Why non anarchists support OWS

Why non anarchists support OWS (Full Version)

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Iamsemisweet -> Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:07:20 PM)
This article sums up my feeling. There is a reason OWS is spreading. The inequity in this country has become too extreme http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-greenwald/immunity-impunity-elite-america_b_1033102.html?ir=Yahoo

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:36:15 PM)
Giant financial institutions were caught red-handed engaging in massive, systematic fraud to foreclose on people’s homes and the reaction of the political class, led by the Obama administration, was to shield them from meaningful consequences. Rather than submit on an equal basis to the rules, through an oligarchical, democracy-subverting control of the political process, they now control the process of writing those rules and how they are applied. This is the very definition of crony capitalism. It's not the capitalism that's so bad and cause so much outrage (or it shouldn't be), but the government that allows it and the politicians who profit by it. I'll say again ... OWS is in the wrong town. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:39:03 PM)
If they all went to Washington, who would listen? How long could they stay? How could many still work? While it escapes many, there are very valid reasons why these protests are in cities around the country.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:41:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl If they all went to Washington, who would listen? How long could they stay? How could many still work? While it escapes many, there are very valid reasons why these protests are in cities around the country. A woman offered to help a man who, on his hands and knees under a street lamp, was frantically searching for his lost key. Frustrated after several unsuccessful minutes crawling under the bright light, the woman asked, “Where were you when you lost your key?” Pointing to a dark alley, the man answered, “over there.” “Then why aren’t you looking there?” she asked. “Because the light’s better here,” he replied. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:42:11 PM)
Hmm... thank you for the put down.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:43:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Hmm... thank you for the put down. Quit being so damn thin skinned. It's a parable. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:46:07 PM)
I gave you a viable reason why they are where they are. And you responded with... a parable thats more snark.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 4:49:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I gave you a viable reason why they are where they are. And you responded with... a parable thats more snark. Do you even get the point? Firm

TreasureKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Do you even get the point? It doesn't sound to me as if she does. Taz, I could give you a dozen perfectly logical and viable reasons why it would be better for me to conduct a protest (let's say the price of milk) from the comfort of my house. The point is, how effective would my protest be?

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:09:04 PM)
And what do you believe would show the effectiveness of their protest?

TreasureKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:22:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And what do you believe would show the effectiveness of their protest? That would depend upon what they are trying to accomplish. Let me put it this way... if it were me and I wanted to see changes made that would reduce and/or eliminate the influence that Wall Street has with our Government, I would take steps to address the issue with the Government. First, because as a voting citizen of this Country, I do have a say (however small) in how the Government is run. I have no influence whatsoever with Wall Street. The Government can impose restrictions on Wall Street. Appealing directly to Wall Street relies upon Wall Street voluntarily taking steps. I don't see that happening.

SternSkipper -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:27:00 PM)
quote: This is the very definition of crony capitalism. It's not the capitalism that's so bad and cause so much outrage (or it shouldn't be), but the government that allows it and the politicians who profit by it. I'll say again ... OWS is in the wrong town. Firm, try to see it this way... In our view, congress is simply a sub-component of an amalgam of business interests that reside outside the capital city. And the Financial Industry is the very core of the amalgam. It ought to be pretty apparent from the amount of time, money and energy these outfits are SPENDING right now to make sure that's what people think we should do.... LET EM! It's good money after bad in my book. A dwindling number of people don't get the principal at this point. The fact is, they HATE that we're in their faces. THEY ABSOLUTELY HATE that our calling for direct action and account closures may well have prevented many of them from making BILLIONS in the coming Holiday Rush. They hate that people are looking at their community with the revile we should have 3 1/2 years ago. They also hate that we have the underlying goal of seeing many of them PROSECUTED. So, with all due respect, we're right in our focus and the short term history supports it.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:30:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And what do you believe would show the effectiveness of their protest? That would depend upon what they are trying to accomplish. Let me put it this way... if it were me and I wanted to see changes made that would reduce and/or eliminate the influence that Wall Street has with our Government, I would take steps to address the issue with the Government. First, because as a voting citizen of this Country, I do have a say (however small) in how the Government is run. I have no influence whatsoever with Wall Street. The Government can impose restrictions on Wall Street. Appealing directly to Wall Street relies upon Wall Street voluntarily taking steps. I don't see that happening. I would think the first order of business for a protest is to be taken seriously. They have managed to gain the attention of all forms of media. The attention of other countries. And the attention of our government. I would view that as extremely effective.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:40:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: This is the very definition of crony capitalism. It's not the capitalism that's so bad and cause so much outrage (or it shouldn't be), but the government that allows it and the politicians who profit by it. I'll say again ... OWS is in the wrong town. Firm, try to see it this way... In our view, congress is simply a sub-component of an amalgam of business interests that reside outside the capital city. And the Financial Industry is the very core of the amalgam. It ought to be pretty apparent from the amount of time, money and energy these outfits are SPENDING right now to make sure that's what people think we should do.... LET EM! It's good money after bad in my book. A dwindling number of people don't get the principal at this point. The fact is, they HATE that we're in their faces. THEY ABSOLUTELY HATE that our calling for direct action and account closures may well have prevented many of them from making BILLIONS in the coming Holiday Rush. They hate that people are looking at their community with the revile we should have 3 1/2 years ago. They also hate that we have the underlying goal of seeing many of them PROSECUTED. So, with all due respect, we're right in our focus and the short term history supports it. Stern, You could well be correct. I acknowledge that I'm not the all-knowing in this, or anything. I am just coming from it from my perspective and my own biases. I have no doubt that the protests are exerting some pressure indirectly on the government. And that some of the "Wall Street" types need a little waking up. Historically, however, I think you are setting yourself up for something other than you may anticipate. In my mind, these type of protest most closely mirror a "labor/management" dispute. The history of what happens to "labor" in such situations, when "management" has control of the reigns of governmental power, isn't pretty. As well, you are handing your opponents a weapon: you can be painted as "hurting commerce", "hurting the working man" in the area ... it can be used against you. If you were conducting a similar protest in Washington, then your activities would be overtly political, and about free speech, and embarrassing for the Federal Government to take the kinds of actions that several cities have already taken against the protesters. So, you are both giving your opponents a weapon (or at least a route of attack) and denying yourself one of your most important defenses. Not to mention that "Wall Street" can't do a damn thing to address what I hear are the major complaints. Do you expect them to "indict" themselves, without the legal power to do so, and in contravention to their own interests? Only the government has the ability to do that So you are putting the pressure on the wrong people, at the wrong place, IMO. Firm

TreasureKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:53:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I would think the first order of business for a protest is to be taken seriously. They have managed to gain the attention of all forms of media. The attention of other countries. And the attention of our government. I would view that as extremely effective. Getting attention doesn't assure being taken seriously. Seems to me there are lots of wackos out there who've gotten the attention of the media, other countries, and the Government. I'm not sure it gained them credibility. Time will only tell how effective this attention will be for OWS. Personally, I think they'd stand a chance at being more effective if they moved their protests a few miles north to around the 700 block of Third Avenue.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 5:54:51 PM)
Stern, On reflection, I do think that there are valid psychological reasons to be "at" Wall Street. I just think it should be only a part of the overall strategy. Hopefully, you have a "Washington strategy", and that will take you down the political road to success. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 6:02:56 PM)
And what attention would have been gained from protesting the Commerce Building?

TreasureKY -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 6:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And what attention would have been gained from protesting the Commerce Building? I was thinking more along the lines of the offices of Senators Gillibrand and Schumer.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 6:09:48 PM)
As a local protest, perhaps... as a national political protest, they wouldnt have gained as much attention. Hit America, especially the politicians, in their wallets and people take notice.... even the threat is enough.

SternSkipper -> RE: Why non anarchists support OWS (10/29/2011 6:16:11 PM)
quote: This article sums up my feeling. There is a reason OWS is spreading. The inequity in this country has become too extreme "Anarchism" is an incorrect assessment of OWS. It bears no resemblance to 'anarchism' That's just a pretty word people throw around to scare each other. Nothing more

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