Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan

Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (Full Version)

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Masta808 -> Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 3:55:51 PM)
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/warren-buffett-likely-pay-no-income-taxes-under-215446867.html The Koch Brothers, Ed Conar, WARREN BUFFET and other job creators will likely pay 0 taxes under Cain 9-9-9 plan. They should make a rule to explicit targeted at Warren Buffet funder of Occupy Wall Street to pay more taxes since he wants to instead following the law and taxes like everyone else does. He should not be playing by the same rules as everyone else does, thats no fair.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/warren-buffett-likely-pay-no-income-taxes-under-215446867.html The Koch Brothers, Ed Conar, WARREN BUFFET and other job creators will likely pay 0 taxes under Cain 9-9-9 plan. They should make a rule to explicit targeted at Warren Buffet funder of Occupy Wall Street to pay more taxes since he wants to instead following the law and taxes like everyone else does. He should not be playing by the same rules as everyone else does, thats no fair. So ... Warren Buffet doesn't purchase anything ... or any services that would be taxed ... nor has any income at all? I wonder how he eats? Geez, Who knew he was such an ascetic? Firm

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:26:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Masta808 http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/warren-buffett-likely-pay-no-income-taxes-under-215446867.html The Koch Brothers, Ed Conar, WARREN BUFFET and other job creators will likely pay 0 taxes under Cain 9-9-9 plan. They should make a rule to explicit targeted at Warren Buffet funder of Occupy Wall Street to pay more taxes since he wants to instead following the law and taxes like everyone else does. He should not be playing by the same rules as everyone else does, thats no fair. So ... Warren Buffet doesn't purchase anything ... or any services that would be taxed ... nor has any income at all? I wonder how he eats? Geez, Who knew he was such an ascetic? Firm Thanks...I saw this header and I thought "are you fucking NUTS?" Of course he'd pay taxes....I'm not sure if I care for Herman Cain, and frankly, I've run the numbers and they need to be closer to 11/11/11 but even at that, the wealthy would indeed pay (vastly) more (because they can afford to buy shit that costs 8 kabillion dollars and an 11% hit ain't gonna stop them from doing so), and the poor would pay a little, but at the end of the year (when they do their taxes...AND retain all their receipts), they'll get money back on the federal take (against the federal sales tax thingie). In the end, it'll be a vastly fairer tax on ALL....and ALL is who should be paying taxes. However, I will add that, as someone who pays well over 75% of his taxes in capital gains income taxes...there should be no exclusion for capital gains. Income is income. Sell dope, cars, real estate...whatever...if you make a profit...under any circumstances...you owe the feds a piece of it. Period.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:28:50 PM)
Agreed. The catch of the OP's article, is the term "income" tax. Firm

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:35:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Agreed. The catch of the OP's article, is the term "income" tax. Firm Indeed......need a new definition of income. Seems to me, income is income, regardless of where or how it's derived. Make more than it originally cost you....that's income. Hell...a 9 (or 11)% tax on capital gains would be a sweet deal for those of us who make their "income" from same.

kalikshama -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:40:56 PM)
"Using information Buffett has released about his total taxable income and his effective tax rate under the current system, Melissa Labant, an accountant with the American Institute of CPAs, said that the bulk of Buffett's taxable income came from capital gains. Cain's 9-9-9 plan would eliminate taxes on capital gains. According to Labant's rough calculation, Buffett's ordinary income, outside of capital gains, comes to around $4.9 million. At Cain's proposed rate of 9 percent, Buffett would pay around $440,000 in income tax--1.1 percent of the approximately $40 million in taxable income, after deducting for charitable giving and local taxes, Buffett earned last year. Buffett's returns show he made $62.9 million last year, but his taxable income was around $39.8 million. He has said the roughly $23 million difference is thanks to charitable contributions and local taxes. "Last year my federal tax bill—the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf—was $6,938,744," Buffett wrote in an op-ed article in the New York Times in August. "That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income—and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent." A tax rate of 17 percent is significantly higher, of course, than a tax rate of 1 percent. But even a tax rate of 1 percent is likely too high of an estimate, Labant's calculations suggest. Cain's 9-9-9 plan allows individuals to deduct charitable contributions, and Buffett's charitable giving almost certainly exceeded $4.9 million. If that's the case, as it appears, then Buffett would have paid no income taxes at all last year under the plan, Labant said."

FirmhandKY -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 5:44:25 PM)
If you have no deductions of any kind, then he would pay more income tax. Firm

Owner59 -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:24:49 PM)
And families earning under 50 grand would pay about two grand a year MORE. Heard a WSJ guys say that today on NPR. Rehm said she would be interviewing Cain in a few days and would ask him about that. The WSJ guy was pretty sharp.Said that Cain doesn`t talk details much about it but often mentions how would scrap the "old tax system", under the 999 plan. He said that`s why cons are liking the 999 plan.The guys just diss`n taxes..........wow,that`s novel and new.......[8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:24:54 PM)
~FR Second, Mr. Cain would eliminate all taxes on profits earned by multinational corporations outside the United States. It’s hard to know the impact of this provision, but according to Martin Sullivan, an economist with Tax Analysts, the 50 largest corporations in the United States generated half of their profits in other countries. The actual benefit of Mr. Cain’s proposal would be much greater to many of them, because, according to Mr. Sullivan, while some of these 50 companies have no foreign operations, others derive 100 percent of their gross profits in foreign countries. In 2010 these included Philip Morris, Pfizer and Abbott Laboratories.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:31:45 PM)
A side note; Last year I lost a SHITLOAD of money....this year I'll lose a little less....I'm still wearing size 38 jeans. I'm by no stretch one of the "wealthy" but I know this....in a few years, with cost cutting that we should have done when things were fat, my companies will be doing well...and the 9/9/9 will actually save me money if it doesn't include capital gains taxes. If it does...it'll cost me about 4% more than I've paid in my highest taxable years. But I'm okay with that because....I was making out like a bandit thanks to the capital gains taxes. All "income" should be the same. Capital gains is income.

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:32:30 PM)
~FR Sorry, I meant to post more with the link.... Veterans of tax reform attempts in the United States know reform is very difficult and time-consuming even once. If the Fair Tax is a good idea, Mr. Cain ought to just do it, without confusing the issue with his unnecessary and highly complicated 9-9-9 plan. After all, one of the prime selling points of the Fair Tax is its simplicity, and the 9-9-9 plan is far from that. Because so little detail exists, it’s hard to do either a proper revenue estimate or distributional analysis of the Cain plan. It’s obvious, however, that Phase 1 would represent a huge tax cut for the wealthy at a time when federal revenues are at a historical low as a share of the gross domestic product and the economy’s fundamental problem is a lack of aggregate demand. Thus the Cain plan would increase the budget deficit without doing anything to stimulate demand, because rich people can already spend as much as they want and are unlikely to spend more even if their taxes are abolished. The poor and the middle class might increase their spending if they could keep more of their earnings, but they will unquestionably pay more under Phase 2 of the Cain plan. With no tax on capital gains, the rich would pay almost nothing, while elimination of all deductions and credits, as well as imposition of a national sales tax, must necessarily raise taxes on everyone else, especially those not now paying income taxes. At a minimum, the Cain plan is a distributional monstrosity. The poor would pay more while the rich would have their taxes cut, with no guarantee that economic growth will increase and good reason to believe that the budget deficit will increase. Even allowing for the poorly thought through promises routinely made on the campaign trail, Mr. Cain’s tax plan stands out as exceptionally ill conceived. Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/herman-cains-misleading-pitch-for-the-999-plan/2011/10/12/gIQAHszPgL_blog.html

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:35:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 And families earning under 50 grand would pay about two grand a year MORE. Heard a WSJ guys say that today on NPR. And we need to believe them because they're liberals by any definition (funded almost entirely by the feds). Rehm said she would be interviewing Cain in a few days and would ask him about that. The WSJ guy was pretty sharp.Said that Cain doesn`t talk details much about it but often mentions how would scrap the "old tax system", under the 999 plan. It would completely disappear. Go away....there would be no need for the IRS as (most) taxes would be collected at the local level...just exactly like sales taxes are today. He said that`s why cons are liking the 999 plan.The guys just diss`n taxes..........wow,that`s novel and new.......[8\|]

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:37:05 PM)
The link I posted wasnt by a liberal and he is saying basically the same thing.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR Sorry, I meant to post more with the link.... Veterans of tax reform attempts in the United States know reform is very difficult and time-consuming even once. If the Fair Tax is a good idea, Mr. Cain ought to just do it, without confusing the issue with his unnecessary and highly complicated 9-9-9 plan. After all, one of the prime selling points of the Fair Tax is its simplicity, and the 9-9-9 plan is far from that. It has its faults...but in its core...it's a simple, fair, equitable and even handed tax that everyone would pay. That's the problem with the tax system today....only a few (less than half) pay any (federal) taxes with the exception of SSI. Because so little detail exists, it’s hard to do either a proper revenue estimate or distributional analysis of the Cain plan. It’s obvious, however, that Phase 1 would represent a huge tax cut for the wealthy at a time when federal revenues are at a historical low as a share of the gross domestic product and the economy’s fundamental problem is a lack of aggregate demand. Thus the Cain plan would increase the budget deficit without doing anything to stimulate demand, because rich people can already spend as much as they want and are unlikely to spend more even if their taxes are abolished. The poor and the middle class might increase their spending if they could keep more of their earnings, but they will unquestionably pay more under Phase 2 of the Cain plan. With no tax on capital gains, the rich would pay almost nothing, while elimination of all deductions and credits, as well as imposition of a national sales tax, must necessarily raise taxes on everyone else, especially those not now paying income taxes. At a minimum, the Cain plan is a distributional monstrosity. The poor would pay more while the rich would have their taxes cut, with no guarantee that economic growth will increase and good reason to believe that the budget deficit will increase. Even allowing for the poorly thought through promises routinely made on the campaign trail, Mr. Cain’s tax plan stands out as exceptionally ill conceived. Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/herman-cains-misleading-pitch-for-the-999-plan/2011/10/12/gIQAHszPgL_blog.html

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:39:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The link I posted wasn't by a liberal and he is saying basically the same thing. NPR is however.

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:43:53 PM)
quote: It has its faults...but in its core...it's a simple, fair, equitable and even handed tax that everyone would pay. That's the problem with the tax system today....only a few (less than half) pay any (federal) taxes with the exception of SSI Cains plan is fair?

tazzygirl -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:45:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The link I posted wasn't by a liberal and he is saying basically the same thing. NPR is however. Well, since you wont believe NPR because they are liberal... guess you will have to believe Bartlett who isnt liberal...

Owner59 -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 6:54:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 And families earning under 50 grand would pay about two grand a year MORE. Heard a WSJ guys say that today on NPR. And we need to believe them because they're liberals by any definition (funded almost entirely by the feds). Rehm said she would be interviewing Cain in a few days and would ask him about that. The WSJ guy was pretty sharp.Said that Cain doesn`t talk details much about it but often mentions how would scrap the "old tax system", under the 999 plan. It would completely disappear. Go away....there would be no need for the IRS as (most) taxes would be collected at the local level...just exactly like sales taxes are today. He said that`s why cons are liking the 999 plan.The guys just diss`n taxes..........wow,that`s novel and new.......[8\|] Rehm was interviewing several journalists,the one I mentioned being from the Wall Street Journal. They all agreed it a gimmick. That the rich would pay less and middle and poor folks,including 16 million retired Americans,would pay more.The WSJ guys used a much more honest term,"tax burden",ie,what folks actually pay after all the deductions,fees,etc. There`s no secret supply of money that`s just going to appear out of nothing. 999 = gimmick. Prediction. This 999 plan will be what kills Cain`s chances and it will be other republicans, who kill them.

erieangel -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 8:37:13 PM)
http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2011/10/17/the-cain-9-9-9-plan-how-much-would-the-99-pay/ Time ran the numbers. A family of four earning $50,000 would see their overall federal tax bill RAISED by more than $5,000. Conversely, a family earning around $500,000 would see lower taxes by more than $34,000. The savings increase exponentially for those with even larger incomes. 999 is nothing but a gimmick. As people learn more about this and how it will ultimately hurt the middle class, those middle class workers Cain supporters will go elsewhere.

joether -> RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in under Cain's 999 plan (10/17/2011 9:37:58 PM)
Time for a reality check.... Lets assume Mr. Cain has a plan that is as mapped out (if not better) than President Obama's A.A.C.A (the original form). The bill has to STILL PASS CONGRESSS, in order for Mr. Cain to sign anything into law (unless the Republicans hold majorities in both the House & Senate). Reality rears its ugly head when we as Americans simply look at US History for the past three years. One major thing that happen was the passing of the American Affordable Care Act (A.A.C.A.) of 2010 (that's 'Obamacare' to you illerates). The final bill looks NOTHING like the bill President Obama first put on the table back in 2009 (14 months before it was passed in March of 2010). It was met with HEAVY Republican opposition, and they did indeed try everything on the books to stall and stop the bill from becoming a reality. When those measures failed, they tried (and succeeded) in watering down the bill. Now, what are the chances that Mr. Cain's bill gets pass through the House and Senate WITHOUT the Democrats doing the same stuff (assuming again, they are in the minority of both branchs of Congress)? Or watering it down? Or adding regulations, concepts and such that basically create a tax system that is far more unstable, encumbering and useless when compared to the current income taxes? So we can debate the 'pros' and 'cons' of how a middle class family of four, making $60K/year will handle the total tax burden. Or we could ask ourselves the likelihood of such a bill passing through Congress....UNALTERED (an exactly as Mr. Cain has it written)? That's reality folks! Because if Democrats hold the Senate and win back the House, do any of you believe Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 Plan will be passed?

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