More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (Full Version)

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RichardAS -> More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/10/2011 11:09:49 PM)

I'm new to being a 'relationship' Dom, although I have a fairly wide experience in and exposure to BDSM. I'm one of those types who began BDSM play at 5yo.
I would never consider myself to be sadistic, nor that I would derive satisfation from hurting someone.
However, I just punished my submissive for the first time - which was a serious punishment, not play. After I was done whipping my submissive, I discovered that I had generated a serious amount of pre-cum. This took me by complete surprise.
The thought of being sadistic is - honestly - repellent to me; but I can't deny what my body has told me. I obviously got off on punishing my submissive until she cried.
So I find myself unable to accept my own reaction to what I have done. In all honesty, I have thought of sadism as mentally ill or sick ... but now I find myself no different. This is really sending me on a spin ... big time.
I do not understand sadism ... never have. But here I am, and it's like becoming my own enemy. For me, to deliberately take pleasure from the suffering of another is the most inhumane of actions. Yet here I am.
Why am I posting this? I guess I need someone to somehow make it ok for me to derive satisfaction from the suffering of others. Because I do not know how to do this. It is a serious unpheaval to my own self-identity.
I am simply too compassionate to enjoy such things - or so I would have thought. A D/s relationship is one thing, but to venture into the S/M aspect is something I would never have suspected my being capable of.
The most I can say is that I eventually know everything about my partner, and that I am exacting about what I want and how I want it. I can also add that, if these particulars are not met, I am not happy at all. But it seems a massive difference between knowing what I want to enjoying hurting someone for not meeting my expectations.
If anyone has real guidance for me, I would very much appreciate it.



GreedyTop -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/10/2011 11:26:10 PM)

being a sadist does not mean you cant be compassionate, or loving, etc.



myotherself -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/10/2011 11:39:00 PM)

Being a sadist does not make you a bad person.

My Master is a sadist, and I deliberately sought out one like him because I enjoy the pain. It makes me scream, howl, beg and cry, but I love it.

Does that make him a bully? Not in the slightest. He's warm, loving, compassionate, funny, romantic, caring...all that good stuff. It just so happens that beating me makes him hard.

I've had relationships with 'new' sadists who have had this same mental block. To be honest, there's not much more anyone can say other than it's perfectly normal and, if you are careful with what you do to your sub, then it's safe too.

My only thoughts would be that you seem to equate pain with punishment. Maybe if you tried to turn it on its head and give pain for pleasure, then you may relax more and enjoy it? Flogging, for example, is fairly gentle and might be something that both you and your sub can enjoy together.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 3:31:58 AM)

~FR~
Being a sadist does not make someone a bad personor mean your not compassionate. I'm a sadist and love to make someone scream, but I also give loving aftercare in copious doses....unless the sub says they don't want it. Also, I'm a Domme who bottoms to her also Dominant sadistic partner every so often just for the sensations, even though I control what's happening to me.

On the other hand, although I love to make someone scream, it's only if they're enjoying it. I don't enjoy punishing, because punishing would only happen if the sub did something seriously wrong which I would seriously not be happy about. In those cases, I'd normally just talk it out with him anyway & find ways together for it to not happen again.

NBMG



Ary -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 3:46:11 AM)

In my opinion you just need to keep apart what´s your kink (and hers) and what is "the real world". It´s not like you are yanking the wings of flies for kicks, as it´s consensual.
There is nothing wrong with sadism in the right context, and the fact that you are worried about feeling sadistic sounds like a good thing to me in a way, as it indicates that you probably wont take it too far. So if you compartmentalize it, its not so bad is it?
Personally I would be very disappointed if my partner suddenly didn´t get pleasure from inflicting pain, as things would never be the same again...... ;)



LillyBoPeep -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 4:18:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS

Why am I posting this? I guess I need someone to somehow make it ok for me to derive satisfaction from the suffering of others.
<snip>

The most I can say is that I eventually know everything about my partner, and that I am exacting about what I want and how I want it. I can also add that, if these particulars are not met, I am not happy at all. But it seems a massive difference between knowing what I want to enjoying hurting someone for not meeting my expectations.


first off, welcome welcome to the collarme forums.

nobody can make it okay for you to enjoy sadism, you have to do that for yourself really. you have to jump over your own hurdles and change your thought processes -- read Kana's super-gnarly response to the "Dom who feels guilty about being one" thread.
i saw that you posted on it, but did you check out the rest of the thread? it's basically about this topic.
you may have grown up believing that it's wrong to hit girls no matter what. it's difficult to rationalize hurting someone you also love. talking to people on the other side of the equation might be helpful to you, but at the end of the day, all of the mental gymnastics are up to you.

also, you might have a better time of it if you play with sadism just because you want to, and not only as punishments. punishments are always negative and it might complicate the whole process if you only see sadism as doing something negative to someone. you can do something positive and still get the same experience. by "positive" i mean that it's not framed as a punishment, but rather something you do for your own enjoyment.

on your profile, you state that your sub is new to basically everything. do you have any idea if she is a masochist, or willing to accept sensation/pain play just because you want to do it, or any of the other myriad of reasons we s-folk  give for wanting to do this? i have a hard time understanding how you haven't experienced sadism in all these years, but i guess everyone's experience is different. do you go to club or group events? if so, have you watched other people's S&M scenes? if you don't, maybe you could try going to a few -- events can be weird, though. they're usually run by a group and the groups create whatever environment they want, and at some groups you may only see mild flogging and mild paddling, while at other groups you might see people involved in more intense things.

a lot of people have difficulty bringing out their intensity in public because of the possibility of negative judgment by the group members. so bear that in mind. but if you haven't been to a group event, it still might help you see and talk to others who enjoy sadism, from either side.

it's totally okay to be sadistic as long as you're with a partner who consents -- and consent is a complicated topic in and of itself =p it's not necessarily about being asked every single time, but it can just be woven into the foundation of the relationship. in a committed relationship (not a casual experience at a party), i respond to consensual non-consent, which is basically a dynamic where my overt consent isn't needed. other people, however, have different opinions on how consent works, and it just kind of depends on how your dynamic runs.

some of us really enjoy being on the other side of sadism, and yes -- even if we really hate what's happening at the time. =p we seek it out and crave receiving it just as much as someone might crave to give it. personally, i think i would get very bored in a relationship that lacked it. i don't want a relationship that's always about what I want, especially where S&M is concerned,  and i'm trying to learn how it works from the giver's side to kind of round out my understanding. it can be a complicated process to become "okay" with it, if you have a lot of barriers in your head.
but a partner can gain the same amount of pleasure from suffering for you, as you get from causing the suffering. you might have to go slowly with the girl you've got since she's new to everything. but it could be a very interesting growing experience for both of you to take together.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 4:19:02 AM)

I had a very similar reaction when I discovered I was a sadist. When I first came out as a domme, I told myself this: "I don't really get off on spanking people, I just do it b/c subs seem to like it and it's expected of a dominant."

Well, that was a pile of bull crap.

Eventually I had to admit I was a sadist.

At first, this realization threw me for a loop. I had to spend time thinking about why that was, what it meant about me, as a person, all that jazz. I finally came to a remarkable conclusion: Being a sadist (and a masochist) is what is normal FOR ME (big surprise there).

That allowed me to jump the real hurdle: acceptance. I've accepted that sexually I am sadistic or masochistic, depending on who I am with. I have accepted that sexually I am on the more extreme side of normal. This is just who I am. It is not ALL of who I am.

And since I take great care in playing with my boykin, and have take great care to find a dominant who might hurt me but will never harm me, I'm good.

That I have some aspects of my personality that are on the more extreme side of normal is something I can accept.

Recent research is proving more and more that both these things are part of normal sexual behavior when you are talking consenting adults having a blast and getting high on their own sexuality.

So, I totally understand the soul searching you are going through, Richard. Please, if at all possible, try to concentrate on acceptance.

Best, Chatte



LadyHibiscus -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 5:56:44 AM)

I don't know what's up with me, because I am "??" That you whipped a new submissive for some infraction hard enough to get excited.

Okay, you have a punishment dynamic. Is there some kind of "punishment fits the crime" scale? Were you angry when you whipped her? Was she deliberately disobeying, or was this a failure in the chain of command?

Playing is fun. Sadism is fun. Punishment...is not fun. I never feel good if I have to punish someone, ever.

Just some thoughts.



Kana -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 6:46:55 AM)

Dude, as oxymoronish as it sounds, just because you like hurting people, that doesn't mean you're a bad human being.
I'm kind, considerate, giving, caring, trustworthy, decent and compassionate. I also like to do things like nail a slut's tits to a board and then spend twenty minutes on her nipples with a cheese-grater, salt and the hammer.
They, despite my fears and societal conditioning that said otherwise, are not mutually exclusive things.

Just find a gal who likes/needs/wants/craves/desires/lives for painplay and you are set cuz then it's not she doing you a favor, but rather you her. Which makes all the difference...and then some.
Hell yeah, then you have guilt free ticket to ride



OsideGirl -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 7:19:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS
In all honesty, I have thought of sadism as mentally ill or sick
Nonconsentual sadism is mentally ill or sick. It means you derive pleasure from someone else's suffering with no thought or concern for that person. There's a large difference between that and what we do.

Next, there's a little sadist in every human being on earth. It's what causes us to gape at accidents and laugh at other people getting speeding tickets.

Lastly, hurting someone and doing harm to someone are two different things. If you're hurting your submissive without harming her and everyone is having fun....it's all good.

I'm going to echo what everyone here said. You can be a sadist and be a good person. You can be a sadist and be compassionate. It's one little facet of who you are, it doesn't define the entirety.





ChatteParfaitt -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 7:55:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I don't know what's up with me, because I am "??" That you whipped a new submissive for some infraction hard enough to get excited.

Okay, you have a punishment dynamic. Is there some kind of "punishment fits the crime" scale? Were you angry when you whipped her? Was she deliberately disobeying, or was this a failure in the chain of command?

Playing is fun. Sadism is fun. Punishment...is not fun. I never feel good if I have to punish someone, ever.

Just some thoughts.


I picked up on that as well. It seemed odd to me but I figure he's new. So many begin with a discipline dynamic b/c they are unsure of their dominance. Once you understand you're the dominant, you understand you can spank your sub b/c you want to. That's reason enough.

However, in retrospect I realized the "punishment is not supposed to be fun" concept is a basic that should never be overlooked.







poise -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 8:09:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS
I would never consider myself to be sadistic, nor that I would derive satisfation from hurting someone.
However, I just punished my submissive for the first time - which was a serious punishment, not play. After I was done whipping my submissive, I discovered that I had generated a serious amount of pre-cum. This took me by complete surprise.

I don't feel that having a fair amount of pre-cum from whipping your girl makes you a sadist anymore
than getting an erection from watching gay porn means you are gay. There are many sadists that
enjoy what they do simply for the emotional charge, and their sexual reaction is secondary or non existent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS
For me, to deliberately take pleasure from the suffering of another is the most inhumane of actions.

You did not enter into this punishment with the intent on getting your jollies off, and the fact that you
only experienced a physical reaction yet was mentally repulsed by it, doesn't mean you're a sadist.
So far, the world is still safe from your evilness!

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS
I need someone to somehow make it ok for me to derive satisfaction from the suffering of others. Because I do not know how to do this. It is a serious unpheaval to my own self-identity.

Now you're talking! The good news is, there are many women out there that can make this ok for you.
Please re-read all of the posts above this one. And then read them again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAS
But it seems a massive difference between knowing what I want to enjoying hurting someone for not meeting my expectations.

Sometimes good communication is all that's needed to make necessary corrections in behavior.
You really need to be careful in confusing her punishment with your pleasure, because you can
sometimes set up a relationship to flounder in order to validate your need to punish her.



CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 8:38:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I don't know what's up with me, because I am "??" That you whipped a new submissive for some infraction hard enough to get excited.

Okay, you have a punishment dynamic. Is there some kind of "punishment fits the crime" scale? Were you angry when you whipped her? Was she deliberately disobeying, or was this a failure in the chain of command?

Playing is fun. Sadism is fun. Punishment...is not fun. I never feel good if I have to punish someone, ever.

Just some thoughts.


I like this, never got into "punishment" though that can be play...or as NicebutMean said, if there was issues, more than likely talked it out, tried to work the situation through.

That being said...in a sexual context, I love to cause pain, a lot of pain. To play between pleasure and pain, to push boundaries and expectations; to go from gentle to sadistic and back again... I personally find a lot of the interest in giving pain is a lot of the mental involved. The trust, the willingness to endure to please, etc.

I have stayed away from "punishing" using physical force because I do not want to cause pain when anger, frustration, disappointment, and other negative emotions might be involved...I find that pain is more exciting in the sexually derived emotions. I also find that it can become quite revealing...afterwards some of the insights, discussion, intensity can be overwhelming for her and the trust to show you that aspect, that intimacy is beautiful.

A certain cleansing aspect...



LillyBoPeep -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 8:47:01 AM)

i dunno... i don't really have an issue with being an object of someone else's catharsis. i figure if i can accept it, i can provide it... it just depends on the people involved and how the react, blah blah blah...



HannahLynn -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 9:09:50 AM)

welcome to the fucking dark side.

you're worried that being a sadist means you're mentally ill or sick. well stop worrying, you're right. if you get off on hurting some fucker you are sick. don't bother fighting it, its you, it can't be fixed or changed or altered, accept it, embrace it, sit back, relax and enjoy the fucking ride, its like no other.

if your morals bother you, then stick to hurting masos, they're just as fucked in the head as you are. its a fucking yin and yang thing, they were put on this earth for your entertainment, and you for theirs.

you want guidance? learn what the fuck you are doing so you can cause all the fucking pain you want without causing any actual harm. learn your partner well, study her, talk to her, watch her during play so you know what works for her and what doesn't, learn how to give her the fucking thrills she needs to suffer for your thrills. the two of you are like a fucking team. or better yet think of it like dance partners, the music is lovely, but together you bring the music to life, raise it to the level of the fucking sublime.

and relax. you're not a monster, you're not special, you're just another sick ass motherfucker. there are a shit load of us and for the most part we're right fucking good people.



crazyml -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 9:57:58 AM)

That pretty much nails it.



RichardAS -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 10:51:22 AM)

Wow, I am LMFAO (tears) and feeling warm and fuzzy at the same time.

Thank you all who have replied. I am insured against world-wide sadism. I took out a policy yesterday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
also, you might have a better time of it if you play with sadism just because you want to, and not only as punishments. punishments are always negative and it might complicate the whole process if you only see sadism as doing something negative to someone. you can do something positive and still get the same experience. by "positive" i mean that it's not framed as a punishment, but rather something you do for your own enjoyment.

This is MOST helpful.

As far as the punishment went, it was severely delayed. I had to wait until my sub was over her allergies since I was going to gag her and she needed to breathe. So there wasn't much in the way of anger or so, just the punishment that we both knew was coming. No real emotional investment, just the punishment.

Now I want that bitch, and she needs some fancy, cutting welts to match her fancy, cutting commentaries. Given her proclivities, there will be no end to it.

With love and adoration,
- Richard



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 1:07:42 PM)

Hi Richard, I'm one of Hanners' girls <the crazy one with the axe> I'm not a sadist, I'm a sadist's partner, so I approach things from a different angle of course. But I want to really stress that if you are going to indulge in your sadistic bent then you absolutely MUST separate it from any punishment.

Otherwise you will be punishing her for entertainment, then you will start looking for excuses to punish her, and that will lead to her feeling like she can never do anything right, and will kill off the relationship pretty quickly. We don't do any sort of punishment, if Hanners is unhappy with me or I have done something wrong, we sit down and talk about it. The beatings and things are reserved for fun times, she hurts me whenever she wants to. Its play, its part of our sex life, not part of our domestic arrangement. You need to do that, otherwise you will really be tearing her down, and while it may appeal to your sadistic side somewhat, that is crossing over into unethical behaviour.




Kana -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/11/2011 10:55:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Hi Richard, I'm one of Hanners' girls <the crazy one with the axe> I'm not a sadist, I'm a sadist's partner, so I approach things from a different angle of course. But I want to really stress that if you are going to indulge in your sadistic bent then you absolutely MUST separate it from any punishment.

Otherwise you will be punishing her for entertainment, then you will start looking for excuses to punish her, and that will lead to her feeling like she can never do anything right, and will kill off the relationship pretty quickly. We don't do any sort of punishment, if Hanners is unhappy with me or I have done something wrong, we sit down and talk about it. The beatings and things are reserved for fun times, she hurts me whenever she wants to. Its play, its part of our sex life, not part of our domestic arrangement. You need to do that, otherwise you will really be tearing her down, and while it may appeal to your sadistic side somewhat, that is crossing over into unethical behaviour.




Absolutely seconded. There's no need to use punishment as an excuse for sadism. In fact I would argue that doing so damages the relationship and erodes trust.
Own your shit.
When ya want to hurt her, hurt her and if she asks why, say, " As a sub/slave your purpose in my life is to make me happy. Right now, your screams make me happy."
And then go about the business of making the slut howl.

But don't fuck with her head, invent reasons/infractions/imagined sleights to punish her. That's just shitty behavior.



Awareness -> RE: More excited by sadism than I thought possible. (11/12/2011 3:50:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Nonconsentual sadism is mentally ill or sick. It means you derive pleasure from someone else's suffering with no thought or concern for that person. There's a large difference between that and what we do.
  Oh really?  So the difference between someone who's mentally ill and your garden variety CollarMe sadist is dependent upon what's going on in the mind of the masochist?

You may want to rephrase that in a way which makes it sound significantly less retarded.   Or alternatively, come up with an argument which doesn't sound like a bunch of rancid pig's vomit.

quote:

Next, there's a little sadist in every human being on earth. It's what causes us to gape at accidents and laugh at other people getting speeding tickets.
  No, we gape at accidents because they're rare events outside our normal experience and we enjoy schadenfreude because it's the foundation of comedy.  Neither of those two things have anything remotely to do with sadism.

quote:

Lastly, hurting someone and doing harm to someone are two different things. If you're hurting your submissive without harming her and everyone is having fun....it's all good.
  Right.  And what exactly is the difference here?  Someone explain to me where the dividing line is between the two - because it seems pretty fucking nebulous to me.

quote:

I'm going to echo what everyone here said. You can be a sadist and be a good person. You can be a sadist and be compassionate. It's one little facet of who you are, it doesn't define the entirety.
  Yeah, that kinda sounds like "if you smoke but don't inhale..."



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