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Factionalism vs. Citizenship - 10/31/2011 9:20:58 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Haven't been on the forums much in several months until recently but I thought I'd start participating again. Came across this editorial by Justin Raimondo the other day and it spurred some thought:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/10/23/the-return-of-barbarism/

I'm not so much interested in discussing his anti-Libya screed as I am this concept (emphasis mine):


"In a republic, citizens take part in the political process out of a sense of duty, and self-protection. They make it a point of honor to understand the issues, and knowledge, for them, is power. In an empire, however, things are quite different: since the citizens can only influence the course of events to a limited degree, if that, little emphasis is put on acquiring knowledge, and more on acquiring power and influence with the powers that be. If one is aligned with a rising faction, as opposed to siding with the losers, then that’s all one needs to know, and no further investigation is required. Politics, then, is reduced to a battle between rival factions over who gets what share of the loot.
 
This accounts for the increasing emphasis on the “horse race” aspect of politics in the media, and the lack of any real debate over principles and policies. It accounts, indeed, for the dumbing down of American politics, and the cheapening of the discourse in recent years."
 

While I don't think anyone can argue that part of the role of being a "good citizen" is to understand the issues of the day and, in general, to be knowledgeable - do you think that as people feel a loss of influence in the events surrounding them and their society that it results in a rise of factionalism - a need to feel part of the "winning side"? That influence with the current faction in power becomes that modus operandi not only of the "big players" but of the average citizen? Is the goal of the electorate becoming simpyl to get the biggest "share of the loot" and the debate is more over who will have the most loot rather than principles, ethics or policy?

And if this is the case, then isn't the growth of any state based on some form of involved electorate a recipe for disaster? The larger your state is, the less influence any individual can have and as things aggregate into larger and larger entities with increasingly complex and often global interactions, the impact of any individual "average" citizen or voter will continue to shrink - is this a fundamental flaw in the democratic process?

Or is Mr. Raimondo simply mistaking voter anger and apathy for some sort of quasi-tribal factionalism and this is simply some phase that current cultures are going through?

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RE: Factionalism vs. Citizenship - 10/31/2011 10:55:49 PM   
Termyn8or


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It is.

It's really that simple, any division of humans from whatever other humans for any reason is good enough. Has been since the dawn of time. When you are truly greedy you are greedy for the whole planet. You figure you might have to share with three, maybe four people. The slaves are like a factory, rated on their output like an electric motor.

Power isn't just having fifty times more money than Bill Gates. And even with the money, Gates has some deficiencies in the subject, otherwise he would never have been spanked overseas for someting that sounds like a vilolation of Sherman.

When people stay put, civic pride, racism, factionalism and all the are the same thing. When people move around on the globe things change. The racism or racialism for those too delicate or the politically correct, nationalism, patriotism, all of it is the same thing. Like wolves would like to be part of a pack, we want peer acceptance.

Few of us could even seriously consider being accepted by the masses, like Pink Floyd or something. So what we do mentally is to narrow the field, and be happy to have one - concentrate our efforts on those who may be more suseptible, and - two, you get alot better communication.

Why do gangs form ? Sectional - something - isms . That is innate in the human mind and that is why this harsh treatment of anything racial is not right. The subject wil never be fully explored.

In the year 2140 I will be 180 years old. This is your chance to gloat now but before you go I have one thing to say ;

Compliance is futile, you must resist.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 10/31/2011 11:04:04 PM >

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RE: Factionalism vs. Citizenship - 11/1/2011 5:13:00 AM   
DarkSteven


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IB, thanks for posting that.  I've often wondered about the cultural differences between the Arab nations and ours, and you explained one.  They tend to work from emotions and misinformation, as opposed to facts.  One of the reasons is that they're not used to get info from numerous sources, some biased, some not, and reason it out.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Factionalism vs. Citizenship - 11/1/2011 9:15:00 AM   
popeye1250


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IB, as for "getting the biggest share of the loot" surely we can't forget the lobbyists on K Street. Or their biggest employers cos. like G.E., IBM, GM etc.
And "Empire" is never a good thing. look at England, France, Portugl and the Roman Empire.
President Pantload is far worse in that area than Bush ever was.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Factionalism vs. Citizenship - 11/1/2011 5:48:26 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

President Pantload is far worse in that area than Bush ever was.


Quite a stunning piece of news from our regular "independent" contributor, not withstanding that two of the three conflicts were inherited by President Obama.

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