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Negotiation - how far does one take it? - 10/19/2004 11:36:04 PM   
susannah


Posts: 79
Joined: 10/19/2004
Status: offline 		What is usually considered "negotiable" during the initial Negotiation process in a long-term (or hope to be long-term, as opposed to "sceneing" )D/s Dom/sub relationship? It can be more than bdsm stuff - if necessary - right? I know I don't love canes, but if my partner did, I'd do it to make them happy...but it's probably just as important for two people to have the same idea of what constitutes a "romantic" relationship, isn't it, if they are unsure, or want to "clarify" how the other person will act?

I think some subs feel it isn't their place to bring up these things. But if not at the beginning, then when? Are they going to spend a lot of time with someone they are perhaps incompatible with, and then blame themselves for any "failures"? Is the Dom going to blame himself? Hardly seems fair (or smart, or romantically fulfilling) to me.

I think it might be important to find out whether one's partner has the same ideas of what the sub needs as far as romance, as well as the sub finding out what the Dom needs here(some Doms think flowers and door opening is a 'great way to Dom', others think it makes them look like a wuss).

I am new to these boards, and last night, someone posed an interesting question about what to do if a Dom's and a sub's need for "romance" conflict (meaning, the Dom opening doors for a sub, maybe giving her flowers once in awhile, when the Dom isn't inclined in that direction).

I think some people think, that if the "chemistry" is right, that these things will "just happen" naturally in the relationship. Well, what if they don't? Should expectations like this be brought up in an initial negotiation process? Or if they need to be, is one negotiating with the wrong person to begin with? Rather than the relationship being given an extra chance at "failing"? Isn't saying "I like flowers, please bring me some once in awhile?" at least as important as stating one likes flogging, etc.? If these things aren't brought up at all, and are left to chance, and either party is disappointed, isn't it "correctable" (can't they "re-negotiate", if they feel like it, the terms of their relationship)? I am sure opinions are varied about this. Whaddya think, ya'll? Thanks for sharing an opinion. - Susannah

< Message edited by susannah -- 10/20/2004 12:02:32 AM >
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RE: Negotiation - how far does one take it? - 10/20/2004 2:14:33 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		What is usually considered "negotiable" during the initial Negotiation process in a long-term (or hope to be long-term, as opposed to "sceneing" )D/s Dom/sub relationship? It can be more than bdsm stuff - if necessary - right? I know I don't love canes, but if my partner did, I'd do it to make them happy...but it's probably just as important for two people to have the same idea of what constitutes a "romantic" relationship, isn't it, if they are unsure, or want to "clarify" how the other person will act?

Anything is negotiable.. and its all got to be laid out on the table. Time off, dress, define the big and little things because the little things are the things that will drive you nuts.. for example.. he wont let you close the door in the bathroom.. your pee shy.. that's going to create huge problems.. processes for discussion, and re negotiation need to be included. I can not stress how important this is.. and how difficult.. but this is the foundation .. an dif the foundation is weak so to is the house on which it is built.

I think some subs feel it isn't their place to bring up these things. But if not at the beginning, then when?

It absolutely is their place.. would you start a new job and not know how much, how long and what happens if your get hurt on the job?. No that would be considered ill advised and irresponsible. But your going to let someone control your life, sexuality, finances, become involved in risk taking behaviors because some guy makes your panties moist and say NOTHING because your submissive, scared, shy or dont want to upset him.. thats just not being smart



I think some people think, that if the "chemistry" is right, that these things will "just happen" naturally in the relationship.

Yes and that is why the divorce rate is so high.. because people dont deal with the day to day details of a marriage..and that analogy is applicable to D/s relationships as well.. you need to discuss.. discipline, finances, kids, time off, religion, politics, personal expectations, relationship expectations, sex, its a time consuming thing.. but probably the most important thing you will do in your relationship.

Should expectations like this be brought up in an initial negotiation process? YES


Or if they need to be, is one negotiating with the wrong person to begin with? No one is being a responsible, thoughtful, caring and self aware adult.

Rather than the relationship being given an extra chance at "failing"? Isn't saying "I like flowers, please bring me some once in awhile?" at least as important as stating one likes flogging, etc.? If these things aren't brought up at all, and are left to chance, and either party is disappointed, isn't it "correctable" (can't they "re-negotiate", if they feel like it, the terms of their relationship)

re neogiation needs to be included in that discussion.. because then you get down to philosophies... some Dom/mes.. dont .. its that simple... if you don't discuss it up front ..well dang ... thats left up to his/her discretion.. so be thoughtful, take your time.. THINK THINK THINK.. and even if it seems a little thing talk about it.. because disappointments led to regrets and that leads to failures.. and failures lead to a lot of un happy relationships.

? I am sure opinions are varied about this. Whaddya think, ya'll? Thanks for sharing an opinion. - Susannah

I will say this in closing...we deal with life altering choices in that I believe the decision to be in a D/s relationship is profoundly more inherently dangerous emotionally and physically than probably any other choice you will make in your life.. we are talking about unfailing obedience and complete responsibility to someone and for someone.. these are weighty and serious matters.. its all about the rush I know.. but somewhere you have to pay the price for that rush.. and you can either do that at the beginning by taking the time to set up a safety net .. ie a solid contract/negotiation process.... or you can pay the price down the road in tears and heartache.. the choice as in all things is up to you.

So that's my two cents worth

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 10/20/2004 2:27:02 AM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to susannah)
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RE: Negotiation - how far does one take it? - 10/20/2004 2:31:01 AM   
susannah


Posts: 79
Joined: 10/19/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. Your answers make perfect sense to me, and validate (for me) the thinking that both persons' needs should be carefully considered (and accepted, re-worked, or gracefully rejected so both can 'move on') upfront. I know it sounds "sterile" to "negotiate" what could be construed as 'romantic', but it seems important to at least make sure someone is 'on the same page' (though it would be nice if one didn't have to discuss it at all, and everyone was 'telepathic', hehe).

I read (I forget what 'thread') someone who said their hard limits included someone being perpetually late for dates or meetings with them. When they told this to someone they were meeting (who was late for the meeting), that person laughed about it, but then "got it" (good!). - Susannah

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
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