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Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 6:47:43 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		and if it falls, so will the rest of the world. Just a couple of links. Plenty more for those who want to go looking.

http://news.yahoo.com/fitch-cuts-portugal-rating-junk-status-113718420.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/21/us-eurozone-idUSTRE7AK0CZ20111121

Honestly, I don't know who or what to blame. I just know there's plenty to go around, and that includes voters who keep putting the same dip shits back into office. Oh yeah, I hear ya. We have no real options when it comes to pulling the lever at the voting machine.

You're right. We don't.

Some notable quotes:

"Spain's Socialists became the fifth government in the 17-nation currency area to be toppled by the sovereign debt crisis this year. Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Greece went before"

"The risk premiums on Spanish, Italian, French and Belgian government bonds rose as investors fled to safe-haven German Bunds, while European shares .FTEU3 fell more than 3 percent after Moody's warned that France's credit rating faced new dangers."

"One simply cannot build a growth strategy on accumulating more debt, when the capacity to service the current debt is questioned by the markets," Rehn told a Brussels seminar. "One cannot force foreign creditors to lend more money, if they don't have the confidence to do it."

"Ratings agency Moody's said a recent rise in interest rates on French government debt and weaker economic growth prospects could be negative for France's credit rating."

"Nov. 23 Germany’s stature as an island of stability amid the financial chaos of the euro zone was challenged after an auction of government bonds met slack demand, suggesting that investors are beginning to question whether there are any havens left in Europe. Analysts cautioned against reading too much into a single bond issue. But the dismal sale results contributed to the atmosphere of fear that prevails in Europe: that the crisis is getting ahead of the political will to solve it."


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 7:09:43 AM   
Sanity


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Its because theyve been far too conservative...

Blame it on FOX News and the Christians


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 7:12:20 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3836115

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 9:16:43 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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Status: offline 		If it sends Corzine to jail it might be worth it!

Seriously though, people who think that a downgrade in US debt means shit have no clue. When everyone else is rated B, A- is still the safest place to be....as proven by the rally in Treasuries after the S&P silliness.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/24/2011 9:17:20 AM >

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 9:19:51 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Having a single currency for a bunch of very different countries was a mistake from the git-go.
Who's "bright idea" was that anyway?
England was smart enough to stay away from that.


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:14:00 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
The European Union stands little chance

EU demands right to dictate national budgets

I clearly recall how many leftists bragged up the supposed "worlds new powerhouse" as it was forming, looks like all the bragging was premature


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:17:29 AM   
CoreFocus


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/23/2011
Status: offline 		lol

how fast people find a new target to forget their own shit

did you wonder why we will drag the world with us? Because they are as shit.

Crises have always existed...they will go away also ;)

next

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:20:23 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

and if it falls, so will the rest of the world. Just a couple of links. Plenty more for those who want to go looking.

http://news.yahoo.com/fitch-cuts-portugal-rating-junk-status-113718420.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/21/us-eurozone-idUSTRE7AK0CZ20111121

Honestly, I don't know who or what to blame. I just know there's plenty to go around, and that includes voters who keep putting the same dip shits back into office. Oh yeah, I hear ya. We have no real options when it comes to pulling the lever at the voting machine.

You're right. We don't.

Some notable quotes:

"Spain's Socialists became the fifth government in the 17-nation currency area to be toppled by the sovereign debt crisis this year. Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Greece went before"

"The risk premiums on Spanish, Italian, French and Belgian government bonds rose as investors fled to safe-haven German Bunds, while European shares .FTEU3 fell more than 3 percent after Moody's warned that France's credit rating faced new dangers."

"One simply cannot build a growth strategy on accumulating more debt, when the capacity to service the current debt is questioned by the markets," Rehn told a Brussels seminar. "One cannot force foreign creditors to lend more money, if they don't have the confidence to do it."

"Ratings agency Moody's said a recent rise in interest rates on French government debt and weaker economic growth prospects could be negative for France's credit rating."

"Nov. 23 Germany’s stature as an island of stability amid the financial chaos of the euro zone was challenged after an auction of government bonds met slack demand, suggesting that investors are beginning to question whether there are any havens left in Europe. Analysts cautioned against reading too much into a single bond issue. But the dismal sale results contributed to the atmosphere of fear that prevails in Europe: that the crisis is getting ahead of the political will to solve it."



And the U.S. is doing so such much better?

Do you have blinders on?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/24/2011 11:22:28 AM >

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:20:24 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
How many sock puppets are enough


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:21:52 AM   
CoreFocus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


How many sock puppets are enough




1 nice one is enough
I am not greedy.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:22:05 AM   
Sanity


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Do you honestly believe that he wrote or even suggested anything of the sort?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
And the U.S. is doing such much better?

Do you have blinders on?



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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:30:59 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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The Eurocrisis is far more than a mere diversion or light hearted topic of discussion, when this thing blows the devastation is going to be colossal and very far reaching.


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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 11:59:40 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Doom and gloom,hopelessness and despair,fear and cowardice...... are all you have.....


Well,off to diner at my GF`s family`s house.


Happy Thanx everyone.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 12:03:44 PM   
CoreFocus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The Eurocrisis is far more than a mere diversion or light hearted topic of discussion, when this thing blows the devastation is going to be colossal and very far reaching.




True...and in time China will follow..and we have the same discussion..wondering why humanity didn't learn.
It seems to be part of our life cycle.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 12:15:30 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Doom and gloom,hopelessness and despair,fear and cowardice...... are all you have.....


Well,off to diner at my GF`s family`s house.


Happy Thanx everyone.


Have a nice trip to the Ramapo's

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 12:18:38 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Do you honestly believe that he wrote or even suggested anything of the sort?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
And the U.S. is doing such much better?

Do you have blinders on?




Yes.  It was implied.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 12:21:05 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Do you honestly believe that he wrote or even suggested anything of the sort?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
And the U.S. is doing such much better?

Do you have blinders on?




Yes.  It was implied.



1. It wasnt implied.
2. The US is doing much better....but 5 more years of Obama will change that, gaia forbid.

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Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 3:59:46 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The European Union stands little chance

EU demands right to dictate national budgets

I clearly recall how many leftists bragged up the supposed "worlds new powerhouse" as it was forming, looks like all the bragging was premature



Clearly you dont recall too much at all. The EU wasnt just set up by the left, but also by the right. It was Ted Heath who took Britain into the EU and you dont get much more right wing than that.

Nobody I have spoken too, and indeed few who speak in the media, think that the collapse of the EU is a good thing. Many of us dont like the way it is going, with merkel and sarkozy pushing for greater ties ( while at the same time holding differing views on the ECB. France takes the same view as the UK and the USA that the ECB should be the bank that bails out the Euro, Merkel thinks it should be the IMF.

Last week our Prime Minister told Merkel Britain wont agree to that idea, or to any changes to the EU treaty. Infact ten of the twenty seven EU countries are not in the Eurozone, so Merkel will struggle to get her own way.

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 4:44:54 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The European Union stands little chance

EU demands right to dictate national budgets

I clearly recall how many leftists bragged up the supposed "worlds new powerhouse" as it was forming, looks like all the bragging was premature

Clearly you dont recall too much at all. The EU wasnt just set up by the left, but also by the right. It was Ted Heath who took Britain into the EU and you dont get much more right wing than that.

Nobody I have spoken too, and indeed few who speak in the media, think that the collapse of the EU is a good thing. Many of us dont like the way it is going, with merkel and sarkozy pushing for greater ties ( while at the same time holding differing views on the ECB. France takes the same view as the UK and the USA that the ECB should be the bank that bails out the Euro, Merkel thinks it should be the IMF.

Last week our Prime Minister told Merkel Britain wont agree to that idea, or to any changes to the EU treaty. Infact ten of the twenty seven EU countries are not in the Eurozone, so Merkel will struggle to get her own way.

...of course the Eurozone was formed by the right...the bankers and capitalists. And of course Merkel wants the IMF to handle this, it being a capitalist bailout fund supported by virtually all western taxpayers. Spread the debt around a bit. The IMF as former tres. sec. O'Neil was honest about and was fired (Bush) for it, saying "why should taxpayers pay for an international lender and bailout fund for reckless international private lending and financial gambling "particularly with sovereign debt. ?

Can't tap that yet as the the US financial socialists (wall street) need that for when their derivatives blow up as a small reserve. So the European, socialist financial gamblers should rely upon their lender of last resort, the ECB...its central bank.

Kinkroids, this IS the capitalist monetary system. There was no where else for [it] to go. Western monetary capitalism is made up of two very large groups...lenders and borrowers. A small minority of the population in the western hemisphere are debt free and fewer and fewer will be.

What we are witnessing is just the beginning. 1960, debt service...6% of GDP. 2011...30% of GDP. This is not an accident or a drill. This is the future.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 11/24/2011 4:54:25 PM >

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RE: Europe is crumbling - 11/24/2011 4:49:31 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I didnt write anything like "the EU was only set up by the left".

Try to focus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Clearly you dont recall too much at all. The EU wasnt just set up by the left, but also by the right.


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