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Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 9:59:21 AM   
Anemone3


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As a new member of this site, I was fascinated by this discussion.  The variety of opinions and personalities is amazing.  So is the metamorphosis of the threads from one theme to another under the topic of pro-domination. 

First of all, I would like to state that I am well educated), but do not consider education as enough to justify certain positions in arguments.  In fact, many well-educated people will readily admit that they do not know everything, and that education is really the process of training a person to seek accurate information, to examine their ethics, and to be aware of their own values and limitations as well as their gifts.  I believe education is really about life-long critical thinking and having the ability to see the viewpoint of others without necessarily agreeing with them or changing one’s own perspective.

As a non-pro Domme, I seek a relationship in the BDSM realm.  I want to share the joy and friendship of a willing submissive in the context of caring and sharing.  For me, that would be difficult if I depended on my living from the fees or gifts of submissive.  That is my personal choice.  That said, there are many more male submissive than female dominants.  I am not sure why this is so, but I do know that there are many wonderful, nice, obedient, kinky submissive men who long for their dominant match who may not be able to find it.  Also, there are people who for whatever reasons of circumstance, choice, marriage, children, occupation, physical traits, or mental development are unable or unwilling to find the female dominant that meets their needs.  For these persons, a professional dominant fills a need that is not met in other ways.   I support the freedom of choice for those persons to go to professionals, and support the rights of willing, smart, and ambitious women who want to practice this profession (and I think it can be a profession).

The problem is the moral and legal framework that regulates so-called “sex work” and the persons who are employed in this group of occupations.  Laws exist to coerce certain forms of behavior, supposedly to protect the public health and safety.   There are only a few places that acknowledge sex work as a valid occupation and attempt to make it safe for the employees and the customers.  For example, the state of Nevada has legalized and regulated the activities of sex workers in a few counties.  There are several brothels that are licensed, located by law in counties with a population of less than 10,000.  These businesses provide a safe environment for the sex workers, and some assurances for the customers of safety from sexually transmitted diseases provided by screening the sex workers for diseases and requiring the customers to wear condoms.  The workers are monitored, and safer from abuse and injury than workers who are under the management of so-called pimps.  I am not trying to compare professional dominants to sex workers in Nevada, but to point out that the legalization of activities involving sex work and acknowledge that being a professional dominant is an occupation would go a long way to legitimize the activities and services provided by these woman.  It seems the name-calling and splitting of hairs in this thread is really an attempt to impose moral arguments on others and trying to control their opinions.  Of course, when you get a bunch of people who are naturally inclined to control, I guess it should be expected!

Anyway, I was also interested in the comparison of nurses to professional dominants.   I think the thread was interesting.   In the early history of nursing, some nurses were recruited from the ranks of prostitutes.  People such as Florence Nightingale realized that these people did not have the training to care for the ill, and promoted changes in environmental and caring standards that improved the outcomes for patients.   Nursing has a long history of examining ethics and promoting the welfare of the patient.  Professional dominants could do well to develop codes of ethics and standards for the care of their clients.  A nurse who abuses a client, takes belongings or funds, or fails to provide a reasonable standard of care will not be practicing as a nurse because they will not have a license for very long!

I think that a lot of the moralizing and name-calling that I have read in this discussion stems from the feelings of superiority that some members of the BDSM community seem to feel over others due to the exchange of funds.  Just as a nurse will most certainly lose a license to practice if a client is taken advantage of monetarily and can be sued for malpractice, professional dominants should aspire to treat the submissive in their care in the same way and not take advantage of the deep needs of their clients to extract money.    This does not mean I thing a professional should not be paid for services; I think that if one is earning money for BDSM, then one owes a duty to the client to provide safe and quality services.  If a professional dominant is doing that, then it should not be the purview of the BDSM community to sit in judgment on the choices of the persons who has chosen this occupation. 

Thanks for this forum and opportunity to express my opinion!

Ms. Anemone
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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 11:53:35 AM   
genvieve


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Anemone...
 
First of all, welcome to Collar me...can't wait to see what else You say here.  In lieu of this topic, i'd like to add simply what i've found from speaking with professional Dom/mes. i too asked the question "how is it not prosititution"  and have received a response of the following:
 
-In the state of California, one cannot consent to their own battery.  So, by it's very definition, BDSM is illegal in any case.
-That being said, the professional Dominants i know swear that no sex is involved, but i have to wonder...
 
As my Dominant likes to remind me, if as a result of the session, one or more of the persons involved end up going home and masturbating while thinking of this... it's sexual.  Period, end of discussion.
 
i am rambling, so i will stop now.

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 3:27:12 PM   
MichMasochist


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You know I was ready to post my rant for the day. But alas genvieve has posted well enough. Welcome to the community.

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 3:56:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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Perhaps the laws against battery apply in California, but not all domination involves battery. One could look at professional domination as they look at a sex therapist. A sex therapist often works with a man that has trouble maintaining erections or prematurely ejaculating. Some therapist even have sex with their patients. Some men do not go to a pro domme for sex, but for experience serving, so they can tell a domme they have been trained, would this not fall under the category of sex therapy more than prostitution, especially since many pro dommes do not have sex with those paying for sessions?

Legally a woman can give a sex show to a man without having sex with him, and that is not considered prostitution even though she gets paid. Erotic movie actresses and porn actresses can legally get paid for the sex acts they perform and they are not considered prostitutes according to the law.

Just because a man jacks off when he thinks about the Hooters waitress he tipped earlier does not make her a prostitute either... But that is just my opinion

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 4:18:54 PM   
MichMasochist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Perhaps the laws against battery apply in California, but not all domination involves battery. One could look at professional domination as they look at a sex therapist. A sex therapist often works with a man that has trouble maintaining erections or prematurely ejaculating. Some therapist even have sex with their patients. Some men do not go to a pro domme for sex, but for experience serving, so they can tell a domme they have been trained, would this not fall under the category of sex therapy more than prostitution, especially since many pro dommes do not have sex with those paying for sessions?


This one makes me laugh. I've heard hookers claim to be sex therapists, even some strippers. It really doesn't change anything.

quote:


Legally a woman can give a sex show to a man without having sex with him, and that is not considered prostitution even though she gets paid. Erotic movie actresses and porn actresses can legally get paid for the sex acts they perform and they are not considered prostitutes according to the law.


That really depends on the jurisdiction. One such jurisdiction I know, any offer of or act there of involving an act of insertion into any orifice of a person for money meets the legal definition of prostitution. Sex therapist engaging in sex act(s) with a paying client are not exempt. To do the same thing while the recipiant of said act is physically restrained meets the legal definition of rape. Irrespective of expressed consent or gender.

So inregards to your referrence above. All persons present during such production would be subject to arrest on the charge of prostitution. The parties funding the production will be subject to additional charges of pandering. A class "B" felony.


quote:


Just because a man jacks off when he thinks about the Hooters waitress he tipped earlier does not make her a prostitute either... But that is just my opinion


Last time I was at a Hooters it wasn't for the quality of the food. Hooters is about it's name.

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 4:36:03 PM   
juliaoceania


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They make porn  here daily in California, I havent heard of anyone getting tried for prostitution for it, perhaps where you are, not where I am.

I have read through what some pro dommes do with clients, and some humiliate men, some order them around, some just let the men serve them. The men never touch them, the men are there for the experience of serving so they can tell their future mistress they are trained. This is NOT prostitution.

The Hooters waitress is not a prostitute.

The girl who masturbates in front of a client and nothing went into an orfice did not break a law did she? Even in that backwoods juristiction that has those laws. (Im not aware of such a law in my state)

And strippers work all over the USA, they are not whores either.

As for the sex therapist... I would not consider someone with a Master's degree that has had weekly sessions with a man and helped him on many levels to be a prostitute because she had sex with a client in a nonthreatening environment so that he could become a sexually functioning human being to be prostitution.. and btw, sex therapy is not considered prostitution by many educated people. Myself included. Just because a prostitute called herself a sex therapist did not make her one.


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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/25/2006 5:34:55 PM   
petwolf22


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 not even going to go there, i'm so tired of these arguments back and forth.

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 7:53:42 PM   
MichMasochist


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I'm not, it's so much fun. :)

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 8:06:20 PM   
IronBear


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Crikey and to think that when I read "Professional Dominanation as an Occupation" the thread was going to be all about the Military, The Police, ermmmmm Certain Governments and Governmental Departments, ohhhh and Head Masters/Mistresses in Boarding Schools...  Sheesh to think even I could have fun and get paid too..... Stone the crows, guess I'll have to go and get me the right gear and see what happens...... 

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 8:37:50 PM   
Massokissme


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The more I know, the more I realize I don't know shit. (Read my profile for more.) Just a general observation. -M

< Message edited by Massokissme -- 5/28/2006 8:39:55 PM >


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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 8:44:50 PM   
CrappyDom


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First off, there are a host of reasons why S&M IS legal in California and I think there is even some case law supporting it. 

Second, as someone who HAS charged for sex (only once dammit) I would LOVE to be a male pro-dom but there just isn't a market for doing it in the het world and dominanting men just doesn't do it for me.

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 8:49:05 PM   
mitsu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Crikey and to think that when I read "Professional Dominanation as an Occupation" the thread was going to be all about the Military, The Police, ermmmmm Certain Governments and Governmental Departments, ohhhh and Head Masters/Mistresses in Boarding Schools... 


Hehe.  Yeah, I'm actually still not sure what this thread is about.  Comparing different professions?  Legal definitions of sex and prostitution laws?  I think these are well-covered topics here on CM.. 

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 9:52:20 PM   
Arpig


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I would reply, but my view of this has been made abundantly clear in several other threads on the topic, and I really can't be bothered getting into it all again....all your questions have been answered already in the other threads you refer to, so why reask them after reading those threads?

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 9:58:20 PM   
CrappyDom


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Arpig,

Perhaps for the same reason you chose to post but not reply?

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RE: Professional Dominanation as an Occupation - 5/28/2006 10:06:48 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

First off, there are a host of reasons why S&M IS legal in California and I think there is even some case law supporting it. 

Second, as someone who HAS charged for sex (only once dammit) I would LOVE to be a male pro-dom but there just isn't a market for doing it in the het world and dominanting men just doesn't do it for me.


If you find that case law can you give it to me? I was having a discussion about this with someone and he is under the impression that a person cannot consent to their own battery. I would really love it if that were not true, because it does not seem fair to me that I am begging for someone to break the law by spanking me...lol. I would say that I am aiding and abetting if that were the case...lol. Im sorry if this is hijacking the thread. I just found it hard to believe that what we do is illegal in California, and I cannot consent to it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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