RE: Still Don't Get It?

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SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 9:10:29 AM)
quote: Course you two need to figure out out that it takes LOTS of Soros' and Buffets to cover 75 Trilllion in gmabling bets .... It's the whole or a substantial part of the 1% he doesnt need to cover it, he has hedged his bets so the downside risk is low and he makes out like a bandit if B of A doesnt go bankrupt... I wonder exactly what input he had into B of A pulling this stunt and getting the Fed to agree to cover it.. Imo, Buffett was the architect.. Woah Woah Woah, I made a mistake in using cover apparently... MY bad... What I mean is that VERY SIMPLY STATED, there is no way George Soros and Warren Buffet can post that many derivatives. And while Buffet MAY be involved in the suring up behavior we're seeing but Berhshire Hathaway has to the best of my knowledge stayed away from and been critical of derivatives. And when you own THE MOST EXPENSIVE stock in America (actually could BH2, two of the top 5 stocks in America), you don't bet against it, as BH on the whole is down on derivatives and has spent considerable energy trying to limit their exposure to them. So, could Warren be encouraging the board @ BAC to move the risk to the depositors? It's possible... But it's also kinda moot. The truly germane point is that the very same thing that went tits up om us in the Bush Housing Bubble. Is being done all over again and this time it's an EXPONENTIAL AMOUNT comparatively and there are nowhere near those amounts on deposit. If the Euro TRULY fails, we have no bank to even do a run on. The doors will be closed before we know the problem even exists.These Derivatives have more or more or less secretly existed for a number of years and now, as of last week you and I ... well probably just you, my money was out of BOA and now in a local credit union for whatever PUNY protection that entails.. You and I weren't being used as human shields. And now we are. But that's not a big deal and Warren Buffet is THE architect and we can dismiss it with internet shorthand... Thank GOD. Anyway, in short while it WAS my fault for the wrong choice of a word or two I lead you to mistake the real significance of the event. Sorry

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 9:24:43 AM)
FR Another lib commentator who couldnt make it on his own.

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 9:59:55 AM)
quote: What IS it about your obsession with Buffett? You might be putting irreparable scars on sanity's face as you fight for the attention, keep in mind. Warren Buffet is like the repulican/tea_party/right_wing/neo-con buzzword for everything from anti-christ to ant-them... Their worst nightmare a mega-wealthy guy with something of a social conscience. If they can demonize him they will. But here's a perfect example of how the reasoning fails. You're in a cross-shaped intersection, dead in the middle of it on foot to the right is a tractor rig with a trailer with 37.5 trillion bricks on board about a 1/2 mile away headed toward you at about 100 mph. To your left a tractor rig with a trailer with 37.5 trillion bricks on board about a 1/2 mile away headed toward you at about 100 mph. Behind you is a short stretch of road with an open manhole you can dive into and maybe survive the incredible crash. Infront of you however is Warren Buffet waddling towrd you from 100 feet away at a blinding 2 fps. A sensible person might say "if I don't get in that manhole right now I am fucked". But the neo-con will stand there waiting to claw Buffet's eyes out in hopes of becoming some legendary 'Paul Bunyan" like figure in neo-con history.

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:07:52 AM)
quote: Government must support the wall street gambling. If they don't, we may see massive unemployment, home foreclosures, and a wrecked economy...Oh ! Wait. We already have all of that. Can someone tell me for a certainty that this has been done before anywhere NEAR this scale? Moving the risk into the private deposits. My understanding is that it HAS NOT. The board I go on hosted on havard's network seems to support a consensus of "absolutely not" and the adjectives unprecedented and unheard of are being thrown around. I have not however received a reply as to whether this was done with mortgage derivatives. I suspect not. And certainly not on this scale.

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:17:25 AM)
quote: Government must support the wall street gambling. If they don't, we may see massive unemployment, home foreclosures, and a wrecked economy...Oh ! Wait. We already have all of that. What's funny is... you know when I posted that thing about Bernanke passing Dewey Sq. the other day. I'd received emails all moving from this round robin that goes on between the two sites that seemed so militaristic and kept referring to this 75 T event in vague terms (like they had some intelligence... and I took it like 'these reactions to rumor can really wear on ya'. And I passed om the info .. so when I saw the pictures of the people standing on the side of the road facing the fed with the signs each with one big word saying collectively "We know about the deal you are cutting"... I didn't really connect the dots... I am trying to find the picture online now but it may be lost to the endless throng of continually posted digital pictures. I am going to have me ONE HELL of a coffee table books when all is said and done. [:D]

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:26:18 AM)
quote: Uh, your profile age is 53. Just saying ... Firm uh, I think he means enough of the populace of that demographic for it to be irredeemable intellectually/spiritually/politically His being 53 could simply mean he's one of the few that understand that. A generation can fall off a cliff figuratively leaving a few observers to stand saying "Shit! That was close." and yet the vaster general populous is still gone/fucked/kaput .

tj444 -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:27:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper Woah Woah Woah, I made a mistake in using cover apparently... MY bad... What I mean is that VERY SIMPLY STATED, there is no way George Soros and Warren Buffet can post that many derivatives. And while Buffet MAY be involved in the suring up behavior we're seeing but Berhshire Hathaway has to the best of my knowledge stayed away from and been critical of derivatives. And when you own THE MOST EXPENSIVE stock in America (actually could BH2, two of the top 5 stocks in America), you don't bet against it, as BH on the whole is down on derivatives and has spent considerable energy trying to limit their exposure to them. So, could Warren be encouraging the board @ BAC to move the risk to the depositors? It's possible... But it's also kinda moot. The truly germane point is that the very same thing that went tits up om us in the Bush Housing Bubble. Is being done all over again and this time it's an EXPONENTIAL AMOUNT comparatively and there are nowhere near those amounts on deposit. If the Euro TRULY fails, we have no bank to even do a run on. The doors will be closed before we know the problem even exists.These Derivatives have more or more or less secretly existed for a number of years and now, as of last week you and I ... well probably just you, my money was out of BOA and now in a local credit union for whatever PUNY protection that entails.. You and I weren't being used as human shields. And now we are. But that's not a big deal and Warren Buffet is THE architect and we can dismiss it with internet shorthand... Thank GOD. Anyway, in short while it WAS my fault for the wrong choice of a word or two I lead you to mistake the real significance of the event. Sorry Of course Buffet/Soros can't cover those derivatives, I doubt the US govt can either. Actually, it doesnt much matter to me as it wont be me paying in the end, it will be you and tax paying Americans that will get stuck with the bill. I doubt i will even be here a year from now as i am not planning on staying. Quite frankly, imo the US has screwed itself. Oh well...

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:29:19 AM)
quote: Another lib commentator who couldnt make it on his own. They should take a page out of your book and present 'un-ideas'.

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:42:43 AM)
quote: Of course Buffet/Soros can't cover those derivatives, I doubt the US govt can either. Actually, it doesnt much matter to me as it wont be me paying in the end, it will be you and tax paying Americans that will get stuck with the bill. I doubt i will even be here a year from now as i am not planning on staying. Quite frankly, imo the US has screwed itself. Oh well... So your purpose of even commenting is what? A gloat moment? you're not from America? Cause the notion that someone will bail this out is just plain dumb. America WON'T be bailing out 1/3 of the world's assets.. So since I can't fathom you being that cut off from the reality of things... I'm going to assume you actually live somewhere like new zealand and way back from the road[:D]

tj444 -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:55:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: Of course Buffet/Soros can't cover those derivatives, I doubt the US govt can either. Actually, it doesnt much matter to me as it wont be me paying in the end, it will be you and tax paying Americans that will get stuck with the bill. I doubt i will even be here a year from now as i am not planning on staying. Quite frankly, imo the US has screwed itself. Oh well... So your purpose of even commenting is what? A gloat moment? you're not from America? Cause the notion that someone will bail this out is just plain dumb. America WON'T be bailing out 1/3 of the world's assets.. So since I can't fathom you being that cut off from the reality of things... I'm going to assume you actually live somewhere like new zealand and way back from the road[:D] If the Fed has already agreed to allow them (whatever that amount actually is) to be transferred to B of A and in effect be covered by FDIC, then yeah, that is the US govt/tax payers on the hook for whatever goes bad. My point is that i personally have no effect on the US or its govt or what it does or doesnt do, only Americans have that power. What i do have in my control is where i live, work, play, I was thinking a nice place back from the ocean in turks and caicos actually.. [:D] eta- Americans that want to leave the US can as well if they wish to. Its not just me that can do that..

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 11:10:55 AM)
quote: What i do have in my control is where i live, work, play, I was thinking a nice place back from the ocean in turks and caicos actually.. You would do rather well then to read up on what kind of paradise those islands were during the days of the Buccaneers then my dear [:D] I always pick New Zealand because sans a global nuclear thing... the resources there are pretty limitless and indigenous populations low. For now, I mean.

tj444 -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 11:20:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: What i do have in my control is where i live, work, play, I was thinking a nice place back from the ocean in turks and caicos actually.. You would do rather well then to read up on what kind of paradise those islands were during the days of the Buccaneers then my dear [:D] I always pick New Zealand because sans a global nuclear thing... the resources there are pretty limitless and indigenous populations low. For now, I mean. Buccaneers?? buried treasure??!!! [8D]

Edwynn -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 11:50:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan That you are what you besmirch? Sounds cultist to me... like give me all your young so that I might train them properly. What, an ideologue? Really? I have as many "dust ups" with 'liberals' on this site as I do with 'conservatives,' for those paying attention. I am failing in my attempt to persuade others that we should look at issues on merits of the case rather than just going down the usual check list of 'my side'/'their side' to figure out what we are supposed to think about something, true. I do in fact have to check myself every once in awhile and ask; "are you THAT frikkin' delusional, or what?" I am only semi-delusional in that regard, actually. The problem is, I have a pulse and therefore cannot help it, it's just who I am. "Iconoclast" is the label some people paste on me. It is just difficult to live in a world where people so willingly allow themselves to be so easily manipulated. After all that; of course it is impossible to leave ideology out of it completely. I'm therefore in favor of people making themselves aware of ideological thinking outside of the grossly oversimplified binary mentality existing in this country. Ordoliberalism (Ordoliberalismus) would be one place to start in effort to expand awareness. This is one variant of economic liberalism, not the political sort. I have to admit, it was somewhat mind blowing to discover that there was a socioeconomic approach that was openly pro-markets (not, I repeat, NOT "free market") which assumed that benefit to society as whole was the intended purpose of the whole affair. Quite a foreign concept in contrast to the UK/US economic classical neoliberalism (effectively, "trickle down" in its various forms). In any case, I assure you I don't have much time for idle chat with my 30-years-younger class mates, and certainly no interest in proselytizing them in any fashion. My comment re younger folks was in recognition of the fact that some number of them seem to be refreshingly apolitical, nothing more to it than that. They don't ask me about politics. Never. One of them might ask me to help them figure out how to use the statistics functions on their calculator, or ask me why the professor is making us read 50+ pages of various studies exploring the relationship (more accurately, lack of) between the respective CPIs of different countries and the foreign exchange rates, and then making us write a 600-800 word 'summary' of it. "Didn't we just go over in class, last week, how actual trade in goods and services accounts for only ~ 1-3% of all FX trading? So, how could CPI have much to do with FX, then?", or something like that. The professor assigning this running wheel exercise was in fact groping in efforts to come up with the requisite 'make-work' that academia is so fond of, but I didn't even say that to my class mate. I forgot what I said in particular, but something along the lines of "I dunno, let's just see what we have here." I hope that you find my cult leadership to be satisfactory, by your standards.

outhere69 -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 8:48:43 PM)
FR.. I hates the YouTube. Gimmee a transcript any day! I remember some threads from a few years ago stating that the amount in derivatives was about 5 times that of all assets in the world. Slate had an explanation that suggests the $75 trillion figure may be overstated, since the same asset may be in multiple trades and double-counting (at least) raises its ugly head. Did someone in the video mention whether this was "notional value", or an estimate of "market value" at today's prices?

Edwynn -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 9:28:25 PM)
No they did not. This gets into the question of book value vs. mark-to-market. But futures and options are where the fun is. 75 today could be 65 or 85 tomorrow, or yesterday. Slight exaggeration, but point made. But we have to keep in mind that there were only 17 corporations in 2007 that held an AAA rating, but all of a sudden CDO after CDO sprouted forth with the same rating. Over a hundred. Over five hundred. Wow. Amazing how much more credit worthy the investment banks became nearly overnight, as the no-doc loans ever increased in the underlying CDOs. In the new text books, they refer to this as "financial innovation." Most recently, we came upon this by way of reference to the innocuous term, "mismanagement of financial innovation." Send a financial meteor to to the world, and call the resulting huge crater "mismanagement of financial innovation." Neat, huh?

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:14:55 PM)
quote: Slate had an explanation that suggests the $75 trillion figure may be overstated, since the same asset may be in multiple trades and double-counting (at least) raises its ugly head. Did someone in the video mention whether this was "notional value", or an estimate of "market value" at today's prices? Slate is (and a handful of I-wanna-sound-like-a know-it-all_on_the_webs of course, those always float to the top when there's an issue of concern to cloud up). ... the only one trying to minimize it I've seen so far. But let's not split hairs here I think most of us can agree that regardless of the precise figure... When a the American people are made by quiet (not secret, just very very quiet) transfer of an astronomic sum of monetary risk is transacted and WSJ and No other MAJOR outlet reports on it in any real detail... And it isn't even pushing Michael jackson's long fucking dead and rotting corpse off our TV screens... THEN WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM

SternSkipper -> RE: Still Don't Get It? (10/22/2011 10:17:08 PM)
quote: No they did not. This gets into the question of book value vs. mark-to-market. But futures and options are where the fun is. 75 today could be 65 or 85 tomorrow, or yesterday. Slight exaggeration, but point made. So you're saying it really matters whether it's roughly one third of the world's monetasry worth or a little less [8D] You're fucking kidding me

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