This has got to be a joke....

This has got to be a joke.... (Full Version)

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joether -> This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 12:59:03 AM)
Straight from MSNBC (yeah, even I question this one), its Gov. Rick Perry being a lunatic. I hope this is just a gag or massive brain-fart; otherwise this guy should be locked up into a padded room with a jacket that has long arms and ties in the back. If Mr. Perry REALLY thinks that once he is president, that he can re-written the US Constitution to his liking, he's going to be in for a HUGE disappointment. Not only that, but believe that everyone will just 'sign on' with his ideas is simply laughable at best and scary at worst. Do we REALLY want this guy anywhere near the 'football'?

FirmhandKY -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 6:05:08 AM)
Well, since - according to the article - he's suppose to give an address on the subject, and lay it out, I'd suggest we wait and here he's own words on the subject. However, I think a strong relook at what American government has become over the last 70 to 80 years is certainly warranted. The devil is in the details. Firm

Kirata -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 6:20:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Straight from MSNBC (yeah, even I question this one), its Gov. Rick Perry being a lunatic. I hope this is just a gag or massive brain-fart; otherwise this guy should be locked up into a padded room with a jacket that has long arms and ties in the back. If Mr. Perry REALLY thinks that once he is president, that he can re-written the US Constitution to his liking, he's going to be in for a HUGE disappointment. Not only that, but believe that everyone will just 'sign on' with his ideas is simply laughable at best and scary at worst. Do we REALLY want this guy anywhere near the 'football'? People who require a diet of unending melodrama used to watch soap operas. Today, apparently, they've turned to satisfying their need by cranking out fanciful scenarios based on news stories. K.

tolovetolaugh -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 6:27:59 AM)
FR Don't particularly like Perry( he is a nut job for other reasons) But don't see that big of a problem with that article. Even found the joke at the end both true and funny. quote: In his criticism of the Beltway culture, Perry also made a joke at his own expense, referencing his long "brain freeze" at the CNBC debate during which he was unable to recall the name of the Department of Energy. "They think the answer is, every problem, let's just add a new agency of government. And I can remember most of em," he said to laughter and applause.

DarkSteven -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 6:34:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, I think a strong relook at what American government has become over the last 70 to 80 years is certainly warranted. The devil is in the details. Firm Um. IMO, the problem is that the executive branch and the federal government have been slowly eroding power from the states and the legislative branch. The judicial branch IMO is the one most still in balance with the founders' vision. I wouldn't mind some rebalancing, but I don't see anyone clamoring for Congress to have more power (because the Congresspeople like having cushy jobs in which they do little more than speak for or against the President's latest) or for the feds to cede power back to the states. Most of the tinkering proposed would be to weaken the independence of the judiciary.

FirmhandKY -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 8:59:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, I think a strong relook at what American government has become over the last 70 to 80 years is certainly warranted. The devil is in the details. Um. IMO, the problem is that the executive branch and the federal government have been slowly eroding power from the states and the legislative branch. The judicial branch IMO is the one most still in balance with the founders' vision. I wouldn't mind some rebalancing, but I don't see anyone clamoring for Congress to have more power (because the Congresspeople like having cushy jobs in which they do little more than speak for or against the President's latest) or for the feds to cede power back to the states. Most of the tinkering proposed would be to weaken the independence of the judiciary. The most basic problem is the overall power of the Federal Government, in all of it's four main aspects (yes, four, not three). The three aspects are legislative, executive, judicial, and bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is supposedly an extension of the executive, but the legislative and the judicial both have a lot of responsibility for the powers that the bureaucracy has gained over the decades. Breaking it down next, I agree that more power needs to be returned to the States. Not only has the Fed taken much of their power, the States are just as guilty of ceding that power. A lot of it was done through "greenmail", in which taxes are collected within each State, and then conditionally returned to them, as long as they adhere to Federal requirements. Another way is that the judicial continues to re-interpret the Constitutional powers of the legislative through the Commerce Clause and the "General Welfare clause" to bring more and more issues under the control of the Federal government. Finally, "unfunded mandates" is a way for the Feds to slap the States and local government around (through the bureaucracy) and sap their ability and desire to exercise their own powers and responsibilities. Within the Federal structure, I do believe that the legislative has continually ceded too much power to the executive. Google "Imperial Presidency" for details, but bottom line, it's often a way to pass the political buck. The judicial has taken on too much for itself. It has "made policy" and "found stuff" beyond the plain words of the Constitution. The ability of the Court to declare a law "unconstitutional" isn't actually enumerated in the document (it should have been), but I think Marbury v Madison allowed the finding of "umbra's and penumbras" to start, and has lead to it's overreach today. Any solutions to these problems won't be without a lot of animosity, because almost everyone's sacred cow will be touched. There are some things that could be done to move slightly back to our original roots, but absent some major, major disturbance in the body politic, I don't see it as ever getting us near the original founders vision. Firm

Owner59 -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 9:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Well, since - according to the article - he's suppose to give an address on the subject, and lay it out, I'd suggest we wait and here he's own words on the subject. However, I think a strong relook at what American government has become over the last 70 to 80 years is certainly warranted. tin The devil is in the details. Firm No prob,dude....longs I`m in charge of the change`n.[;)] I do agree with his thoughts on term limits for all judges.No lifetime appointments....make them live in the real world.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 9:15:33 AM)
Well you can forget about Perry. He won't be nominated because of his Immigration views, and the fact that he couldn't win a debate with his grandma. He does make some good points about eliminating federal agencies though. We didn't have a department of energy before Carter created it, and instead of making us energy independent they have done exactly the opposite. Why do we need a Department of Education. Doesn't each state have their own state dept of education? How about Dept. of Transportation and so on and so on. It's absurd and unconstitutional that the federal gov. has taken over control of these programs when the 10th amendment specifically forbids it. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." People are going to have to accept that we can't afford an all powerful federal government and social security, medicare, and medicaid. Personally I choose Social Security, medicare, and medicaid & gov. employees can fend for themselves just like the rest of us.

Zonie63 -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 10:06:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Straight from MSNBC (yeah, even I question this one), its Gov. Rick Perry being a lunatic. I hope this is just a gag or massive brain-fart; otherwise this guy should be locked up into a padded room with a jacket that has long arms and ties in the back. If Mr. Perry REALLY thinks that once he is president, that he can re-written the US Constitution to his liking, he's going to be in for a HUGE disappointment. Not only that, but believe that everyone will just 'sign on' with his ideas is simply laughable at best and scary at worst. Do we REALLY want this guy anywhere near the 'football'? In a way, it's not much different than the rhetoric of most politicians. They always say they're going to go in and clean up Washington and give us good government, but they never do.

joether -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 10:51:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls He does make some good points about eliminating federal agencies though. We didn't have a department of energy before Carter created it, and instead of making us energy independent they have done exactly the opposite. The guy doesn't make good points, he makes points that he believes will make conservatives vote for him. In other words, using your egos, thoughts, and political philosophy like a $3 whore. And you seem to eat up every crumb that hits the floor like a good, obedient and mindless serf. You want to blame the Department of Energy for not making us energy independent, why dont you blame the folks that have tried to 'keep the status quote' for years: The Oil Industry (and within the last 20 years, the GOP). How did the Bush family make its millions? quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Why do we need a Department of Education. Doesn't each state have their own state dept of education? How about Dept. of Transportation and so on and so on. It's absurd and unconstitutional that the federal gov. has taken over control of these programs when the 10th amendment specifically forbids it. Why do we need a Department of Education? So that GOP members looking to get elected have something to shove in your face as 'waste' and hope you dont hold them to the same level of accountibility and responsibility as both you and they blame Democrats for, year after year. Why dont you take the time, go to the library, and EDUCATE yourself on the question. The Department of Transportation is a whole different dog altogether. Given your lack of knowledge on the Department of Education (ironically?), I'm not surprised you dont understand why we have this department. Why should anyone answer your question when you clearly have not taken the time to educate yourself first? Likewise, nowhere in the US Constitution does it state either department could be created as the situation arose. How about the 'Department of Homeland Security'? Its an agency created by the GOP (you know, the guys supposively against 'big goverment'?), but its not listed in the US Constitution. The Founding Fathers (unlike you apparently) understood that as the nation grew and changed, things would have to grow and change with it. They had no way of knowing what would happen 230+ years let alone 23 years. Can you predict (with perfect accuracy) the events and situation this nation will be in once 230 years have pasted? No? Than it stands to reason that as technology and culture progresses, we will have to grapple with ethical and I dare say it, moral questions in the future. quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls People are going to have to accept that we can't afford an all powerful federal government and social security, medicare, and medicaid. Personally I choose Social Security, medicare, and medicaid & gov. employees can fend for themselves just like the rest of us. I hate to break it to you, but our goverment is not 'all powerful'. If that were the case, Mr. Obama would have gotten his health care law pass without any revisions (and it would be easily ten times better than the AAC of 2010). If the US Goverment was 'all powerful' there would be no illegal aliens crossing the border, nor crime, nor problems. Since all those things happen, its best to say the goverment, while impressively large, is not all powerful. When ever I hear someone argue 'smaller goverment', they usually have no intellectual leg to 'stand on' when asked exactly what that means in definative terms (most give a 'cut/paste' from some site because they lack the brain capacity to think for themselves). Is that to make the goverment less able to protect citizens from threats 'foreign, domestic and beyond planet Earth'? Or to help reign in the 'Conservative Nanny State' quicker (what, did you really think the Liberals had a monopoly on the concept?). You seem to hate paying for goverment employees, and not private sector employees. Do you even realize that budget cuts directly affect private sector employees in far greater numbers than goverment employees? In fact, those that have jobs indirectly through the goverment (you know, the one's 'down stream' of the first two groups), will not even know they lost their job due to budget cuts. Its rather amusing to have a conservative argue for budget cuts, only to lose their job six to nine months down the road, and never understanding his job was directly linked to those budget spendings. You are actually arguing to INCREASE unemployment...DURING....a RECESSION....while the unemployment rate is already.....HIGH. Does that sound intelligent or wise to you?

joether -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 11:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: joether Straight from MSNBC (yeah, even I question this one), its Gov. Rick Perry being a lunatic. I hope this is just a gag or massive brain-fart; otherwise this guy should be locked up into a padded room with a jacket that has long arms and ties in the back. If Mr. Perry REALLY thinks that once he is president, that he can re-written the US Constitution to his liking, he's going to be in for a HUGE disappointment. Not only that, but believe that everyone will just 'sign on' with his ideas is simply laughable at best and scary at worst. Do we REALLY want this guy anywhere near the 'football'? In a way, it's not much different than the rhetoric of most politicians. They always say they're going to go in and clean up Washington and give us good government, but they never do. There's trying to improve things, and than there's warping it into a new incarnation that works WORST. Likewise, how much will it cost us to make these improvements and WHERE will the money come from? Curious I dont see many conservatives questioning Mr. Perry on this. Given they so often bitch about 'waste' that they vote for the guys at a federal level that go about producing more than their opponents. Likewise, Mr. Perry seems to hold a silly notion that once 'Commander-in-Chief' he can do what ever the hell he feels like without notion to the law and rules. I see conservatives bashing Mr. Obama on an hourly basis, but yet are completely silent on the attitudes of the GOP candidates when asked numerous questions on how they'd deal with real world problems facing this nation of ours. Shouldn't we as Americans hold ANYONE seeking federal elected office (particular the Office of the President) to the same level as the one currently in that office?

thompsonx -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 2:36:39 PM)
quote: I do agree with his thoughts on term limits for all judges.No lifetime appointments....make them live in the real world. What do you think would happen to judicial independence if the supreme court were elected?

DomKen -> RE: This has got to be a joke.... (11/15/2011 3:55:44 PM)
FR Perry has made his speech and the details are now known. He wants to rewrite significant parts of the Constitution as well as inflicting a more disfunctional Congress on us. I'm sure some con somewhere thought this was a good idea.

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