government continues to guarantee student loans, the money goes to the schools, and the student is left holding the bag for eternity since the loans are no longer dis-chargeable in bankruptcy. Students sometimes make bad decisions about what type of education to finance, certainly, but one main reason we have so many college degreed people working at a MacJobs is that the system allows them to ignore the economics. There are several law schools being sued now by graduates, who have claimed that their colleges advertised placement rates for graduates that were not only misleading, but intentionally inflated to entice them to attend. I believe them. Personally, I had student loans, and paid them off, but I sympathize with people who have taken so much out now that it becomes an albatross. Some sort of system needs to be in place so that there are negative consequences for the college or university when they charge too much or have students with loans who can not pay it back (such as restricting the number of loans to new students, based on the track record of graduates .... or something). Firm

GreedyTop -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 5:02:54 PM)
unless my tired eyes/brain misunderstood what you were saying, Firm/.. I am in 100% agreement! gasp LOL as an aside, I see that nobody yet has addressed the situation I put forth in my previous post...

slvemike4u -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 5:02:55 PM)
Will loans taken out by parents,so that their only beloved son can go to NYU,be forgiven ? Enquiring minds want to know ( so do broke ass disabled parents who are struggling to do what is right,while still living a decent life...with gas in the car...lol)

FirmhandKY -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 5:12:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop unless my tired eyes/brain misunderstood what you were saying, Firm/.. I am in 100% agreement! gasp LOL as an aside, I see that nobody yet has addressed the situation I put forth in my previous post... No, I think we agree. In your case, the school should be penalized for you not being able to complete the semester. If they were, they might have a better job placement, integration, intern program, or be more willing to accommodate working students. Right now ... they have your money .. "fuck you" seems to often be the institutional attitude, if not that of the individual employees. It's another case of "Big Business" getting a powerful government to do their bidding. In this case "Big Business" is both many of the schools, and the banks who loan the money. Getting the law changed so that the loans were non-dischargeable was the nail in the coffin for any responsibility on anyone's part, other than the student. Therefore, no one has any interest in containing costs or ensuring that the education is effective, or that a student actually has a potential path to pay back the loans. I would say "discharge them all!" except the schools, the government and the lenders all would learn nothing, and the cycle will continue, and grow worse. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Forgive Student Loans? (10/17/2011 5:16:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Will loans taken out by parents,so that their only beloved son can go to NYU,be forgiven ? Enquiring minds want to know ( so do broke ass disabled parents who are struggling to do what is right,while still living a decent life...with gas in the car...lol) Without researching I couldn't tell you for certain, but I'm pretty sure that any Federal Government guaranteed student loan is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. The person mentioned in a post above, who used a home equity loan to pay them off, and then took a strategic bankruptcy (or foreclosure) was slick, but not everyone can do something like that. Firm

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