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Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:18:18 PM   
xxblushesxx


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I believe there were two guilty parties here. But one of them is dead and doctors are held to a higher standard.

Do you believe this was the correct verdict? What would you have done differently? What are your thoughts on this case?



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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:28:28 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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I agree with the verdict. I agree that doctors are at a higher standard and shouldn't just be "doing stuff" and "prescribing stuff" just because a celebrity wants it.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:33:30 PM   
Delilya


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I am glad he was found guilty and only wish the charge had been higher than involuntary manslaughter.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:37:30 PM   
servantforuse


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One thing for sure. A child molester is no longer here.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:47:29 PM   
Delilya


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For goodness sake, could we please not tear Michael apart in this thread, only the doctor who killed him?

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 1:48:01 PM   
MadAxeman


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The verdict is transparently correct.
The sentence is where right or wrong gets to be demonstrated.
Everybody in this sorry tale is at fault.
Doctors are rightly no longer sacrosanct.
It has to be 'healthy' if this quack is imprisoned and no account taken of his supposed social standing or prison overcrowding. These are not relevant factors for poor people.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:22:37 PM   
littlewonder


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yes it was the right decision but I doubt he'll see the inside of a jail cell and even if he does it will be for less than two years I'm betting.

Either way his life is ruined. Loss of medical license, unable to ever practice again, probably dirt broke by the time he pays any civil lawsuits, lawyers, etc...



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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:30:39 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

 
I believe there were two guilty parties here. But one of them is dead and doctors are held to a higher standard.

Do you believe this was the correct verdict? What would you have done differently? What are your thoughts on this case?





It really was the only viable verdict. There was no intent, no depraved indifference. There was neglect, but again, that wasn't intentional.

While propofol should never have been used as a sleep aid, obviously some alternative should have been found. This drug is regularly used as part of general anethesia and anyone who has gone through such knows that even after you wake up, all you want to do is nap the rest of the day.

What Murray should have done was havea full time nurse or physician's assistant to work shifts with him so that MJ was never alone and should something like this had happened, there wouldn't be a lapse of time of discovery.

Personally, Murray took the position out of greed and a quest for status in my opinion. To work for any kind of celebrity like that leaves you far too open for this type of lawsuit even if something is completely accidental. Can you imagine what Elvis's death would have looked like today? The type of scrutiny HIS doctors would have gone through?

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/7/2011 2:31:05 PM >

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:33:34 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

I am glad he was found guilty and only wish the charge had been higher than involuntary manslaughter.


You have an obvious lack of understanding of the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

For goodness sake, could we please not tear Michael apart in this thread, only the doctor who killed him?


Was he a personal friend of yours? Because the fact is that even if he didn't sexually abuse the children he was accused of, he caused a great deal of psychological damage to the children that were his, and while they understandably miss their father, they are flourishing and much better off now that he is no longer actively in their lives.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:38:30 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Was he a personal friend of yours? Because the fact is that even if he didn't sexually abuse the children he was accused of, he caused a great deal of psychological damage to the children that were his, and while they understandably miss their father, they are flourishing and much better off now that he is no longer actively in their lives.


And you know this how?


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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:42:20 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Was he a personal friend of yours? Because the fact is that even if he didn't sexually abuse the children he was accused of, he caused a great deal of psychological damage to the children that were his, and while they understandably miss their father, they are flourishing and much better off now that he is no longer actively in their lives.


And you know this how?



Look at videos of them while he was alive and videos of them now.

Common sense will tell you that never allowing your children out and covering their faces whenever you do is going to do psychological damage.

But since you are just looking to be a bitch as usual, it doesn't really matter.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 2:52:54 PM   
LaTigresse


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Aren't you just precious!

You ask someone if they were a personal friend, basically accusing them of making a statement with no real knowledge, then do the same ridiculous thing.

Oh because you saw video and photos and are such a bloody great expert you just KNOW those kids were horribly damaged by their father's behaviour.

Don't be a stupid bint.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 3:01:45 PM   
Delilya


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lafayette

But since you are just looking to be a bitch as usual, it doesn't really matter.


I can say for certain that LaTigresse has never attacked me for no reason. You, not so much.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 3:39:41 PM   
LizDeluxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya
I am glad he was found guilty and only wish the charge had been higher than involuntary manslaughter.


What charge do you feel would have been legally appropriate?

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 3:51:37 PM   
Delilya


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya
I am glad he was found guilty and only wish the charge had been higher than involuntary manslaughter.


What charge do you feel would have been legally appropriate?



At least manslaughter. He was a doctor using an anesthetic in an unsafe environment and then left MJ alone. He Knew the dangers and still proceeded. I know, according to the law it was what he had to be charged with, but I can "Wish" it were different. He'll end up with a slap on the wrist and to me that is unacceptable when he has caused a death. It isn't as if he were someone off the street who didn't know what Could (and did) happen.


< Message edited by Delilya -- 11/7/2011 4:38:13 PM >


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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 5:03:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Aren't you just precious!

You ask someone if they were a personal friend, basically accusing them of making a statement with no real knowledge, then do the same ridiculous thing.

Oh because you saw video and photos and are such a bloody great expert you just KNOW those kids were horribly damaged by their father's behaviour.

Don't be a stupid bint.



Actually, it's common sense. The youngest is still suffering from the effects of not simply his father's death but the life he had with his father. The other two are out in the world like real people, something totally new.

Instead of being such a bitch, why don't you try asking any therapist if the way those kids lived while their father was alive was healthy?

Oh that's right, because you are too smart for that.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 5:08:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya
I am glad he was found guilty and only wish the charge had been higher than involuntary manslaughter.


What charge do you feel would have been legally appropriate?



At least manslaughter. He was a doctor using an anesthetic in an unsafe environment and then left MJ alone. He Knew the dangers and still proceeded. I know, according to the law it was what he had to be charged with, but I can "Wish" it were different. He'll end up with a slap on the wrist and to me that is unacceptable when he has caused a death. It isn't as if he were someone off the street who didn't know what Could (and did) happen.



Uh, he WAS charged with manslaughter. What you are describing is negligent homicide. Obviously, there was enough evidence that they didn't think they would get a guilty verdict with that charge. More than likely, MJ's own involvement and the evidence that he insisted on this protocol.

People are not always charged with the crime they commit. Prosecutorswill often charge with what they are sure they can get the "win" for. Would you rather he be charged with negligent homicide and be found not guilty at all, or have him found guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

Honestly, the majority of these high profile cases shouldn't even be in the news because the general public has such a lack of understanding of how the law works, they always misunderstand the whole thing.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 5:28:00 PM   
Delilya


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Did you see the part where I said Wish? Not should've, not could've, but Wish.

Thank you for stopping by my profile. I always enjoy visitors.

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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 6:51:39 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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I am not and was not a Michael Jackson fan.  I believed him to be mentally ill, based on his actions, and I don't believe that his upbringing was such that he had any idea of how to be a good parent.  I also always thought he was a pedophile.
All of this is just my opinion, however, and is solely based on what I read about him  over the years, although that was pretty extensive.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that his kids are better off, I am sure they are pretty traumatized, the Jackson family being what it is.  Still, I have to agree with LL that they may now have a chance for a more normal upbringing.

I am not gonna weigh in on the "who is the biggest bitch" argument.  I like you both.

As to the OP, like Delilya, I wish something more could be done.  I could google this, but has this guy lost his medical license?  He was grossly irresponsible, unlike a lawyer, a doctor has absolute veto power in treating a patient, regardless of the patient's wishes.  Murray knew the drug was harmful, and I suspect he know that Michael was not particularly mentally stable.  I also think the plastic surgeons who made Michael end up looking like a freak should have their licenses yanked. 


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RE: Conrad Murray Found Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter - 11/7/2011 10:39:01 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

I am not and was not a Michael Jackson fan.  I believed him to be mentally ill, based on his actions, and I don't believe that his upbringing was such that he had any idea of how to be a good parent.  I also always thought he was a pedophile.
All of this is just my opinion, however, and is solely based on what I read about him  over the years, although that was pretty extensive.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that his kids are better off, I am sure they are pretty traumatized, the Jackson family being what it is.  Still, I have to agree with LL that they may now have a chance for a more normal upbringing.

I am not gonna weigh in on the "who is the biggest bitch" argument.  I like you both.

As to the OP, like Delilya, I wish something more could be done.  I could google this, but has this guy lost his medical license?  He was grossly irresponsible, unlike a lawyer, a doctor has absolute veto power in treating a patient, regardless of the patient's wishes.  Murray knew the drug was harmful, and I suspect he know that Michael was not particularly mentally stable.  I also think the plastic surgeons who made Michael end up looking like a freak should have their licenses yanked. 



While I don't buy into LaToya's theory that there were others involved (entirely), I do think that Murray was a scapegoat covering others involved in this mess, right up through the producers of the event.

As for more being done....look at how celebrities get treated. MJ had sleep overs with children for years and admitted to serving them wine. He held his youngest son out an upper story window by the armpits and no one investigated his parenting skills? Mel Gibson goes on a wild drunken tirade with whis ex, does he do jail time? Lindsay Lohan has been sentenced how many times now but has served only HOURS due to overcrowding? Winona Ryder, Nick Nolte, the list goes on and on.

Studios, managers and agents get the drugs for their stars, it is considered normal in Hollywood. How was Drew Barrymore able to be an addict by the age of five?

Even here, when one dies, we have a "Rest In Peace" thread where everyone mourns the loss of such talent. When they die of an overdose, they committed suicide.

Do more? Should Murray have taken a stronger position with a demanding star (pop icon)? Maybe, but he would have been fired and we all know it. MJ wanted that drug, he demanded that drug. It's sad that Conrad Murray didn't have the guts and backbone to say no. MJ was falling apart bit by bit and it was sad that he needed to perform financially, but he was in no condition to do so.

You look at those children now. At the memorial, they were of course grieving, but also kind of shocked at being out in the open without cover or disguise. Prince Michael and Paris have chosen to go to public school, they are thriving, making friends going place with those friends. These are things they were never allowed to do! The last concert where they spoke, you can see two very strong, happy children who are representing their father with pride and dignity. Blanket still won't attend school. Y'all think that is pure grief? That poor child is afraid of the world because he lived in a different world.

Those children will miss their father forever, there is no doubt about it. However, the life they are living now gives them the opportunity they wouldn't have had if MJ had lived. These children get to be children. To live, to have friends and to walk in the world without encumbrance. Yes it is a shame they lost him before they were older, but they are not simply surviving, they are thriving.

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