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Zonie63 -> RE: Agnosticism (11/29/2011 7:35:32 AM)
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ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
Zonie: "grandiose"? Fuck you.
Well, there's no call for that kind of language. We're just having a discussion.
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- I have shown how you cannot claim with absolute certainty that 2+2=4 and why. A good resume was already in the posting you quoted, but you decided to argue against the conclusions without showing any step or premise being false or invalid.
Well, I think you can claim with more certainty regarding 2+2=4 than being able to prove a negative. That's the main difference that you don't seem able to grasp.
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I can show you scenarios where Santa Claus exists and you could not disprove it without Occam's Razor. You can imagine them yourself, if for a change you decided that you want to think a bit.
Well, sure, I could do the same thing. And I am thinking about this. I can tell the difference between statements which can be proven versus those which can not be proven. Apparently, you're unable to tell the difference, and that's why we disagree on this.
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"Nobody has ever seen an elf"? Fuck you. Nobody has ever seen God. Since when was that a prove of inexistence? Or is it only when you like it?
Some people have claimed to communicate with God, so that leaves us with a measure of doubt.
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I have shown you how you cannot claim with absolute certainty that you have a nose - and you accepted it, but you change your claims like a leave on the Autum wind.quote:
ORIGINAL: Zonie63
There is not enough information to determine whether or not I actually have a nose. You've precluded the possibility of me being able to trust my own eyes when I look in the mirror and see that I have a nose. Post #203 in the game. This was the moment in which you were more near the truth. Sad, that you decided to withdraw.
The problem there is that you seemed to take issue with my qualification that I assume that I have a nose for day-to-day activities. We seemed to reach an accord at that point, but then you had to start asking "But why day-to-day activities" or something to that effect. This told me that merely assuming my practical reality is not enough for you, implying that there had to be absolute certainty. This is where you lost me. You couldn't just accept a reasonable doubt about reality and end it. You kept insisting on a final answer to encompass all situations, and this is where I disagree with your entire position.
Essentially, you're proving here that positive atheism is not unlike a religion. You have to believe that there is no God, and anyone who doesn't share that belief must be a heretic in your eyes - somebody to scorn and say "Fuck you" to. That's what religious zealots do. Since I'm not a religious zealot, I don't get all upset and angry over these things.
If you can't have a conversation about deeper subjects without becoming unglued, then perhaps you shouldn't even try.
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- I have shown you the difference between a simple claim and a claim of absolute certainty. But you decide to ignore it.
I don't recall ignoring that, and in fact, that's the main bone of contention we have right now.
If you're saying that you're as certain about a negative ("there is no god") as you are about a provable claim ("2+2=4"), then to you, there doesn't seem to be any difference at all.
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And I can prove that God does not exist, in three different ways. I don't need technology for that, only reason, the definitions and a clear mind. Of course, as all my assertions, it is with no claim of absolute certainty. But beyond reasonable doubt. However you are so certain that I can, t that you have not even asked me about them, you simply suppose that demostration you don't know are wrong and insult me on that basis.Fuck you. If you do not have the guts to return to the game, this conversation is over.
Bye. You may have the last word if you are so fond of it as Kirata.
When did I ever insult you?
And no, you can't prove that God doesn't exist, unless you can demonstrate the ability to visit and explore every star system in the galaxy (and even then, that wouldn't be enough). We can visit the North Pole and explore our own planet sufficiently to reasonably confirm the absence of any elves or Santa Claus, but when we're talking about "god" and its myriad interpretations, then there's no way that any reasonable person can express certainty.
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