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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 2:06:01 PM   
iliv2servher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: knl4myplzr

I originally posted this in reply to Fergus in the "Low Income Doms" thread...but it seemed a complex enough subject to warrant its own subject...

Are women really "hardwired" to prefer men who can be "providers"?  Do men prefer to be the financially/professionally more established partner?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

Being poor is not a crime. I believe far more satisfaction is derived from a good relationship (regardless of how that is defined).

That being said ....

There are some universal truths not about Doms vs. subs but more about men vs. women. We are each hard wired (in BROAD generalities) different;y and attracted to different things.

Women (again, gross generalies) are attracted to one who can provide. Either a physically strong, and or financially secure mate speaks to that primordial desire.

fergus


Just last week there was a TV program on PBS that was produced in the UK by BBC that dealt with what attracts women to men and vice-versa.  In one of the segments, they took a very average-looking chap dressed in T-shirt and jeans, put him in a department store window, then asked various women if they would go out on a date with him.  All said, "no."

Then they took the same guy and dressed him in clothes that suggested that he was financially successful.  Same guy.  Well, at least 25% of the women polled said that they would consider a date with him.

They also polled a series of men about what physical characteristic they look for in a woman using a computer program that would allow the operator to change the physical aspects of a woman's body to those which appeal more to him.  In the majority of cases, men manipulated the program to make the waist smaller and the hips wider and rounder (in other words, an hourglass figure).  (Wide hips is an indication of a woman's child-bearing ability.)

I think this just goes to prove that women are consciously or unconsciously attracted to men who they perceive as good providers, and men are attracted to women for reproductive reasons. 

We all seem to be biologically predisposed to choosing a partner who would best fit the needs for the survival of our blood line.


< Message edited by iliv2servher -- 5/25/2006 2:20:41 PM >

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 2:06:52 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: knl4myplzr
Are women really "hardwired" to prefer men who can be "providers"?


I would imagine that some are, and would equally imagine that some are attracted to intelligent men, who very often happen to have good jobs because they are intelligent.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 2:07:18 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
The deeper end of the pool is less crowded, and much less shallow.


Well said, Proprietrix.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 2:24:02 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		All I can say to this thread is that then I must not be a woman cause I'm more attracted to artistic geeks who rarely make much money.

Or to quote my father: "You could find a rich man to fall in love with, you know" and my response was to look at him, laugh and say "Probably not".

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 2:41:10 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: knl4myplzr
Are women really "hardwired" to prefer men who can be "providers"?


I would imagine that some are, and would equally imagine that some are attracted to intelligent men, who very often happen to have good jobs because they are intelligent.


You are making an assumption that quality of job and money, equals intelligence. When it comes to intelligence my younger brother is the intellectual idiot of the family. It hasn't stopped him becoming financially the most successful by a long way with his ability to smell money under a pile of crap and by the way, the most successful with women. Though he isn't dumb enough to put his success with women (just about all the ones I've met have been more intelligent than him) down to his intelligence and good loooks. Big house, fat wallet and luxury car, is his reasoning behind his success with the fairer sex.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 3:28:52 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		I didnt seem to be hardwired at age 21 when I met and married my husband who was 15 years older than I. I married on a promise of future success, a man who could never be successful in anything. Sad really. I discovered he was and is a lousy provider in every way shape and form. Like the article said, I married down. And that's hard to do as a college student. I was just inexperienced and thought all things were possible.

I am an idealist. And raised during the height of the feminist agenda. With my fist in the air, and the words, I-am-woman-hear-me-roar on my lips, I marched confidently into a brick wall.

I was also above money in my early idealistic youth. It took 20 years of never getting ahead before I looked outside my marriage for a different type of man. And I didnt look for an older man who would provide for me. I stumbled upon a younger man 8 years my junior instead. Thats a 23 year age difference Ive gone through.

I seem to have made some sort of wide 90 degree turn.  So I guess my story would say that our needs change as we go thru life. Theres no one right way to walk thru this world. Im still learning as I go. You cant go by a book sometimes.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 3:58:02 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Its cute watching the mating rituals of budgerigars. The male birds put food in the mouth of the female birds, whoever gives her the most food becomes the mate. This is cause when she has her little eggs she wont leave the nest and needs to know who will be the best provider.

Human beings are a little more complex than birds and their assessment of "needs" may be more complicated..but I think it all comes down to the same thing...when choosing a mate..."who is gonna provide my needs"..does come into play. Perhaps we as human beings are at a disadvantage to birds, cause a lot of the time what we "think" we need is very much different to what we actually "need" ....probably the reason for so many divorces, separations and short term relationships these days.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 5/25/2006 3:59:24 PM >

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 5:25:35 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I would imagine that some are, and would equally imagine that some are attracted to intelligent men, who very often happen to have good jobs because they are intelligent.


You are making an assumption that quality of job and money, equals intelligence.


I made no assumptions ... you made them for me, and applied your own meaning.
 
I also never mentioned money, and in truth, many people do not equate a good job with a high paying job.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 5:33:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		Well, don't rule someone out JUST because he's wealthy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i knew from past experience that i'd very likely never be able to feel bonded as i needed with a wealthy Man.  Have met so many, and respected none.  Not one. 

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/25/2006 5:43:55 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: redpetals

yes..we are the nurturers of our race..our natural inclination is to be sure our babies will be fed and protected..you can fight it all you want but we are all
creatures of this earth..given direction by our sexual needs..
maybe superior in our capacity for ruin..
but we are animals none the less.


I have never been financially dependent on anyone, man or woman.  I have worked for what I have.  What I own may be s**t, but it is MY s**t.   When I look for companionship, I want someone who wants to be with me; the cost of the outing does not decide the enjoyment factor. 

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 5:25:05 AM   
knl4myplzr


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline 		WOW!  There was a lot of posting on this since yesterday! 

So far though, with very rare exception (such as Amayos...post #8) I notice that the focus has been nearly exclusively on whether women like "provider males" ...and hardly any mention as to the articles' supposition that men may find successful women offputting/threatening/whatever.  That not only is it possible that women prefer to "marry up" but that MEN may prefer to "marry down".

So, I'll be more direct...Men...sub or dom...are you threatened if a woman makes more than you...which as Amayos says, is a significant indicator of her power???  I had an ex who once said to this, "Well, it depends on how MUCH more...50%...maybe not...double what I make?  More? Much more?"

Here's a portion of Amayos' post (by the way - I absolutely agree, I think that both sexes should strive to make best use of our resources, financial, mental, or otherwise...I'd hope that's common sense, of course):

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I will venture simply to answer your direct question:

quote:

ORIGINAL: knl4myplzr
Are women really "hardwired" to prefer men who can be "providers"?  Do men prefer to be the financially/professionally more established partner?


Likewise, males do indeed seem somewhat inclined to be the protectors / providers, and being the competitive creatures they are, feel awkwardly ineffectual when a female outdoes them in the acquisition of resources and conquests. This is a feeling many men will seldom openly admit to, but it's there, toying with their egos and erections to one degree or another. This can even be present is so-called "submissive" men.

Of course, one should not dismiss the obvious; that regardless of sex, it's a fundamental law of human psychology and power to keep others dependant upon you. From a dominant point of view—understanding how money and "power" is so favored in social status—it is important that we all, male or female, hone our resources, intellect and wealth to compliment the convictions and persona we were inspired to have.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 6:31:56 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not at all threatened by a woman who makes more money than me. I was married for about twenty years and my wife's career in the City was flying while I worked on my sculpture and painting in my studio. I had a couple of successful years where I made more than her but on the whole I was way behind her. In the end it was her career that came between us because we just didn't see each other and for all intents and purposes we ceased to have a relationship but the end was nothing to do with being threatened.

The mother of my second daughter is my dealer and very much has power over me in financial ways but it doesn't stop her knowing her place when we meet up to play instead of business. I certainly wouldn't stay with someone for money. I'd rather starve, life is far too short to play safe for material reasons. We don't live in the third world where life is precarious. You can always get by in the west.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 6:42:52 AM   
spectreandnectre


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline 		i would like to say that as far as me searching for a $ Dom thats not what i am all about.  I would be with a man who collected aluminum cans off the side of the roe as long as He treated me like i deserve to be treated.
 
my only stipulation that i should add is unless there is a physical reason i want to be with a man who at least does work who makes an effort to work.  i don't like laziness.
 
i know many women who are the exact opposite and i also know men who are looking for the free ride too.
 
But this is only my view on the subject.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 7:09:39 AM   
mathiasdomm


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		Amayos,

You put the nail on the head.  My sentiments, expressed much more eloquently than I could have hoped.

-m

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 8:16:58 AM   
mathiasdomm


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		In regards to the question of " do men prefer to marry down?"  all I can do is share my experience. 

I've had three year long + relationships since I've be on my own, physically and financially and they all had big d/s components.  ( these are not in any particular order)
1) a big city doctor's daughter, well heeled, well bred, prep school girl. 
2.) a professor twice my age with a real job and salary
3.) an art student from a home with two 9-5 corporate parents.

Each of them were heavily influenced by money, especially the break ups. 

The doctor's daughter went over real well until I didn't get the Rhodes scholarship.  Straight up, no lie.  I got the "we appreciate your interest" letter on thursday and she was sleeping with her LSU baseball player ex on Sunday. 

The professor was a good deal until she started thinking that I was using her for a free ride.  I couldn't keep up with the forty + academic set financially.  I gave it all I had, but I put my money in groceries for dinners, gifts, toys.  Things I consider to be relationship basics.  She was footing the entertainment and travel.  It snow balled.  When she wanted to go to dinner at the swanky places, she'd have to pay.  So when she started talking about "I think you're free loading", we couldn't go out any more.  And then I never took her anywhere. 

The art student was the only one that didn't fall apart because of lack of money.  Money was related, but only tangentially.  I spend a lot of time making money, thinking about money.  She said we didn't need that much, that we didn't have to have a BMW, that being comfortable didn't necessarily mean being rich.  But ultimately, it was about how I spent my time.  I spend a lot of time hustling (my vague term for making and managing success, and money works into the thing), and she thought I should be doing more creative things, things that have higher values than money.  Ultimately, we decided that our values were too different for the thing to work.  She was the only one who knew that she didn't want children. 

So, to answer the big question... Women who had more access to money haven't worked out real well for me.  It's not because I'm intimidated about it, it's because they stop and think, and I'm generalizing and paraphrasing here , " Can an up and comer take care of me in the fashion that I'm used to being taken care of?"  In each example, something I've done indicated to them that I wasn't a great bet.  So right now, the upper crust folks perceive me as a gamble.  So I'm thinking that it's probably going to be in my best interest to lay off the wealthy girls.  I didn't get into these things to free ride or because they had money.  We were all mutually attracted.  I'm still not in it for the money and don't plan on ever getting in that way.  But what are you going to do?  Apparently I'm running in a ritzy circle. The women who want the kind of lifestyle I want seem to already have it and they don't want to play on a permanent basis.  So, yeah, I don't feel like I've got a lot of immediate power in this situation.  I can make decisions that are going to give me a better quality of life, but those only pay off in the long term.  They're not much good for keeping me warm tonight.

Are women doing themselves a disservice by looking for providers?  Depends entirely on the woman's perception of necessity.       

-m      

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 9:00:57 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Rich or poor, for me it's what he did to get there that counts.

If he's poor because he's too lazy to work = total turnoff.

If he's poor because he's a struggling artist following his dreams, or he's working hard to start his own business, or he's passionately dedicated to fighting for land rights for gay whales, etc = definitely an interesting guy.

If he's poor because his company cheated him and dumped him, despite all his hard work = give him a try for sure.

On the other hand...

If he's rich because he's selfish, egocentric and a total user = no way.

If he's rich because he inherited it, and he's never done a day's honest work in his life = total no.

If he's earned it, worked hard and honestly = definite yes.

It's not where he is that counts, it's how he got there.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 9:31:41 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, those experiences do sound frustrating, but I'd just repeat what I said to pink: don't RULE OUT someone just because they're wealthy.  Be up-front about your financial situation, and at that point, anyone who still gets involved with you has gotten fair warning.  Don't forget that all those women who left you over money lost out too.  There aren't a ton of great single wealthy males.  It's not a big pool--and many of them don't want to get hitched.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mathiasdomm

So I'm thinking that it's probably going to be in my best interest to lay off the wealthy girls.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 11:36:08 AM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knl4myplzr

WOW!  There was a lot of posting on this since yesterday! 

So far though, with very rare exception (such as Amayos...post #8) I notice that the focus has been nearly exclusively on whether women like "provider males" ...and hardly any mention as to the articles' supposition that men may find successful women offputting/threatening/whatever.  That not only is it possible that women prefer to "marry up" but that MEN may prefer to "marry down".

So, I'll be more direct...Men...sub or dom...are you threatened if a woman makes more than you...which as Amayos says, is a significant indicator of her power???  I had an ex who once said to this, "Well, it depends on how MUCH more...50%...maybe not...double what I make?  More? Much more?"



My lizard brain seems to work a little differently, it seems.  I would be much less bothered by being partnered with a woman who makes more money than me, than by being partnered with a woman who is a lot taller than me.  To the extent the provider/protector dynamic exists in me, I feel it more acutely in a physical sense.  When I'm out with a woman, I like to feel I'm in a protective position for her, physically.  I get much more uneasy when the woman is a lot taller/bigger than when she's a lot richer.  Maybe it's cuz I'm not a particularly big guy to start with (5'8, 160ish).  Who knows.

The money thing has never seemed like a big deal for me.  I've always viewed it as something that's necessary but not worth ordering one's life around.  I'm far from fabulously wealthy, but I've been lucky that my education and talents have been such that I've always held good jobs and never really worried much about it.  If I were to meet someone who was a lot wealthier, my reaction would be great, let's go to Tahiti.

But I'll be honest and also say, I've never been in this position.  The women I've been involved with were either equal in financial status, or made less money, to greater & lesser degrees.  So maybe I'm unconsciously selecting for women of lower financial status to start with and therefore the whole thing is off my radar.


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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 11:48:21 AM   
SweetEscravo


Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking historically, I think the vast majority of women are attracted to money and power.  In the past, the best thing a woman could do for herself was marry a provider....thus certain personality and physical traits have become popular...strong chest, arms, ability to care for himself, successful with career...However, in contemporary society where anyone can provide for themselves no matter their gender or traits, women are able to decide what they personally want in a man rather than what is hard-wired into them.  But I think that the majority of women are still attracted to that kind of man in some ways.

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RE: GENERALITY: Are women biologically attracted to $/... - 5/26/2006 1:52:12 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Though he isn't dumb enough to put his success with women (just about all the ones I've met have been more intelligent than him) down to his intelligence and good loooks. Big house, fat wallet and luxury car, is his reasoning behind his success with the fairer sex.
Any chance his sucess with women has to do with also treating them with kindness, an open heart and respect?   I think it's more than a little mean spirited for a man to say his brother is an idiot who's not lovable/likeable except for the fact that he has money.  
I know plenty of men of little means who do very well with women, because they tend to be strong physically and emotionally, yet gentle with their women.  M

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