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Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 4:56:40 PM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		Correcting the Fairy Tale
    In August the New Yorker delivered a riveting blow-by-blow of the SEALs’ May 1, 2011 raid on bin Laden’s hideaway. In that account, later reported to lack contributions from the SEALs involved, readers are taken through a mission that began with a top-secret helicopter crashing and led to a bottom-up assault of the Abbottabad compound...

    Chuck Pfarrer rejects almost all of that story.

    "The version of the 45-minute firefight, and the ground-up assault, and the cold-blooded murder on the third floor — that wasn’t the mission," Pfarrer told TheDC...

    The helicopters, called "Stealth Hawks," are inconspicuous machines concealing cutting-edge technology. They entered the compound as planned, with "Razor 1" disembarking its team of SEALs on the roof of the compound — not on the ground level. There was no crash landing. That wouldn’t occur until after bin Laden was dead.

    Meanwhile, "Razor 2" took up a hovering position so that its on-board snipers, some of whom had also participated in the sea rescue of Maersk Alabama captain Richard Phillips, had a clear view of anyone fleeing the compound.

    The SEALs then dropped down from the roof, immediately penetrated the third floor, and hastily encountered bin Laden in his room. He was not standing still.

    "He dived across the king-size bed to get at the AKSU rifle he kept by the headboard," wrote Pfarrer in his book. It was at that moment, a mere 90 seconds after the SEALs first set foot on the roof, that two American bullets shattered bin Laden’s chest and head...
Pfarrer has written a book about the raid called SEAL Target Geronimo: The Inside Story of the Mission to Kill Osama bin Laden, based on interviews with members of the SEAL team that carried out the mission.

K.
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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:05:59 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Orion started this topic about the same thing K
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3912862/tm.htm
:)

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:09:28 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Orion started this topic about the same thing K
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3912862/tm.htm
:)

Oops, sorry... I scanned the topic titles to make sure before posting, but I didn't recognize the connection.

Mea culpa. Thanks.

K.

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:16:32 PM   
SternSkipper


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Status: offline 		So where's the evidence that Chuck Pfarrer actually interviewed anyone involved in the raid?
I mean third party confirmation. Not saying he didn't, but this guy's from Mass and has been called on a few things in the past. He went all expert during the swift boat days backing that crap up and then recanted.
So, I'd love to see where HE was granted any interviews.



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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:17:25 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Orion started this topic about the same thing K
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3912862/tm.htm
:)

Oops, sorry... I scanned the topic titles to make sure before posting, but I didn't recognize the connection.

Mea culpa. Thanks.

K.

:) No problem:)


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 11/7/2011 5:18:48 PM >

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:18:06 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Status: offline 		he is dead for better or worse, who gives a shit about how it happened?

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:20:30 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

he is dead for better or worse, who gives a shit about how it happened?


I think they just want to have the word 'liar' in the air all the time.



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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:24:19 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Status: offline 		who's been doing the lying? Oh hang on, everyone

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:25:01 PM   
FirstQuaker


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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:34:07 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Pfarrer himself has been accused of inventing the truth about this:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Americas/US-dismisses-claim-of-Osama-s-death-within-90-seconds-of-raid/Article1-766106.aspx

For me, if it's a question of believing Seymour Hersh or Chuck Pfarrer, I'm going to believe Seymour Hersh.

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:55:48 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

For me, if it's a question of believing Seymour Hersh or Chuck Pfarrer, I'm going to believe Seymour Hersh.

I dunno... personally, I've never believed that story of the raid.

If you're assaulting a walled compound with low-noise helicopters that allow you to sweep in quickly, you don't fucking drop your teams outside the walls where they have to start by fighting their way in. That just increases the risks, adds time to the mission, and gives up the element of surprise.

K.

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 5:57:51 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Im not sure why people would believe this Chuck Pfarrer tho K..
I dont think the story that "came out" was the truth by any stretch of the imagination, but im also having trouble believing this guy was the recipient of the facts either.

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 6:00:39 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

who's been doing the lying? Oh hang on, everyone

Ask 'the experts'


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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 6:06:55 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

For me, if it's a question of believing Seymour Hersh or Chuck Pfarrer, I'm going to believe Seymour Hersh.


Count me in Seymour's survived more right wing character assassination than any man in the world I think.
   Back in the 04 KerryHunt aka Republican presidential campaign, the Swift Boat Captains started to show some holes in their stories and Chuck came forward as a marine combat and reconnaissance expert. And was actually getting some headlines till one of the local Journalists not only refuted what he was saying, but also quickly pointed out that he was too young to have ever done anything besides tour a sneaker factory in post-war Vietnam.
 


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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 6:26:54 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

For me, if it's a question of believing Seymour Hersh or Chuck Pfarrer, I'm going to believe Seymour Hersh.

Count me in...


Hersh's 1997 book about John F. Kennedy, The Dark Side of Camelot, made a number of controversial assertions about the former president, including that he had had a "first marriage" to a woman named Durie Malcolm that was never terminated, that he had been a semi-regular narcotics user, that he had a close working relationship with mob boss Sam Giancana which supposedly included vote fraud in one or two crucial states in the 1960 presidential election. For many of these claims, Hersh relied only on hearsay collected decades after the event. In a Los Angeles Times review, Edward Jay Epstein cast doubt on these and other assertions, writing, "this book turns out to be, alas, more about the deficiencies of investigative journalism than about the deficiencies of John F. Kennedy." Responding to the book, historian and former Kennedy aide Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. called Hersh "the most gullible investigative reporter I've ever encountered." ~Wikipedia

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/7/2011 6:28:38 PM >

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 6:39:25 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Im not sure why people would believe this Chuck Pfarrer tho K..
I dont think the story that "came out" was the truth by any stretch of the imagination, but im also having trouble believing this guy was the recipient of the facts either.


Here's what I think.
On or about the day they said it happened, Bin Laden was shot to death /// or maybe he was just pushed down a wicked long flight of stairs.
And it was either the navy seals or OWS protesters.
What should we make of it?
The navy seals (or OWS) killed Bin Laden
And they did so under the direction of the president
Or not
...Depends



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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 6:53:05 PM   
SternSkipper


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But lets get back to the original question about Chuck Pfarrer instead of telling us about all the various books you haven't read. Where's the independent confirmation Chuck interviewed Seal team Six?
That I believe was my original request for information. Have you read the book? Because I have... and the Wiki is at best misleading... He cites the source of the accounts about the morphine and Giancana as coming from the journal and kind of leaves it up to the reader to judge.




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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 7:06:47 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Where's the independent confirmation Chuck interviewed Seal team Six?

If he didn't, that would be a very serious accusation. But where's the independent confirmation of that? You have none. You're just blowing smoke. And, as usual, it's dirty smoke, in keeping with your trademark tactic of resorting to personal innuendo when you haven't anything substantial to put forward.

K.

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 9:29:48 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Where's the independent confirmation Chuck interviewed Seal team Six?

If he didn't, that would be a very serious accusation. But where's the independent confirmation of that? You have none. You're just blowing smoke. And, as usual, it's dirty smoke, in keeping with your trademark tactic of resorting to personal innuendo when you haven't anything substantial to put forward.

K.

Actually SoComm says he didn't interview any members of the team. It is odd though, the identities of SEAL team 6 is very highly classified, for their and their families' safety, so just identifying any active member of the team is a felony so who risked prison to set up these interviews? Much less why would a SEAL team operatr risk ending his career and spending several years in prison to give an interview to this guy?

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RE: Story of Bin Laden raid called "fairy tale" - 11/7/2011 9:37:34 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

If he didn't, that would be a very serious accusation. But where's the independent confirmation of that? You have none.


So your final statement on the matter is you can't produce evidence he interviewed anyone. Kay gotchya... and I'm the one blowing smoke
Whatever you say bud ... whatever you say


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