RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan

RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 6:29:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 It's childish to continue to ask for an answer, when one was already given you. It's just that it isn't the answer you wish to hear, in order to feed your own particular beliefs. So ... calling you childish is accurate. Saying that you are in danger of displaying characteristics that may allow you to be categorized at some future date as either an idiot or a psychotic is a statement of fact. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 6:35:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Call it what you will. Your logic is that a "rich man" uses or potentially has the use of public infrastructure in order to live his life, and is therefore obligated to "pay more" By your logic, if someone is not using any or some part of that infrastructure, then he shouldn't be obligated to pay for it (pay less). Firm

Edwynn -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 6:42:58 PM)
That was not the implication whatsoever, nor did anything that I said come even close to what you are saying. Sorry, but your misreading of what another says in order to argue with your fabrication of what they said might '"work for you" on some occasions, but it certainly won't work in this instance. You read what you want to read, as always. There's logic and then there's politics. All I can say is that you made the wise academic choice there, considering your ability.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 6:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn That was not the implication whatsoever, nor did anything that I said come even close to what you are saying. Sorry, but your misreading of what another says in order to argue with your fabrication of what they said might '"work for you" on some occasions, but it certainly won't work in this instance. There is always "more" to a statement than just what the individual making it wishes to espouse. Sometimes, it's just because it's too complex to cover all the details. Sometimes it's because many of the other issues aren't pertinent to the discussion. And sometimes it's because the individual making the statement just doesn't wish to see or acknowledge that their position may used in ways that don't support their particular ideological view. quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn You read what you want to read, as always. There's logic and then there's politics. All I can say is that you made the wise academic choice there, considering your ability. Since I'm not associated with academia, I reach the conclusion that you have been insufficiently observant, or simply ... again ... mistaken. Firm

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 7:53:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Epytropos I don't get why Buffet doesn't just write the IRS a giant check if he really thinks he should be paying more taxes. I have to think they'd cash it in a heartbeat. Just take a giant check like the Publisher's Clearing House has, write down the biggest number he can think of, and take it down there. The same reason very few others do. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Which is....? Do you write an extra check to the feds every year? I bet you buy coffee every day, or smokes, go to a bar and have drinks occasionally, buy flowers or cards for friends, cat toys, Christmas or Birthday presents for friends or family, I bet you run your tires to (almost) the end....why don't you run them to the (actual) end.....why don't you take that additional money and send it to the government to lower the deficit? How about music? You could listen to the radio more often instead. How about your cable or internet bill? Why don't you spend a one time fee of $400.00 and put up an antennae and get local channels only? Work a deal with your nearest neighbors....get a wireless and let them all tap in to your signal for 1/5th the monthly cost (you could probably make a buck off it and send even that excess to the feds). How about TP? Use 3 sheets instead of 5? The extra savings could go to the feds. Yeah? No? Oh....ok.

Edwynn -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 7:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY There is always "more" to a statement than just what the individual making it wishes to espouse. Whereupon your ideological opportunism leads you to "take that ball and run with it," as on this and numerous other occasions. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Sometimes, it's just because it's too complex to cover all the details. I gave sufficient detail for the average reader to understand that I was speaking of the greater benefit of our legal and regulatory infrastructure derived by some more than others, and that this was addressing the question of how much some should contribute to that. Nothing to do with what others should not pay. Sorry if that was too complex for you. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY And sometimes it's because the individual making the statement just doesn't wish to see or acknowledge that their position may used in ways that don't support their particular ideological view. "... doesn't see or acknowledge that their position may be taken completely out of context, have meanings and words inserted that were never said, and twisted in whatever fashion suits the responder who doesn't wish to see or acknowledge anything that doesn't support his particular ideological view," you mean? Not only do I see and acknowledge such twaddle, I absolutely count on it from the likes of you. But again, I post what I do for reading by intelligent audiences also. I did not "associate" you with academia other than thinking that you had a degree. Sorry, my mistake.

Masta808 -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/20/2011 11:19:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 It's childish to continue to ask for an answer, when one was already given you. It's just that it isn't the answer you wish to hear, in order to feed your own particular beliefs. So ... calling you childish is accurate. Saying that you are in danger of displaying characteristics that may allow you to be categorized at some future date as either an idiot or a psychotic is a statement of fact. Firm Still using Ad Hominem I see I take that as you reject your earlier arguments and proof that you are a hypocrite and have proven you have no idea what you are talking about.

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 2:45:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Epytropos I don't get why Buffet doesn't just write the IRS a giant check if he really thinks he should be paying more taxes. I have to think they'd cash it in a heartbeat. Just take a giant check like the Publisher's Clearing House has, write down the biggest number he can think of, and take it down there. The same reason very few others do. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Which is....? Do you write an extra check to the feds every year? I bet you buy coffee every day, or smokes, go to a bar and have drinks occasionally, buy flowers or cards for friends, cat toys, Christmas or Birthday presents for friends or family, I bet you run your tires to (almost) the end....why don't you run them to the (actual) end.....why don't you take that additional money and send it to the government to lower the deficit? How about music? You could listen to the radio more often instead. How about your cable or internet bill? Why don't you spend a one time fee of $400.00 and put up an antennae and get local channels only? Work a deal with your nearest neighbors....get a wireless and let them all tap in to your signal for 1/5th the monthly cost (you could probably make a buck off it and send even that excess to the feds). How about TP? Use 3 sheets instead of 5? The extra savings could go to the feds. Yeah? No? Oh....ok. Why the hell would I send the government extra money when they cant manage the money they have now? Look at the 999 plan. Fucking tax cuts for the rich, screw everyone else. Think maybe that is what Warren is bitching about? [image]local://upfiles/502828/3500850E305F46639858C556AD77CB59.jpg[/image]

Epytropos -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 3:24:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Epytropos I don't get why Buffet doesn't just write the IRS a giant check if he really thinks he should be paying more taxes. I have to think they'd cash it in a heartbeat. Just take a giant check like the Publisher's Clearing House has, write down the biggest number he can think of, and take it down there. The same reason very few others do. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Which is....? Do you write an extra check to the feds every year? I bet you buy coffee every day, or smokes, go to a bar and have drinks occasionally, buy flowers or cards for friends, cat toys, Christmas or Birthday presents for friends or family, I bet you run your tires to (almost) the end....why don't you run them to the (actual) end.....why don't you take that additional money and send it to the government to lower the deficit? How about music? You could listen to the radio more often instead. How about your cable or internet bill? Why don't you spend a one time fee of $400.00 and put up an antennae and get local channels only? Work a deal with your nearest neighbors....get a wireless and let them all tap in to your signal for 1/5th the monthly cost (you could probably make a buck off it and send even that excess to the feds). How about TP? Use 3 sheets instead of 5? The extra savings could go to the feds. Yeah? No? Oh....ok. I don't, but I also don't spend time talking about how the government needs to raise my taxes, either. If he wants to pay more taxes, he should fucking do it. Why does he need the IRS to do it to him?

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 6:02:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn ... I was speaking of the greater benefit of our legal and regulatory infrastructure derived by some more than others, and that this was addressing the question of how much some should contribute to that. Nothing to do with what others should not pay. And this was exactly the topic I was addressing as well. [:D] Firm

DomYngBlk -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 6:41:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn That was not the implication whatsoever, nor did anything that I said come even close to what you are saying. Sorry, but your misreading of what another says in order to argue with your fabrication of what they said might '"work for you" on some occasions, but it certainly won't work in this instance. There is always "more" to a statement than just what the individual making it wishes to espouse. Sometimes, it's just because it's too complex to cover all the details. Sometimes it's because many of the other issues aren't pertinent to the discussion. And sometimes it's because the individual making the statement just doesn't wish to see or acknowledge that their position may used in ways that don't support their particular ideological view. quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn You read what you want to read, as always. There's logic and then there's politics. All I can say is that you made the wise academic choice there, considering your ability. Since I'm not associated with academia, I reach the conclusion that you have been insufficiently observant, or simply ... again ... mistaken. Firm Lovely words Firm, I hope you don't mind me using it at some later date...

xssve -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 7:52:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools? Well, it is a sticky wicket, I have a child that goes to school in a district that I do not pay taxes in, so I pay for other childrens schooling. In view of my views, I perceive it as paying other chilren to compete with mine. Back in the parochial school bruhaha (including the busing) there was a great deal of rhetoric coming from the folks who represented the folks who wanted that, as exactly that (and they weren't socialists). Yup, it is a sticky wicket when one starts making such arguments as Edywnn is making. Firm He's making a perfectly valid argument that you are deliberately misinterpreting, everyone benefits from public education whether they have kids or not: if you an employer, this is your labor pool, you either have people who can read or write or not, and that creates a chain of cause and effect that eventually reaches the consumer every time you purchase a good or service - it's called the benefits principle, and it's an established concept n economics that everyone benefits from infrastructure spending, including education, but the more money you make, themroe you rely on it - without public education a good half of the businesses in America are not businesses, they are unworkable ideas - the guy at the parts store has to be able read and write at some minimal functional level fer chrissakes, or there is no fucking parts store. Take away the infrastuctre, and tell me what there is a market for besides oil lamps and gardening tools? Infrastructure itself is essentially a subsidy for private enterprise, so what exactly is so unfair about billing them for it? It's not some commie plot, it's the cost of doing business, period. Everybody stops paying taxes today, by next week, the unemployment rate will be close to 99%. Within a year, this country would be Somalia.

xssve -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 8:02:07 AM)
And I'm a capitalist baby, I have rentals, and half my tenants are in arrears - these aren't deadbeats, they're working people who already have to choose between food and car insurance, and now they've had had their hours cut back or been laid off because of your naive ideologies that don't work, have never worked, are never going to work, because they're bullshit. How can you not know that? This conservative bullshit is not good for anybody, it's really gone past the point where it's even funny anymore, you need to fucking wake up and grow up, 'cause as I said before, shit may roll downhill, but it rises.

Edwynn -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/21/2011 8:59:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn ... I was speaking of the greater benefit of our legal and regulatory infrastructure derived by some more than others, and that this was addressing the question of how much some should contribute to that. Nothing to do with what others should not pay. And this was exactly the topic I was addressing as well. [:D] Firm Sure you were. Absolutely. Uh huh.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/25/2011 7:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Epytropos I don't get why Buffet doesn't just write the IRS a giant check if he really thinks he should be paying more taxes. I have to think they'd cash it in a heartbeat. Just take a giant check like the Publisher's Clearing House has, write down the biggest number he can think of, and take it down there. The same reason very few others do. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Which is....? Do you write an extra check to the feds every year? I bet you buy coffee every day, or smokes, go to a bar and have drinks occasionally, buy flowers or cards for friends, cat toys, Christmas or Birthday presents for friends or family, I bet you run your tires to (almost) the end....why don't you run them to the (actual) end.....why don't you take that additional money and send it to the government to lower the deficit? How about music? You could listen to the radio more often instead. How about your cable or internet bill? Why don't you spend a one time fee of $400.00 and put up an antennae and get local channels only? Work a deal with your nearest neighbors....get a wireless and let them all tap in to your signal for 1/5th the monthly cost (you could probably make a buck off it and send even that excess to the feds). How about TP? Use 3 sheets instead of 5? The extra savings could go to the feds. Yeah? No? Oh....ok. Why the hell would I send the government extra money when they cant manage the money they have now? Look at the 999 plan. Fucking tax cuts for the rich, screw everyone else. Think maybe that is what Warren is bitching about? [image]local://upfiles/502828/3500850E305F46639858C556AD77CB59.jpg[/image] Exactly my point hon. By the way...the only flaw with Cain's 9/9/9 plan is...he exempts capital gains. Why? Because he believes that investment income is what grows America (housing, construction, etc.). He's absolutely right...but..... Income is income...whether you shovel shit or shovel dirt to build buildings...dropping the capital gains tax to 9% would be an unbelievable benefit to those who earn their income from investments (which, by the way is well over 60% of my income). I'd be thrilled with lowering my rate to 9%. Exempting capital gains from the taxation rolls is pure stupidity. (It'd also {by inclusion} raise the govt. take by over 17%, which would ameliorate everyone who says the gig favors the rich...it would immediately raise the rich"'s taxes by 4% over what they pay now). The important thing is...everyone should pay something....today...51.73% pay nothing. That just fucking ain't right.

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/25/2011 10:27:27 PM)
Its no longer the 999 plan... for some its the 909 plan... depending on income. Cain back peddles so fast because he opens mouth and inserts foot, claiming everything "moves too fast". He wouldnt have to worry about his lies and covering his ass on the quick if he didnt tell any lies to begin with.

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/25/2011 10:34:21 PM)
quote: The important thing is...everyone should pay something....today...51.73% pay nothing. That just fucking ain't right. 51.73% of the population holds only 2.5% of the wealth in this country. That just aint right no matter how you look at it.

mnottertail -> RE: Look! The much vaunted St. Wrinklemeat is bowing to James Baker!!!! (10/26/2011 8:26:06 AM)
Oh, this is fucking embarrassing for our nation!!!!!! quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl [image]local://upfiles/502828/3500850E305F46639858C556AD77CB59.jpg[/image]

Edwynn -> RE: Look! The much vaunted St. Wrinklemeat is bowing to James Baker!!!! (10/27/2011 12:40:21 AM)
If you want to talk about embarrassing ... I'm not the biggest fan of the current president and his actions, but, just to take account of things here ... The former president: "you got sum hot dawgs or somethin'? My daddy didn't like broccoli, but he said he like pork rinds, and advertised it for purpose of PR to get elected an' all, but, I just don't like broccoli or pork rinds neither, an' I don't lie as good as my daddy did . Not about pork rinds or WMD neither." "Got some hot dawgs or sumthin'? I'm hungry." I somehow suspect that a conversation with Obama might go differently than that, and that it might actually be he even more so than Michelle that would pin me up against the wall to get my recipe for my special oil and vinegar dressing or tabouli mix, assuming I could have served them that and hooked them thereby, aside discussing Chinese domestic economy and stuff. I got a paper for them. Either way.

joether -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/27/2011 3:22:44 AM)
The curious part that doesnt come up in these discussion on Mr. Cain's plan is the 'end user tax'. How many businesses right now 'eat' the taxes in order to 'pass on the savings' to the customer? Not that many, in fact, a rarity. If anything, they call it an 'expense' on the books, which in turn is calcuated into the end price. So is the end user really paying 9% sales tax? Lets just say a gallon of milk costs $2.50 (for the sake of the arguement). Mr. Cain's plan is based on the idea that AFTER his 9-9-9 Plan is put into motion (see my first post on the first page of this thread), that $2.50 gallon of milk will not be $2.50. No, the company that produces it now has to pay for additional costs, thus raising the price of milk to about $2.63. And THAT total, is the one the end user pays on, NOT the $2.50. That's just a gallon of milk. I believe someone gave a post earlier on a Mr. Smith paying $800/month on groceries. That number is based on the CURRENT taxing scheme, NOT the Mr. Cain tax plan. Do any of you foolishly believe Mr. Smith's grocery bill will be a mere $800/month with Mr. Cain's bill? Its hard to say what that amount would be (it wont be 9% addition to $800), but it does make for a curious debate. That's just for groceries. How about that gas for the cars? Do any of the conservatives on here REALLY and STILL think the gas companies WOULDN'T try to use this as an excuse to raise the price of gas by $16%? They have to make profit, right? Likewise, the information from the Cain Camp has been so vague its hard to predict with any real objectivity on whether his plan wouldn't cost American more debt, because the budget was further increased on the 'deficit side' rather than towards the 'balanced budget' side. I'm not talking about budget cuts (that's a whole different thread). Just on whether the Cain Plan is based on reality or is just a gimmick.

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