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RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:35:58 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

Ah the tragedies of being a switch!

lol

o^^ / Elizabeth

I was not aware that the concepts of politeness and respect had boundaries that were exclusive to the positions of sub, slave, Dominant or even switch.



I was not aware that the concepts of politeness and respect had boundaries that were exclusive to the positions of sub, slave, Dominant or even switch. Do you mean that switches have the right to be less respectful or polite than subs/slaves? Do Dominants have that right?

Was wondering the same thing, erin, and is looking forward to the response.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:40:28 AM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		mistoferin, it was a joke....   as manners are obviously not important here.


o^^ / Elizabeth

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:46:54 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline
IMO:
Switch or not, does not matter, even if said in jest, still doesn't matter.  (And some think the 25 year old English student was rude? "Some" people have nothing on her!!!!)
But this certainly explains a lot in view of this thread.
If you can't clean up your own back door, you might as well go poking around someone else's.
Or even something along the lines of:
If you can't control your own submissive, or "get over the fundamentals of what we do" to your own submissive, then why not pick on some 25 year old English girl? 
Seems strange to expect something out of someone that you do not know or more importantly do not own, yet not expect it out of someone that you do.
Like the saying I stated earlier: Practice what you preach.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

Ah the tragedies of being a switch!

lol

o^^ / Elizabeth



_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 9:58:44 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

mistoferin, it was a joke....   as manners are obviously not important here.


o^^ / Elizabeth



With all due respect Elizabeth, I don't believe that humor is a justification for rudeness. We all know when we are being rude, or cheeky, SAMMMY, smart alecky...or whatever tag you personally afix to the behavior. This thread was started in part to discuss the concepts of politeness and respect....and the lack of some folks in the lifestyle who don't seem to practice those concepts. Your responses on this thread have shown you to be in the latter group.

I would at least prefer to see someone being rude who is at least honest about their behavior instead of being coy and trying to pawn it off under the guise of "humor".

If your relationship emphasizes the aforementioned concepts, are you also of the persuasion that believes that a submissive is a reflection of their Master???

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 10:06:49 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline 		Fast reply:

mistoferin always seems to say things better and with much more class than I seem to.


_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 11:18:34 AM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		I think humour is important, and I must say, this thread is rather funny.
Does my behaviour reflect on my Master?  Yes of course it does, when it's important, but I gave up long ago taking this serious.
What you see now, is the tongue in cheek coming through.

o^^ / Elizabeth

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 11:34:17 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

I think humour is important, and I must say, this thread is rather funny.
Does my behaviour reflect on my Master?  Yes of course it does, when it's important, but I gave up long ago taking this serious.
What you see now, is the tongue in cheek coming through.

o^^ / Elizabeth



Well, I am not certain if you are still using humor as your scapegoat or if you are blatantly trying to say unequivocally that you are now laughing in our collective faces.

I find it interesting that you apparently get to be selective in what and when is important in reference to your reflection upon your Master....but I will politely tell you that Elizabeth, your slip is showing (and you're speaking volumes).

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ElizabethDVall)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 11:49:19 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I joke around all the time, but when my humor is taken in the wrong way, I do apologize for it and make it very clear that no offense was intended.

I didn't learn that from Master though.. I learned it from Grandma.

I guess sometimes Grandmothers can teach us things that Masters cannot.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 11:58:31 AM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		Grandma sounds nice, but aren't they all?  I know mine was :-D

o^^ / Elizabeth

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:00:34 PM   
ElizabethDVall


Posts: 53
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		Only my slip?  hell... im slackin,  I'm usually naked by now.

I wouldnt say "collective" faces tho.  There are some decent folk here.

o^^ / Elizabeth

< Message edited by ElizabethDVall -- 5/28/2006 12:27:06 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:06:33 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
After having sat and read this entire thread on a Sunday afternoon....

I don't really think either party really did anything "wrong". They are just coming from 2 totally different places. It's no different than a native american raised on the reservation walking into town and saying "You won't catch any deer with all these loud cars!"

I see a familiar theme. It seems the OP comes from an era/time/place/group/learning of high protocol and "community" standards. All submissives default a general level of submission to all Dominants. That works very well in the context of a particular group of individuals who prescribe to the same belief system, and who "screen" those coming into their specific exclusive group. I have in the past belonged to similar groups and found them very fulfilling on a personal level, regardless of my role.

The problem here is that the OP is trying to apply those standards outside of that exclusivity. Not an uncommon mistake for someone to make when coming from a place of exclusivity. I have, in the past, done the same thing. Lesson learned. Adjustments made to my approach. And I am a better person for having been able to adapt to differing situations.

I love high protocol. I love the deferment of power from group S to group D, instead of just between 2 people. I love the tradition of using honorifics. However, I am not blind to the fact that these types of behaviors have their time and place. In my home, with my group of friends who prescribe similarly. At my high protocol parties. At my friends' private meetings. Etc...

The internet. Public message boards. Personal ads. With strangers we have not met. Groups of diverse beliefs and practices. These are neither the time, nor place. Those who are accustomed to high protocol and universal deferment, have to come to understand that, and respect that.

In my own home, with my own social circle, with my own group, I can do things my way.

I think it shows a lot of character to be able to say "Even though these are my preferences, even though this is what I know, even though at some level it kind of bugs me and I wish all folks did it my way, I understand and accept that I'm not playing on *my* field. I'm now on the community playground and I need to respect the diversity in front of me, even though I don't like some of it."

And just for the record, I don't think any of that relates to BDSM becoming popular or drawing the "wrong" people. That's just another misconception we can sometimes get when we poke our head outside of our own box and realize THE world doesn't work the way OUR world works.

Culture shock can be disconcerting. Try to be flexible enough to adapt to it. It certainly won't adapt to you.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:14:22 PM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		An example of  what I have said earlier : two countries devised by an uncommon sense of humour (poetic licence)

elizabeth comment would have been taken exactly as she had intended it on a UK forum (please do not pick up on the obvious double meaning) It is not clever to give negative connotations to every statement. She has been known to "brat" (<- a humerus comment) and at times she is inclined to go to war on my behalf, much to my displeasure,(who said a D/s relationship was easy?) but her attitude to the group is coloured by the reception that we as strangers to you, have received. I think this also reflects on your attitude to good manners.

Your statement that :- This thread was started in part to discuss the concepts of politeness and respect....and the lack of some folks in the lifestyle who don't seem to practice those concepts. Is right on the mark but, if this is an important concept to the group, then please explain why support for this concept was not exactly forthcoming. You seem to harp on actualities and not concepts, which tends to limit the free flow of debate.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:26:09 PM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Dam foreigners : She's rude and immature, he's pompous and arrogant. (<- a joke !!!!)

Isn't communication between nations interesting lol.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:29:23 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

Your statement that :- This thread was started in part to discuss the concepts of politeness and respect....and the lack of some folks in the lifestyle who don't seem to practice those concepts. Is right on the mark but, if this is an important concept to the group, then please explain why support for this concept was not exactly forthcoming. You seem to harp on actualities and not concepts, which tends to limit the free flow of debate.



From my perspective, Elizabeth did not behave with the kind of behavior you stated you wanted from the person you contacted. In fact, IMO, she is behaving in exactly the way you said you did NOT like. As your submissive, shouldn't she be acting in a way that supports what you believe rather than in the way that you are complaining about in submissives you do not own? I'm afraid I do not understand.

Personally, I like high protocol, but I practice it within the framework of a group that I am committed to, not on public forums like this. I try to be polite to everyone, mostly as a part of just being a polite person.

From what I have read here, I would say that Elizabeth is not particularly polite to those who post here. That's sad. It reflects poorly, IMO, on her owner.

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:30:57 PM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Thank you

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 12:38:03 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Is right on the mark but, if this is an important concept to the group, then please explain why support for this concept was not exactly forthcoming. You seem to harp on actualities and not concepts, which tends to limit the free flow of debate.


I'll give this a shot. There is a term in the USA which we often use in reply to those whom preach a certain concept but by their own actions/words set about to show that what they 'talk' is not what they 'walk'.

The term is "That's the pot calling the kettle black."

What that means is, one can preach good manners until they are blue, but if, in so doing, they are exhibiting the exact qualities which they preach against, one is hard pressed to listen with an open ear to their words.

I hope that explains things to you.. and I'm sorry to hear you have a submissive who brings you so much displeasure when she goes to war for you. Hopefully, you can get her on the right track so that she'll want to please you rather than displease you. You see, in the BDSM world in which I live, how strangers live their lives is not my concern.. so what someone writes on their profile is not my business.. but a submissive bringing displeasure to her Master is pretty universally accepted as showing either a lack of submission/respect or poor leadership skills on the part of the Master.

I'm curious if that is something that is different because of the pond between the two nations as well?

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 1:41:59 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline 		Popular? No, but as it was already said, it is becoming more and more accepted. While I agree there are many naive and clueless youth who do not know what they are getting into, I wouldn't avoid them or 'ban' them from bdsm. For the youth interested under 18, better they get accurate and good information, as well making clear of the dangers to them.

I am currently 22 and I first discovered bdsm quite by accident when I was 16 looking for chat room about something I was questioning and going through, which I did find but also happened to be bdsm. After a few days, been confronted about my age and said I shouldn't be hear, but because of my honesty, allowed me to come to the chat still and  virtually collared me for my own protection while keeping me away from the more serious stuff, yet her and others made sure I got proper information about bdsm, along with the dangers which I pretty much figured alot of it on my own. My mother didn't know because this started after she moved to another city which I refuse to with, wanting to stay in a city where I was developing as support base for the others things I was going through.

I only really started trying to explore bdsm at 19 after dealing with the other issues and became not so busy. Way I done it probably wasn't wise, but after revisiting that chatroom, got annoyed and tired of it because mainly online play and wasn't real, so googled up anything bdsm related locally, joined some email list when I turn got to talk with some Doms and Dommes along with other subs where I furthered learned from, and two weeks later attended my first fet night. I was ready to see things I do not like and may get offend, yet never happened, brushing by mind as being natural. During the year  after that, got further involved in the community and learned as much as I could,  along with talks with a Domme I was interested in and in turn her interested in me, but nothing happened because of our life situations, but learnt a lot from her as well. Eventually did approach this one Domme after knowing her as a good friend for 5-6 months and that relationship was interesting considering it was my first relationship with another person in general, so a for a first one, was a steep learning curve and learned quite alot from it by doing all the first mistakes along with others, the biggest one being lack of communication. After that ended six months ended, I learned quite alot from that experience, along about myself and what I really seek. Unfortunatly as well, also learned that the bdsm community can just be as bad as a high school cliques and drama.

Now been a year and the half since that relationship, spent most of it focusing on further establishing myself financially and socially before even considering another relationship, like now yet in no rush. Since the last, I develop a different perspective of people and how they can be like where some of the Dommes I may have been interested before I do not now that I see who they really are. During that period since, also got annoyed with some Dommes and their agist views. Just because I am young doesn't automaticly inexperience, naive, stupid and dependent. Also hate it being told to go find a Domme my own age and experience level, especially when there is none or the ones that exist are less experience and more naive than me in regards to bdsm. I prefer having a Domme with more experience than I have so I can learn from them, in turn easier to trust. Of course, living in Ottawa, being a lesbian seeking a bi or lesbian Domme that I would like and in turn able to trust not going to happen anytime soon.

I think diverged from the point I am trying to make, so will go straight to it. Yes, I agree with darq of the dangers of adults taking advantage of younglings, but in some ways older and more experience Dommes can be good for the younglings to learn and gain some experience. With the first Domme I was interested in, discussed with her further about possibly at least temporally be her sub to gain further knowledge and experience, and then after that move on from there. Mentoring, thats the word I am looking for, which can help alot of youth getting into bdsm.

-mellian


(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 1:45:31 PM   
mellian


Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
What that means is, one can preach good manners until they are blue, but if, in so doing, they are exhibiting the exact qualities which they preach against, one is hard pressed to listen with an open ear to their words.

I hope that explains things to you.. and I'm sorry to hear you have a submissive who brings you so much displeasure when she goes to war for you. Hopefully, you can get her on the right track so that she'll want to please you rather than displease you. You see, in the BDSM world in which I live, how strangers live their lives is not my concern.. so what someone writes on their profile is not my business.. but a submissive bringing displeasure to her Master is pretty universally accepted as showing either a lack of submission/respect or poor leadership skills on the part of the Master.


That mostly described the relationship I had with my last Domme, along with the seriously lack of communication despite her preaching how important it is.

-mellian

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 2:29:08 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei
You seem to harp on actualities and not concepts, which tends to limit the free flow of debate.


Hardly harping.   How a person behaves is, to me, a lot more important than how he or she says he or she behaves.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Is BDSM to popular - 5/28/2006 2:35:35 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

An example of  what I have said earlier : two countries devised by an uncommon sense of humour (poetic licence)

elizabeth comment would have been taken exactly as she had intended it on a UK forum (please do not pick up on the obvious double meaning) It is not clever to give negative connotations to every statement. She has been known to "brat" (<- a humerus comment) and at times she is inclined to go to war on my behalf, much to my displeasure,(who said a D/s relationship was easy?) but her attitude to the group is coloured by the reception that we as strangers to you, have received. I think this also reflects on your attitude to good manners.

Your statement that :- This thread was started in part to discuss the concepts of politeness and respect....and the lack of some folks in the lifestyle who don't seem to practice those concepts. Is right on the mark but, if this is an important concept to the group, then please explain why support for this concept was not exactly forthcoming. You seem to harp on actualities and not concepts, which tends to limit the free flow of debate.



You are merely attempting to draw the attention away from your err by disguising it as debate and your toss of "balls" with which the board was to play.  Blaming the thread as a form of miscommunication between the countries across the pond is feeble, at best. 

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Bugei)
Profile   Post #: 140
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