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RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:12:21 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Ahhh... I forget that some don't believe that improving education and making it easier for companies to save money, be competitive and grow will create jobs.

Then again, I don't understand just how they think the Government is going to create jobs.  Well... aside from restarting the Civilian Conservation Corps. 

I wonder how many folks these days would be willing to travel across the country and live in tent cities earning $10 an hour for back-breaking labor building roads and damns?  From the hysterics about illegal immigrants leaving the country and leaving all these crops to rot in the fields, with no Americans willing to do the work, I doubt many would be interested in a new CCC.





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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:16:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Ahhh... I forget that some don't believe that improving education and making it easier for companies to save money, be competitive and grow will create jobs.


I used too.... this latest round cured me. How many tax cuts do businesses have? How many were granted within the past 8 years? How is job growth coming about as a result?

Education is important... but that isnt getting Joe Smith a job today.

Tax cuts COULD improve the job market... but it hasnt thus far.

I wonder how many folks these days would be willing to travel across the country and live in tent cities earning $10 an hour for back-breaking labor building roads and damns? From the hysterics about illegal immigrants leaving the country and leaving all these crops to rot in the fields, with no Americans willing to do the work, I doubt many would be interested in a new CCC.

Why would you assume they couldnt get the same work in their own back yards?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:17:36 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		That's just it. The government is a liability and the more they spend, and the more jobs they create either by raising taxes or borrowing just gets us in deeper and deeper. They want to create government jobs and jobs that depend on government spending. That's not a plan, that's a suicide pact. The whole country can't be on welfare, social security, and government payrolls. Who does that leave to pay the taxes?

What they need to do is get out of the way of businesses and corporations and let them do what they do best. Yes, greed is a motivating factor and it is the ultimate motivating factor which Capitalism thrives on.

By the way, I also forgot to mention that Obama has had 3 years to enforce our Immigration laws and protect American jobs. They don't just pick crops any more. Instead what they have done is try to covertly promote the DREAM Act in each State, which basically sends Illegal aliens to college to take away even more of these college kids jobs.

Vote Romney people.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:28:32 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I think I have an answer to your question. There actually is a job boom in this country right now in, of all places, North Dakota. It is oil field work and also, of course, the lower paying service jobs that support it. I know, it isn't the CCC (too bad, because a CCC type thing was what they should have created with the first stimulus bill), bul oil field work is dirty, disgusting, back breaking and exhausting. In short, the kind of work "americans won't do." People are traveling there from across the country, and basically living in tent city's ( or the back of their cars) because there is no housing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKYs. 

I wonder how many folks these days would be willing to travel across the country and live in tent cities earning $10 an hour for back-breaking labor building roads and damns?  From the hysterics about illegal immigrants leaving the country and leaving all these crops to rot in the fields, with no Americans willing to do the work, I doubt many would be interested in a new CCC.






_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:36:02 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Ahhh... I forget that some don't believe that improving education and making it easier for companies to save money, be competitive and grow will create jobs.


I used too.... this latest round cured me. How many tax cuts do businesses have? How many were granted within the past 8 years? How is job growth coming about as a result?


Many companies aren't growing right now because of the overall climate of uncertainty.  I know that is certainly the case with our business.  We need more help and we can afford more help... but we certainly aren't going to even think about hiring because the future is not in the least bit stable right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Education is important... but that isnt getting Joe Smith a job today.


It certainly isn't everyone, but too many Joe Smiths aren't willing to take what is available.  There are jobs out there that are going unfilled.  Yeah, they aren't management making $60,000 or more a year and some aren't full-time. 

I understand that people have certain needs and requirements, but I've heard too many people say they won't take a job because it isn't worth their time and effort... that it doesn't pay enough to sustain their current standard of living or they make as much or more just taking unemployment until it runs out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Tax cuts COULD improve the job market... but it hasnt thus far.


And it won't until some certainty is created.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I wonder how many folks these days would be willing to travel across the country and live in tent cities earning $10 an hour for back-breaking labor building roads and damns? From the hysterics about illegal immigrants leaving the country and leaving all these crops to rot in the fields, with no Americans willing to do the work, I doubt many would be interested in a new CCC.

Why would you assume they couldnt get the same work in their own back yards?


Because not everyone lives in an area that would benefit from CCC type work, and for a CCC type program to work, it would have to be in areas that didn't overtly compete with private business.  How well do you think it would go over if the government provided CCC workers to build roads in a town where it would displace existing construction companies and their workers?

The Government isn't stupid.  Think about it... was CCC work available in the 1930s in everyone's backyards?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:40:40 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I think I have an answer to your question. There actually is a job boom in this country right now in, of all places, North Dakota. It is oil field work and also, of course, the lower paying service jobs that support it. I know, it isn't the CCC (too bad, because a CCC type thing was what they should have created with the first stimulus bill), bul oil field work is dirty, disgusting, back breaking and exhausting. In short, the kind of work "americans won't do." People are traveling there from across the country, and basically living in tent city's ( or the back of their cars) because there is no housing.


And good for them!  I applaud anyone who is willing to do what they need to do (within the law) in order to provide for themselves.  I'm guessing you won't see these people standing around in some "Occupy ______" demonstration... unless it is their days off. 

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:45:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It certainly isn't everyone, but too many Joe Smiths aren't willing to take what is available.  There are jobs out there that are going unfilled.  Yeah, they aren't management making $60,000 or more a year and some aren't full-time. 

I understand that people have certain needs and requirements, but I've heard too many people say they won't take a job because it isn't worth their time and effort... that it doesn't pay enough to sustain their current standard of living or they make as much or more just taking unemployment until it runs out.


1 million applications at McDonalds for 60,000 jobs belies that belief.

Because not everyone lives in an area that would benefit from CCC type work, and for a CCC type program to work, it would have to be in areas that didn't overtly compete with private business. How well do you think it would go over if the government provided CCC workers to build roads in a town where it would displace existing construction companies and their workers?

The Government isn't stupid. Think about it... was CCC work available in the 1930s in everyone's backyards?

The CCC was your idea, not mine. I do believe job incentives to hire should be a big part of any job package. Something I havent seen yet.

You are a business owner... and you are feeling the pinch. So I think you are an appropriate person to ask this question, since no one else has answered it yet.

How long can your business sustain itself in the current economy?

People are cutting back at the home level.. saving more.. paying off bills.. doing without... just to get out of debt. How are those actions affecting your bottom line?

Its not snark, Im truly curious. Because what I see is a vicious cycle without end. You wont hire because you arent sure you can afford it. They wont spend because they know they cant afford it.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:50:45 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/23/occupy-wall-street-poll_n_1027109.html

More than one-third of the country supports the Wall Street protests, and even more – 58 percent – say they are furious about America's politics.

The number of angry people is growing as deep reservoirs of resentment grip the country, according to the latest Associated Press-GfK poll.





no kidding!

deMOBsters and dereprobates were entrusted to manage the joint and they sold us up the river for the last 150 years.

Hows voting the bums out workin for ya?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 1:59:17 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

That's just it. The government is a liability and the more they spend, and the more jobs they create either by raising taxes or borrowing just gets us in deeper and deeper. They want to create government jobs and jobs that depend on government spending. That's not a plan, that's a suicide pact. The whole country can't be on welfare, social security, and government payrolls. Who does that leave to pay the taxes?

What they need to do is get out of the way of businesses and corporations and let them do what they do best. Yes, greed is a motivating factor and it is the ultimate motivating factor which Capitalism thrives on.

By the way, I also forgot to mention that Obama has had 3 years to enforce our Immigration laws and protect American jobs. They don't just pick crops any more. Instead what they have done is try to covertly promote the DREAM Act in each State, which basically sends Illegal aliens to college to take away even more of these college kids jobs.

Vote Romney people.



bingo and there is no el prezi dante can change that.

the courts rule the US and will continue to rule the US.

Its where the rubber meets the road.

the legislatures run their bills past their legislative attorneys who run the courts, to see if they can somehow get it to stick and those attorneys give it the hey or nay and presto, over 1000 laws for this state alone in the last year and of course the need for bodies to enforce those "BY-LAWS".

get it  :)

The only thing that can truly fix this is a complete restructuring and with the lack of knowledge in law of the people of this country that scares the hell out me.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:03:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		One of the smartest suggestions for OWS I have heard recently.... buy stock... buy enough stock to make your vote count in shareholder meetings. Effect change through their own system.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:18:21 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

It certainly isn't everyone, but too many Joe Smiths aren't willing to take what is available.  There are jobs out there that are going unfilled.  Yeah, they aren't management making $60,000 or more a year and some aren't full-time. 

I understand that people have certain needs and requirements, but I've heard too many people say they won't take a job because it isn't worth their time and effort... that it doesn't pay enough to sustain their current standard of living or they make as much or more just taking unemployment until it runs out.


1 million applications at McDonalds for 60,000 jobs belies that belief.


Sorry... but I'm not sure I'd consider that report to be an accurate reflection.  In the last year, I've personally seen a help wanted sign in our local UPS Store on at least five separate occasions.  It also isn't unusual to note help wanted signs around... and I've never seen a line of applicants out the door of those places.  Firm and I travel around the country quite a bit... I've never noticed anything different any where else, either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The CCC was your idea, not mine. I do believe job incentives to hire should be a big part of any job package. Something I havent seen yet.


And just what is it that you consider a jobs "incentive"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are a business owner... and you are feeling the pinch. So I think you are an appropriate person to ask this question, since no one else has answered it yet.

How long can your business sustain itself in the current economy?


We haven't felt any pinch at all.  In fact, our work has probably quadrupled in the past two years.  However, we don't take that for granted... it could bottom out tomorrow.

This is part of the uncertainty I mentioned.  Without a stable economy, we could be out of business in no time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

People are cutting back at the home level.. saving more.. paying off bills.. doing without... just to get out of debt. How are those actions affecting your bottom line?


As I said, it isn't affecting us at this time, however, our business is unique. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its not snark, Im truly curious. Because what I see is a vicious cycle without end. You wont hire because you arent sure you can afford it. They wont spend because they know they cant afford it.


It is a vicious cycle, but one that can be adjusted to.  It does take time, and it isn't necessarily pretty, though.

This is an interesting article that Charlie and I read yesterday.  If only the US would take the steps necessary...

Estonia Lives the European Dream



(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:29:53 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Treasure, if you look at the guys shoveling in that picture they look like they're in pretty good shape!
That's another benefit of getting people off of welfare, fresh air and exercise!
Six months of working in the tomatoe fields and they'll be ready to take on Mike Tyson.



_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:33:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Necessary steps that encourage foreign investors to go there and open places far to expensive for the locals?

Really interesting.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:39:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Sorry... but I'm not sure I'd consider that report to be an accurate reflection. In the last year, I've personally seen a help wanted sign in our local UPS Store on at least five separate occasions. It also isn't unusual to note help wanted signs around... and I've never seen a line of applicants out the door of those places. Firm and I travel around the country quite a bit... I've never noticed anything different any where else, either.


I have seen such signs here too. And the comments when asked why they are having trouble filling them is... we get lots applying... but they dont feel right.

Its an employers market, they can be extremely picky... and they have the right to do so. Just dont equate that with people not wanting to work.

quote:

And just what is it that you consider a jobs "incentive"?


Something wrong with tax incentives to hire workers?

quote:

We haven't felt any pinch at all. In fact, our work has probably quadrupled in the past two years. However, we don't take that for granted... it could bottom out tomorrow.


Something else I hear from the local business owners... Yes, we are busy, but not busy enough to hire. And the employees are complaining, quietly, for fear of losing their jobs, thay they are constantly having their schedules rearranged, asked to work longer hours, more work load.


quote:

This is part of the uncertainty I mentioned. Without a stable economy, we could be out of business in no time.


And you are waiting on that stability to come from the government.... yet you want less government.

quote:

It is a vicious cycle, but one that can be adjusted to. It does take time, and it isn't necessarily pretty, though.


So while your business quadruples, its not pretty that others are having to pinch pennies just to eat... and some people have to chose between eating and medicine. Yet you see nothing wrong with that?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:40:38 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Necessary steps that encourage foreign investors to go there and open places far to expensive for the locals?

Really interesting.


Estonia is small and to increase their business base, they had to attract foreign investors.  The US isn't small... we've plenty of people here who would love the opportunity to start their own business, if they didn't have all the Government hurdles to overcome.

Of course, the business climate was only one portion of the steps they took.  Personally, I think the other steps they took probably had more of an impact.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:42:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Such as cutting income.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 2:56:27 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have seen such signs here too. And the comments when asked why they are having trouble filling them is... we get lots applying... but they dont feel right.

Its an employers market, they can be extremely picky... and they have the right to do so. Just dont equate that with people not wanting to work.


I don't disagree that is an employers' market, but the comments I've received are more along the lines of the people hired aren't reliable to show up, expect to be paid just for showing up, or want special scheduling arrangements.  As I've personally witnessed some general decline in work ethics, I have to believe there are some issues on both sides.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And just what is it that you consider a jobs "incentive"?


Something wrong with tax incentives to hire workers?


I thought you said you hadn't seen tax cuts create any more jobs?  I though maybe you had some other kind of incentive in mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

We haven't felt any pinch at all. In fact, our work has probably quadrupled in the past two years. However, we don't take that for granted... it could bottom out tomorrow.


Something else I hear from the local business owners... Yes, we are busy, but not busy enough to hire. And the employees are complaining, quietly, for fear of losing their jobs, thay they are constantly having their schedules rearranged, asked to work longer hours, more work load.


Well... there is a point where you have to determine if the increase in business is going to be worth the cost and risk to hire more workers.  In the meantime, should you just let new customers not be waited on?  Tell 'em, "sorry... can't help you cause we don't want to add any more work to the employees we have?"  If business slows down, for even a few weeks, are those "complaining" employees going to be happy if their hours and work load are cut so that all those new employees still have some income?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This is part of the uncertainty I mentioned. Without a stable economy, we could be out of business in no time.


And you are waiting on that stability to come from the government.... yet you want less government.


No.  I don't expect the stability to come from the Government.  I wish the Government would worry more about doing the job it is supposed to do and let the economy take care of itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

It is a vicious cycle, but one that can be adjusted to. It does take time, and it isn't necessarily pretty, though.


So while your business quadruples, its not pretty that others are having to pinch pennies just to eat... and some people have to chose between eating and medicine. Yet you see nothing wrong with that?


No one ever said life is fair.  I don't see it as being a "right or wrong" situation... it just is.  And tomorrow, I may be the one pinching pennies just to eat.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 3:00:06 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Such as cutting income.


Considering that Estonia had been a communist country and businesses were nationalized, I'm guessing the cut in wages was something that the government there affected prior to privatizing.  Since business here are already private, I don't think that would work in the US.  However, removing the minimum wage might be considered a similar action here.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 3:02:02 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Perhaps the "certainty" you and others are waiting on will be supplied by re-election of this President and a mandate for him to pursue his policies.
Might not be the christmas list the "job creators" of America are hoping for....but perhaps there is "certainty" there.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New poll on OWS...over a 3rd of Americans in support - 10/23/2011 3:04:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I thought you said you hadn't seen tax cuts create any more jobs?  I though maybe you had some other kind of incentive in mind.


I havent.... nor have I seen any directly designed to link cuts to employment. Have you?

quote:

No. I don't expect the stability to come from the Government. I wish the Government would worry more about doing the job it is supposed to do and let the economy take care of itself.


The country has been waiting on businesses to take care of themselves... instead they are sending jobs overseas and sitting on stockpiles of cash, drinking champagne while people complain.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 40
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