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Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:07:08 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I was gonna post this is ask a sub/slave but decided the Doms might have some insight on this as well. And with not wanting to highjack the hard limits thread, I am going to post this like this.

I'm not sure how most deal with on line communications. In other words, what's all covered in converstions while still talking on line. Nor how far conversations go with others. Sometime or another, the subject of sex and limits is usually going to enter the conversation. On line or off line. The subject comes up eventually.

I was curious.....specially where pain lovers are concerned. You meet someone you are totally smitten with. Everything up till now is going too good. So you know anytime now, the wrench is going to be tossed in and put a small or possibly large hole in it all.

When the topic finally comes up....you find out your likes and dislikes are like night and day.  We mostly all agree that sex isn't the thing that makes the entire dynamics of a D/s and or M/s relationship. But we know it is very nice added bonus for most of us. So when limits start getting  laid out. And you find out that it's the Dom with hard limits. How do you respond to this?

Let me see if I can restate this....... ok submissive/slave.....(this is only a hypathetic situation) You meet  Dom that you feel the power....the pull....the need...want....to submit to this one....and no other. You have had the joy of before  feeling a knife laid upon you breast and or backside. But you find out this new dom despises knives at all. You're into water sports.....this dom is not. You're into fisting....this dom isn't.

We've  seen the threads on dominants respecting the hard limits of submissives and slaves. Now this question is about respecting the Doms Hard Limits. I've often wondered if a Dom must respect the slaves limits.... is it something they can do without from now on? Can the submissive/slaves live from now on with something they now know they'll  never get again as well?

We see where a dom might push limits...how does a sub/slave try to reach limits...without appearing to top from the bottom? I know there have been threads about how a sub/slave isn't suppose to need or want... it's all about the dom. But yet other threads tell submissives and slave....you can name limits...likes...and dislikes... (ccatch 22 on threads there too...lol) Then there are the threads on it's not about sex....etc.... it may not be about the sex...but when sex is involved....both like to feel things....and be happy when it's all over.... and I am one that refuses to lie to a Dom when he asks me if i'm happy sexually.......if i'm not....just to make him happy.

So I guess now the question should be asked....with all the threads on changing people...from weight...to the way some talk ....type...think....... I figured I would ask about changing ones limits....specially when it's the dom with hard limits...and not the submissives and slaves? So I am curious....can each one Dom or slave....just give up all feelings.....for the "right one"......and live feeling hollow.....unfullfilled...lie when asked happy....just to be with this one....????


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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.
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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:15:29 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		It really depends on how important that activity is to someone and that has to be weighed against how important the 'person' is when compared to the activity. Himself has a hard limit on fucking other guys which is something that I find to be really hot. He is more important to me than the activity and there is no single activity which I've had to give up that leaves a hole because it's not being done anymore. I'm fulfilled in many other ways just by being with him. As long as there is enough in common, the things which can't or won't be allowed should be minor enough not to matter. If they matter that much, they aren't minor and that's something which needs to be addressed and perhaps compromised on.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:25:22 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		We all really have the same choice in the end:  Is this what will make us fulfilled in the long term?

I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who feels they are compromising who they are.  Not only won't it work, but for me, that's not actual respect or love.  Love and respect for me means giving someone the freedom to get what they really need to be fulfilled- even if it means that's not you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:25:26 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Bita...always love your responses... and I usually agree with them. But this time i'm talking more of the meeting someone....and going from there.... not the already being with someone. Though I so do agree with the depending on the activity. Like you...  I love watching the same thing....but it's not something I HAVE to have...



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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:28:57 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

We all really have the same choice in the end:  Is this what will make us fulfilled in the long term?

I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who feels they are compromising who they are.  Not only won't it work, but for me, that's not actual respect or love.  Love and respect for me means giving someone the freedom to get what they really need to be fulfilled- even if it means that's not you.


I agree LA....  I wouldn't want anyone to change who they are ....go against their morals....to make me happy....nor will I go against mine. But to enter into a realtionship...because most of it feels soooooo right.....to feel unfullfilled later..... nope..to me that's where the lies...and deceit begins.


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:40:39 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Bita...always love your responses... and I usually agree with them. But this time i'm talking more of the meeting someone....and going from there.... not the already being with someone. Though I so do agree with the depending on the activity. Like you...  I love watching the same thing....but it's not something I HAVE to have...




Ah, I got ya. I have the same answer. ;) If he's really floating my boat, giving up the minor stuff is OK with me as long as there is a potential there and if he's able to take my power that quickly, there's definitely potential. That's exactly how it happened with Himself and I. He has a lot of limits, but nothing that is a deal breaker. Now, if I had wanted children (and been able to have some more) and that was a hard limit, that's the sort of thing where I'd go.. well, HELL.. too bad, so sad for me.. I need to find someone who wants the same things in life that I do and whether he made me breathless or not, I'd have to say bi-bi to 'what might have been.'

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:44:13 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		............ thank you Bita... you always know how to make me see my own words clearer too.... so yeah... you about got it right there. There really are deal breakers...and then there are the... oh hell.. i can do with out that....lol

Bita... you did it again to me!...lol... took me off my own personal train of thought...I'm refering to  the sexual aspects here....LOL


< Message edited by truesub4u -- 5/25/2006 10:51:10 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 10:58:20 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Bita...always love your responses... and I usually agree with them. But this time i'm talking more of the meeting someone....and going from there.... not the already being with someone. Though I so do agree with the depending on the activity. Like you...  I love watching the same thing....but it's not something I HAVE to have...



I'm not quite sure where the principle of your question differs from BEING with someone to MEETING someone.  Assuming someone's got to the point of actually being *smitten* then what bita said is equally applicable.

In your post, the examples you gave were of *activities*...a relationship amounts to far more than the sum of what activities take place and that can't be discounted unless it's JUST about play aspects.

I certainly would not feel *hollow or *unfulfilled* if some  *activity* didn't take place......I might if it was something a whole lot more fundamental. Changing who you are isn't quite the same as taking into account the fact that someone really doesn't like fisting etc.

agirl

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 11:07:10 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah Bita gets me off my own thoughts sometimes....LOL

My question actually does run about the meeting....getting to know...possibly taking each other as long term partners. Not so much as those that are in...have been in..long term already. Even the ones that were in relationships before finding BDSM.

Bottom line .............on a sexual manner.....not non sexual....when you meet someone...who can't make you happy sexually...but does in other ways....would you still try to make a relationship?............ How do you actually get past the hard limits...no matter who placed them.....Dom or slaves. Limits that you have found out helps fullfill your sexual needs...wants...appetites?...But will not be getting no more of....because of now set hard limits....with a new relationship?

Edited to add:..... sooner or later...i'm gonna say it right.



< Message edited by truesub4u -- 5/25/2006 11:08:52 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 11:19:37 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		First the obvious - Each Master/Dom is going to have different "limits".

When beth and I met and we talked two related subjects "fantasies" and "limits". It had been my experience that sometimes these were the same things. I won't use the obvious and the hard core items such as rape; where the 'rape fantasy' comes into play but the 'limit' would be putting a slave in the position to be raped in an uncontrolled environment. But their are more subtle examples.

It's one thing to masturbate in a dark room thinking of having a man, or men, spill their bodily fluids on you; it's quite another to act upon it. Limits come in all different forms. I believe many limits are put there because people don't want other people to think they are "weird". Yes, people DO assign judgmental "weirdness", but only in the 'third person'; "I'm kinky - YOU're weird and what you want to do is just messed up!" The "fantasy/limit" discussion is an important hurdle to jump during the establishment of a relationship. I refer to it as being naked more than skin deep. beth was a huge disadvantage when we had our chats on these issues. she hadn't experienced anything. My commitment to her was that I would take her to see and experience as much as possible. It's one of the reasons we came to CM, it's the reason we joined and attended just about every lifestyle function in LA back then. I feel having only one perspective, even one as knowledgeable and perfect as mine (that was a joke), is not good.

Once you have those discussions then the decision comes. Accept the relationship as defined by the Master or pass. At that point the "limits" are relationship limits, by definition they are the Master's. If the owner has a hard limit of OTK spanking the submissive should expect never to receive on while owned by that Master.

It's also a matter of personality. Some people are fixed in their ways. Some don't like to do anything different. We happen to both like "adventures" experienced with each other privately or with others. That lends to expansion of "limits" in an of itself. We go into every situation with only one pre-conception. We have unqualified trust and confidence in each other; therefore regardless of what happens how we feel for each other can not be effected negatively.

I told beth my hard limits were meatloaf, brussel sprouts, and mashed potatoes. she's got me liking her meatloaf, and I'm developing a taste for her mashed potatoes. I'm holding out on brussel sprouts in order not to be perceived as a 'weak Master'. 

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 11:29:04 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LOL Merc....Brussel Sprouts.... Stand your ground...never waver on that hard limit...


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 11:46:08 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Yeah Bita gets me off


Some things just scream to be taken out of context.  


quote:

Bottom line on a sexual manner when you meet someone who can't make you happy sexually...but does in other ways....would you still try to make a relationship?


Ok, seriously, for me, sex is to important to me to set it aside and I couldn't have a long lasting sustainable intimate relationship without it. I know there are submissive men and women who can because it's really not that important to them whether or not they have sex. On the flip side, I top in S/m and can have lasting relationships that have S/m as a base with no sex involved but I don't have a 'hole' (another line that would be great out of context!) because I have another outlet to express my sexuality and someone else with whom I have a sexual relationship. So, bottom line is no, I would not have an exclusive relationship with someone if it meant I'd never have sex but I know there are those who would/could.

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 11:59:46 AM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hello,

Have you considered 'going outside' for your satisfaction.

As an example:

If you are into fisting and totally taken with your new Dominant and he is totally against the idea... have you discussed his finding a Dominant (male or female) that he trusts to do the act for him.  He might be in the room or he might simply have pre-arranged with the 'secondary' Dominant how the scene will play out. 

Just because a submissive and 'their' Dominant do not match up on 'every' kink does not mean they cannot have a successful fullfilling life.  Sometimes, it's the differences that make the relationship work.

Wickad

PS - and wouldn't it be fun to have to re-late all the details of your 'fisting' experience back to your Dominant.  He of course would have already seen the tape so you couldn't leave out any embarassing details - lol.

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:17:25 PM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
Think it would be handled in much the same way as any limit a submissive would have.  Is this limit going to leave you unsatisfied enough to matter.  If she is a pain slut and he just isn't sadistic, or the other way around he is a hard core sadist and she just doesn't like pain, then it is quite possible they aren't going to match well even if in other areas they get along great.  Now if she just liked a light spanking every now and then and he isn't the type to give them if she can live without then sure there shouldn't be a problem.

Same goes for anything else, water sports, fire play, poly, knife play, whatever the case may be.  Regardless of if it is limits on the side of the dominant or the sub it all depends on just how much the other likes or lives for the activity that will determine if it will cause problems or not.

_____________________________

"The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night."~ Otto von Bismarck

"Fish and visitors smell in three days"~Benjamin Franklin

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:24:40 PM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking for myself I have few limits but I could sell my entire collection of toys
for an obedient woman. I always have my hands.

Mr. Pete

available n looking

Boycott Tequila

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:30:52 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm wondering would the examples  that you gave be actuall HARD Limits or just some thing the Dom doesnt really find all that interesting or find enjoyment in.

I only have a few Limits I would call Hard and IMO a Hard Limit  is just that- once I give it, it doesnt even need to be brought up again as  It shall never be pushed in any way shape or form. I would think a Hard Limit for a Dom would be the same.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:32:24 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		i will use a quote from someO/one i used to know...
 
"subspace is an endpoint...there are many many many ways to get there...the specifics do not matter"

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:33:48 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
I don’t push sub/slave limits. I respect their limits. I try to understand their limits. I never take advantage of an opportunity to squirm around their limits. I expect the same in return. I rarely get the same in return.
I can’t even count the many, many times that I have been approached by a sub who has a limit against something I like (perhaps bloodplay). I would not dream of trying to manipulate him out of this limit. Yet, for some reason, I don’t get the same level of respect. He can plainly see I have a limit against cross-dressing, yet within the first few emails, he’ll ask me about which panties I’m going to dress him in. Very disrespectful. I find it a double standard when a slave expects me to respect his/her limits, but has no respect for mine. The communication ends quite promptly.

Establishing a relationship before establishing limits, seems like putting the cart before the horse. There’s very little chance I’ll be pursuing a deep level relationship with someone with whom limits has not been discussed and found to be compatible. Early on in my communications, limits are brought up. If an activity is important to me or an activity is a hard limit for me, I’m going to know where the other person stands on that activity long before I ever get to any point of feeling an extreme attachment to that person. The limit conversation happens before the interaction has taken a turn toward any deep-seeded feelings. So there’s really no chance I (or my sub/slave) is going to find themselves 8 months down the road feeling unfulfilled and hollow inside. Compatibility was established long before that could ever happen.




_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:42:26 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah Bita gets me off my own thoughts sometimes....LOL

My question actually does run about the meeting....getting to know...possibly taking each other as long term partners. Not so much as those that are in...have been in..long term already. Even the ones that were in relationships before finding BDSM.

Bottom line .............on a sexual manner.....not non sexual....when you meet someone...who can't make you happy sexually...but does in other ways....would you still try to make a relationship?............ How do you actually get past the hard limits...no matter who placed them.....Dom or slaves. Limits that you have found out helps fullfill your sexual needs...wants...appetites?...But will not be getting no more of....because of now set hard limits....with a new relationship?


Doms are People too....just as likely (almost certainly) finding at least ONE fetish or aspect of BDSM repugnant.  If i understand you correctly <lmao>  you are asking the subbies and slaves if they would enter a LTR with a Dom/me whose hard limits were such that a fetish/activity/play practice/etc. which they want/need/desire will be unavailable.
 
So here's my answer: i think if the want/need/desire is deep enough, the answer must be "no".  Anything else is like trying to eat the bowl and not the ice cream....ultimately, those appetites will become a wedge between U/us.  JMO.
 
candystripper 



< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/25/2006 12:44:06 PM >

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RE: Doms With Hard Limits - 5/25/2006 12:48:33 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Yeah Bita gets me off my own thoughts sometimes....LOL

My question actually does run about the meeting....getting to know...possibly taking each other as long term partners. Not so much as those that are in...have been in..long term already. Even the ones that were in relationships before finding BDSM.

Bottom line .............on a sexual manner.....not non sexual....when you meet someone...who can't make you happy sexually...but does in other ways....would you still try to make a relationship?............ How do you actually get past the hard limits...no matter who placed them.....Dom or slaves. Limits that you have found out helps fullfill your sexual needs...wants...appetites?...But will not be getting no more of....because of now set hard limits....with a new relationship?

Edited to add:..... sooner or later...i'm gonna say it right.




LOL...I think I follow your train of thought now...

I think I'd probably have slight misgivings if a future Master revealed that he had a hard limit regarding his slave having orgasms...(ie ...he banned them totally)....even if he seemed perfect in every other way....lol

I'm not sure you can separate the sexual from the non-sexual....in terms of whether you'd continue to build a relationship with a Dom with a sexual hard limit that didn't match your own..it still seems to boil down to cost/benefit and what's important to you.

Unless I've NOT followed your train of thought, yet again ...lol

agirl

Edited to add ... total brussel sprout denial* would be hard to live with too.











< Message edited by agirl -- 5/25/2006 12:52:36 PM >

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