Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (Full Version)

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erieangel -> Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 7:23:38 PM)

"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 14, 16 years of age, fine. You're totally poor. You're in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model," he said. "Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they'd begin the process of rising."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68729.html#ixzz1eOupMzM2


This is the frontrunner of the Republican party, a man who advocates putting 8-9 year olds to work for a pay check.  And I guess Newt never even considered what all those janitors will do for a living--but its ok, their kids can then support the family.



DarkSteven -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 7:57:43 PM)

"The former House Speaker acknowledged that it was an unconventional pitch, saying, "You're going to see from me extraordinarily radical proposals to fundamentally change the culture of poverty in America and give people a chance to rise very rapidly."

Whenever ol' Newt rose rapidly, he'd get a divorce and a new wife.

Seriously, the guy earns $300K in bribes from Fannie Mae, hawks his books and charges pro speaking fees.  When's he ever held the kind of job that the rest of us have?



tazzygirl -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 8:14:48 PM)

I thought it was over a million, DS



TheHeretic -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 8:55:25 PM)

Newt actually has an excellent point here, though his example was poorly chosen (I'm getting this image of 5th graders being flung through the air by the floor buffer).

As our poverty maintenance system operates now, if a motivated kid in a family on welfare wants to go out and get some work, anything he earns is legally counted as household income, and deducted from the benefits. Instead of encouraging these youth to do the things it takes to break the cycle of poverty, we actively disincentivize work.

A work ethic isn't something they teach you about in a class, and then it magically ripens the first day of that first grown-up job. You build it by shoveling snow off the old ladies driveways, while your friends are building a snowman, delivering newspapers in the rain, and yes, just maybe by spending recess wiping down the tables in the cafeteria, and putting some money in your own pocket by doing so.




erieangel -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:22:19 PM)

I can think of far better ways to provide incentives to welfare recipients to go to work-the problem is there are about 10-20 people applying every entry level job out there.  There are companies that have developed policies to hire only people who wish to change jobs but will not give the same job to even a more experienced/trained person who is currently unemployed.

Kids don't deliver news papers any more.  And if the kids are cleaning the schools, what becomes of all the janitors who get laid off?



InvisibleBlack -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:23:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Seriously, the guy earns $300K in bribes from Fannie Mae, hawks his books and charges pro speaking fees.  When's he ever held the kind of job that the rest of us have?


Newt Gingrich has some fundamental flaws which I regard as making him pretty much a non-starter for President, but as I recall, his mother married an army lieutenant who adopted Newt, and he was basically an army brat for his early life. He didn't come from big money and I expect he had the usual run of low-paying early jobs most people do. I think he worked as an assistant professor in the 70s until he won election to the House.

Some of those flaws have led him to be pretty fast and loose about how he earns his money (and rather less than subtle about it, too - other politicians manage to become rich while in office but they spend more effort playing down or sweeping under the rug the source of their ill-gotten gains) but unlike, say, George W. Bush or Al Gore, Jr. - Newt didn't start with the big bucks.

[Edited. Typos.]



BanthaSamantha -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:25:39 PM)

Expanding the workforce by freeing up the restrictions on child labor is going to do absolutely nothing to increase the number of jobs out there. In fact, it'll likely make the employment situation worse as more people will be competing for the same jobs.

Secondly, I fail to see replacing a full time janitorial employee with a teenage employee will do anyone any good, unless you consider being able to give the teenager less pay is a good thing. In all honesty, this whole plan sounds like an elaborate scheme to find a new exploitable workforce.



SternSkipper -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:37:29 PM)

quote:


Newt Gingrich has some fundamental flaws which I regard as making him pretty much a non-starter for President, but as I recall, his mother married an army lieutenant who adopted Newt, and he was basically an army brat for his early life. He didn't come from big money and I expect he had the usual run of low-paying early jobs most people do. I think he worked as an assistant professor in the 70s until he won election to the House.

Some of those flaws have led him to be pretty fast and loose about how he earns his money (and rather less than subtle about it, too - other politicians manage to become rich while in office but they spend more effort playing down or sweeping under the rug the source of their ill-gotten gains) but unlike, say, George W. Bush or Al Gore, Jr. - Newt didn't start with the big bucks.


That was awesome... Now can I hear the biography of somebody cool? Like maybe Soupy Sales, or Rodney Dangerfield[:D]
   You actually delivered a good short political biography too bad it had to be about Newt.




TheHeretic -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:39:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I can think of far better ways to provide incentives to welfare recipients to go to work



Please tell me what better way you know to incentivize work, than to allow people to put the money they make in their pockets. They should just naturally want to do it, as their role in the communal herd, maybe?



SternSkipper -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:45:24 PM)

quote:

Expanding the workforce by freeing up the restrictions on child labor is going to do absolutely nothing to increase the number of jobs out there. In fact, it'll likely make the employment situation worse as more people will be competing for the same jobs.


But it was "the old days" his old man probably talked to him about growing up. Perhaps he's more nostalgic than interested in remedying the economy.
IMFFHO - This cavalcade of Laissez-faire economics to avoid paying fair wages and helping pay for Govt has worn out it's welcome with a lot of us. Yeah, yeah "save the biggest taxpayers money and they'll make sure you get some".





BanthaSamantha -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 9:53:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I can think of far better ways to provide incentives to welfare recipients to go to work


Most welfare recipients already work. Combine the powerful social stigma of being on welfare with the fact that average benefits aren't enough to support a family, and you have the reason why most welfare recipients work.



InvisibleBlack -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 10:08:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Please tell me what better way you know to incentivize work, than to allow people to put the money they make in their pockets. They should just naturally want to do it, as their role in the communal herd, maybe?


I don't necessarily have an issue with coming up with methods to provide part-time gainful employment to children of say high-school or middle-school age, especially if supervised in the school environment. I also agree with you that penalizing the parents' welfare or support income for any earnings made by their children is senseless.

However, firing the school janitorial staff and employing the children of welfare recipients to do the janitorial work is either hyperbole or not very well thought out. Something better can be arranged, likely without too much effort - and it doesn't need to and shouldn't come down as a mandate from the Federal government.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper
That was awesome... Now can I hear the biography of somebody cool? Like maybe Soupy Sales, or Rodney Dangerfield[:D]


All I know about Soupy Sales was that he served on a ship in the Pacific in WW II and got suspended once for asking kids to sneak into their parents' wallets while they were sleeping and mail the money to him at the TV station. Hmmm ... he'd've fit right in with the typical run of candidates! [;)]





TallClevMan -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 10:12:30 PM)

I absolutely agree with you BanthaSamantha. A tactic of the wealthy during difficult times is to divide the poor and pit them against each other.Union vs. non-union, native vs. immigrant, black vs. white, etc. How many janitors, policemen, teachers, firefighters do you see driving $100,000 cars and living in McMansions? Exploiting children to save a few bucks is an abhorrent concept. And before all the right-wing nutjobs start calling me a socialist (which I'm sure none of them even know what the term actually means), I have an MBA and own my own business.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 10:49:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha



Combine the powerful social stigma of being on welfare


There is no longer a stigma to being on welfare, just as there is no stigma for walking out on your obligations by declaring bankruptcy or walking out on your mortgage.

I also highly doubt that most people on welfare work. There was no time up to 2003 where more than 45% worked, and I doubt thats gone up given the economy.



BanthaSamantha -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 11:00:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There is no longer a stigma to being on welfare, just as there is no stigma for walking out on your obligations by declaring bankruptcy or walking out on your mortgage.

I also highly doubt that most people on welfare work. There was no time up to 2003 where more than 45% worked, and I doubt thats gone up given the economy.


You can't simply deny a phenomena that many legitimate social scientists have explored and studied. This is an actual bona fide field in which real scientists have published rigorous, peer reviewed studies; it isn't as if it is some off-the-cuff hypothesis.

Regarding the statistics, I added those whom aren't working but are participating in a bona fide job training program to the percentage; I figured that it kept with the spirit of the point. Combined, you get a majority much of the time.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 11:06:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There is no longer a stigma to being on welfare, just as there is no stigma for walking out on your obligations by declaring bankruptcy or walking out on your mortgage.

I also highly doubt that most people on welfare work. There was no time up to 2003 where more than 45% worked, and I doubt thats gone up given the economy.


You can't simply deny a phenomena that many legitimate social scientists have explored and studied. This is an actual bona fide field in which real scientists have published rigorous, peer reviewed studies; it isn't as if it is some off-the-cuff hypothesis.

Regarding the statistics, I added those whom aren't working but are participating in a bona fide job training program to the percentage; I figured that it kept with the spirit of the point. Combined, you get a majority much of the time.


1. When were those studies done? Things have changed tremendously in just the last 3 years.
2. Ie you lied.



BanthaSamantha -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/21/2011 11:34:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


1. When were those studies done? Things have changed tremendously in just the last 3 years.
2. Ie you lied.


1. Yeah, the economy has changed a lot in three years. The moral fabric of society and the underpinnings of our social mores? Not so much. But as I said before, this is something that has been studied extensively; you're free to disagree with manstream scientific thought, but you're not free to pretend it doesn't exist. If you are curious about the subject, I would highly encourage you to go to your local library (preferably a university library, as not all local libraries pay for scholarly databases) and do a scholarly search on Proquest or JSTOR.

2. Only if you use a stiflingly narrow interpretation of work and a comically broad definition of lie. People don't enter work training programs to kill time; they do it to improve their lot and the lot of their families. They're working to make themselves more marketable in a tough job market, to enhance their outlook. I.E. they work.



Aylee -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/22/2011 12:40:05 AM)

Where are these kids supposed to be getting their pocket money from?


It is not as though they are allowed to have a lemonade stand anymore.



Sanity -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/22/2011 5:05:53 AM)


Newt is crazy! We dont need to become a harder working country, we need to become a lazier country.

There are still a few places that havent passed us yet...



DomKen -> RE: Fire the janitors, hire kids to clean schools (11/22/2011 6:33:05 AM)

FR

At least Newt isn't calling for putting poor kids in orphanages like the last time he thought he was in charge.



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