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Faith healing - 11/2/2011 10:36:24 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/faith-healing-parents-sentenced-to-six-years/2011/10/31/gIQA3d51ZM_story.html
This article is about a couple who let their new born baby die rather than seek medical treatment. They are life long members of a church that purportedly practices only faith healing. They are the fourth set of parents that the state of Oregon has prosecuted for failing to seek treatment for their kids, so the state is coming after this church hard.
As far as the adults are concerned, I don't care if they get medical treatment or not. Anything that gets them out of the gene pool is fine with me. Children, especially babies, are something else. I don't even know how these people can stand watching their kids die.
Nonetheless, it seems unfair that the wife got the same sentence. the women in this church seem like slaves in the true sense of the word. No safe word, no calling off the arrangement. If the wife had disobeyed her husband, she could have lost the only life she knew, her family, friends, everything. Plus, i am sure she is barely educated, so she probably couldn't make it on her own. On top of that, she had just given birth and really wasn't in control of the situation. No doubt hubbie would have let her die too, rather than call a doctor.
So, should she have gotten the same sentence? It just doesn't feel right.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 11/2/2011 10:38:05 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 5:34:19 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		While I do have some sympathy for the wife, I can see where the prosecutor is coming from, and it looks like the judge had no choice:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/faith-healing-parents-sentenced-to-six-years/2011/10/31/gIQA3d51ZM_story.html

Herndon gave the couple 75 months in prison, the mandatory minimum under state sentencing guidelines. The sentence also has three years of probation.

...

Prosecutor Mike Regan took a hard line on the couple, saying a strong message needed to be sent to the church, which has a long history of child deaths due to lack of medical treatment.

“These generally are good, decent, law-abiding folks, except in this one narrow area of their lives,” Regan said. “One (area) where they have told us stubbornly — and arrogantly, if I may — that ‘We are not going to change.’”

“The law of civil society demands that they change,” Regan continued. “It demands that we sent a message to all of them that whether you believe this or not in Oregon, you cannot act upon that belief.”

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 9:57:04 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I can see an argument for sterilization here.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 10:01:47 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		In other similar cases to this, sometimes the state has gotten a court order for treatment. The child is cared for, the state intervened and did it's job. The parents have followed the dictates of their faith and still have a living child. The state gives them an out.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 10:22:46 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Not this church. They are pretty secretive, giving birth at home, with church midwives, etc. In a couple of other cases, the state has intervened. I recognize the mother had to get the same sentence, I am just not so sure she should have been convicted, at least of the same crime as the husband.
She did come under a lot of attacks because she wears glasses. It pissed people off that she would see a doctor for her eyes, but not take her dying baby to a doctor.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 10:22:49 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Oh nice, the kid needs medical treatment desperately and the parents choose instead to pray for it.
If it somehow recovers it's a miracle, if it doesn't they didn't pray hard enough.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 10:56:14 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I can see an argument for sterilization here.


Ya. Then again there is also a good fuel for debate about the laws of natural selection. They were so ignorant they felt that believing in some obscure mumbo jumbo was going to heal their offspring. Said offspring dies because of belief in obscure mumbo jumbo... the natural selection thing worked!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 10:57:57 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I was leaning more towards the side of stupidity... they had one child die.. and stated they would allow another if that child also needed medical treatment.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:01:06 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		How unfortunate that the parents do not come down with a very nasty case of........ something I cannot think of at the moment.

Sheesh.......my inner dumbass definitely came to work with me today!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:05:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How unfortunate we cant just whack off his tallywacker.. and plug up her vajajay!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:07:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Well we could kill two birds with one whack, so to speak.

Since it seemed to fit so well already...


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/3/2011 11:08:33 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:09:24 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

How unfortunate that the parents do not come down with a very nasty case of........ something I cannot think of at the moment.

Sheesh.......my inner dumbass definitely came to work with me today!



How about Pelvic Inflammatory Disease? I wonder how long she would suffer before seeking treatment? Hopefully long enough for sterility to ensue!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:16:39 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I guess I am more sympathetic towards the mother than most people are. How unlike me.
I imagine the life expectancy in this church is pretty short.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:21:06 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		My post above was done tongue in cheek. This is a woman who by her guiding principles lost a child.

I do feel for the loss, but it is hard to fathom how a principle could be more important than life.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:46:07 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

My post above was done tongue in cheek. This is a woman who by her guiding principles lost a child.

I do feel for the loss, but it is hard to fathom how a principle could be more important than life.


She probably doesn't see this life as the end and that it is better to follow God's laws (as she understands them) so that she can go to heaven and be rejoined with her loved ones (including her children who have passed) where there is no more illness or death.

I'm not saying I agree with her, but in a way what she is doing is no different from the Christians who died for their principles (choosing death rather than conversion to another religion or sin). To her, getting outside medical help is turning her back on her faith.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 11:58:23 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thats the part I cant get my head around.

"God" gave humans a brain.

With this brain we have discovered ways to heal.

These people ignore that knowledge.

They look to their "God" to heal their child.

Wouldnt it be a odd feeling to get to the judgement, these parents having to explain why their child died... to be told by "god"

"WTF do you think I gave you a brain for? To use to know that your child should be seeing a Dr!"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 12:22:12 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		It's like the man who is stuck in a flood and prays for God to save him. After he dies, he asks God why He didn't save him, and God says "Well, what the heck were you waiting for? I sent a cop, a boat and a helicopter".

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 12:31:53 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Thats the part I cant get my head around.

"God" gave humans a brain.

With this brain we have discovered ways to heal.

These people ignore that knowledge.

They look to their "God" to heal their child.

Wouldnt it be a odd feeling to get to the judgement, these parents having to explain why their child died... to be told by "god"

"WTF do you think I gave you a brain for? To use to know that your child should be seeing a Dr!"

God gave (some portion of) us a cock, too, but that doesn't mean he wants us to stick it in things all willy-nilly. There is no contradiction in our being given something to be used in certain ways and not others. Not necessarily saying the faith-healers' interpretations are correct, but just the same.

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 12:34:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		No need to get in a snit.. i wasnt slamming religions. Just pointing out the illogical thinking of these two.

Btw "God" gave you a cock to reproduce... the fact that you have fun with it is the bonus.

"God" gave man a brain to learn... the fact that you realize you dont know everything is the bonus.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/3/2011 12:36:10 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Faith healing - 11/3/2011 1:19:49 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe I am wrong, but I guess I saw the mother's situation like this. She had just given birth. Further, she had been raised in a church that taught her that her husband's word was the law, pure and simple. So she would have had to get up, and drive her baby to the hospital, against the wishes of her husband and other members of the church who were with her. If she even knew how to drive. She could have called 911, but again, this would have been in defiance of her husband and other church members. Kind of a no win situation for her.
I think if the husband had any balls, he would have said it was completely his decision and that he would have physically prevented her from getting medical intervention. Instead, they both go to jail. Fuck him. I still feel bad for her.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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