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Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 5:32:59 AM   
MrRodgers


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We and particularly those who have served, often on days like this, think of our
compatriots still with us and those who have fallen in battle.

I think of our entire past and it's always with me, I think back to our early history.
I then think of how it is that the ordinary people of settled mature country could
be inspired to go to war...against it.

Yes, there are questions as to just how the govt. often helped create such a war
feeling among the people but what about at a time when there was NO US govt.
yet 'we' went to war. Every thought of that ?

They couldn't really be fighting for country...a country that didn't even exist yet. NO !!
They were fighting for liberty...freedom. READ IT ALL

Those soon become thoughts of people who were truly unique among the world's 'war-makers.'
Think about this today.....they pledged...everything, everything they enjoyed and for what ?
For a prime example...here's a thought.

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.
Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the revolutionary army,
another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the revolutionary war.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.
Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners,
men of means, well educated. But they signed the
Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty
would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships
swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts,
and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he
was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress
WITHOUT PAY and his family was kept in hiding.
His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of Ellery, Clymer, Hall,
Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr.,
noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the
Nelson home for his headquarters.
The owner quietly urged General George Washington to open fire.
The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife,
and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife’s bedside as she was dying.
Their 13 children fled for their lives.
His fields and his grist mill were laid to waste.
For more than a year he lived in forests and caves,
returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished.
A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.

Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.
These were not wild eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians.
They were soft-spoken men of means and education.
They had security, but they valued liberty more.
Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged:

“For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence,
we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 7:23:50 AM   
Kirata


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Thanks for that...

K.

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 8:07:21 AM   
slvemike4u


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Amazing men,amazing times ....how often have we ,as a nation, looked back at both the men and the times for succor,inspiration and yes even guidance .

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 8:17:45 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of ...Gwinnett...

Sorry to be picky, but this is not historically accurate.

Button Gwinnett, the youngest man to sign the Declaration of Independence, wrote the original draft of Georgia's first State Constitution. He soon became Speaker of the Georgia Assembly, a position he held until the death of the President (Governor) of Georgia, Archibald Bulloch. Gwinnett was elevated to the vacated position by the Assembly’s Executive Council becoming the second Governor of the state of Georgia.

He did not have his properties looted by "Vandals or soldiers or both" or Tories, for that matter. He died in a duel fought against a political rival, Lachlan McIntosh, (who was also the husband of Gwinett's mistress), in May of 1777. After his death, his plantation was sold by his family to pay off Gwinett's many outstanding gambling debts.

Button Gwinett was a Patriot and a Founding Father - but let's not lie about him. He was also a normal man with virtues and failings - no better or worse than any human being at any time.




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"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 8:31:00 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Button Gwinett was a Patriot and a Founding Father - but let's not lie about him. He was also a normal man with virtues and failings - no better or worse than any human being at any time.

I suspect a case could be made that excessive virtue produces idiocy.

K.

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 10:12:56 AM   
Edwynn


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Which could give us some clue as to why Gwinett wisely avoided excessive virtue.

Mozart was a half-decent billiards player and a lousy card player (both of which he partook of regularly).

Gotta keep the universe in balance and all that.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/11/2011 10:20:25 AM >

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 10:37:24 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of ...Gwinnett...

Sorry to be picky, but this is not historically accurate.

Button Gwinnett, the youngest man to sign the Declaration of Independence, wrote the original draft of Georgia's first State Constitution. He soon became Speaker of the Georgia Assembly, a position he held until the death of the President (Governor) of Georgia, Archibald Bulloch. Gwinnett was elevated to the vacated position by the Assembly’s Executive Council becoming the second Governor of the state of Georgia.

He did not have his properties looted by "Vandals or soldiers or both" or Tories, for that matter. He died in a duel fought against a political rival, Lachlan McIntosh, (who was also the husband of Gwinett's mistress), in May of 1777. After his death, his plantation was sold by his family to pay off Gwinett's many outstanding gambling debts.

Button Gwinett was a Patriot and a Founding Father - but let's not lie about him. He was also a normal man with virtues and failings - no better or worse than any human being at any time.




That's ok, history informs that the British ravaged the Georgia coast in 1777. While nothing reports that any of the Geo. signers including Gwinnett either did or didn't suffer from it, I suspect they did and the story is accurate.

Here's more: They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot of what happened in the revolutionary war. We didn't just fight the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Perhaps you can now see why our founding fathers had a hatred for standing armies, and allowed through the second amendment for everyone to be armed. Some of us take these liberties so much for granted. We shouldn't.

First, none of the signers of the Declaration of Independence died in captivity. All but two, or possibly three, died natural deaths and the majority of them lived to advanced age and had adequate possessions if not wealth. (not true) Of the deaths, Thomas Lynch, Jr. was lost at sea on a recreational voyage, Button Gwinett died from injuries in a duel with a political rival, and George Wythe was thought to have been poisoned by a man who wanted his estate, but the man was acquitted.

At least four of the signers were captured by the British, but apparently because they were soldiers, not signers of the Declaration. (conjecture)

Seven sources about the signers and none contained accounts of what could be called torture, at least not that was directed toward any of them for being founding fathers. (also conjecture) Two who were captured may have experienced some kind of torture because of the severity of their confinement, but that is conjecture. All were released and died natural deaths, although the health of some was affected by their imprisonment.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 11/11/2011 10:54:43 AM >

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 10:49:20 AM   
Politesub53


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Like much of the history found on the net, the OP is a mixture of fact and fiction.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

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RE: Veteran's day...recall our first 'veteran's.' - 11/11/2011 11:05:29 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of ...Gwinnett...

Sorry to be picky, but this is not historically accurate.

Button Gwinnett, the youngest man to sign the Declaration of Independence, wrote the original draft of Georgia's first State Constitution. He soon became Speaker of the Georgia Assembly, a position he held until the death of the President (Governor) of Georgia, Archibald Bulloch. Gwinnett was elevated to the vacated position by the Assembly’s Executive Council becoming the second Governor of the state of Georgia.

He did not have his properties looted by "Vandals or soldiers or both" or Tories, for that matter. He died in a duel fought against a political rival, Lachlan McIntosh, (who was also the husband of Gwinett's mistress), in May of 1777. After his death, his plantation was sold by his family to pay off Gwinett's many outstanding gambling debts.

Button Gwinett was a Patriot and a Founding Father - but let's not lie about him. He was also a normal man with virtues and failings - no better or worse than any human being at any time.





Well thankyou Debbie Downer. ("wah, wah, wahhhhh!")


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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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