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Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 2:33:42 PM   
PolyDommesgirl


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline 		There was a time that Canadian's were very proud to welcome immigrants to Canada.

Tragically, the events that occurred on September 11, 2001 and the allegations that they were conducted by extremists from a particular religion have made many Canadians substantially less receptive to welcoming new immigrants. I think my views have been influenced by these events as well.

Around the world, more countries are becoming less and less tolerant of immigrants.

Do you believe the Multi-cultural Model that exists in Canada, is likely to become more like the Melting Pot Model as seen in the USA.

Or do you believe that a Multi-cultural Model can accommodate, pockets of Melting Pots.

As it stands now in Canada, Quebec is an example of a Canadian melting pot, with cultural protections having been written into their provincial laws, conversely Ontario is very supportive to New Immigrants.

All other provinces lie in the shades of grey between the two.

I would really like to know your views



< Message edited by PolyDommesgirl -- 11/26/2011 2:40:47 PM >
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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 2:48:37 PM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
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Status: offline 		Can't comment on that but over here in the UK some of the biggest advocates of multiculturism are calling it a failed experiment. Which is something a hell of a lot of us predicted anyway. Personally I go with my country right or wrong. Don't like it there's the exit door.

If anyone wants to call me racist I will refute the argument but I will readily admit to being culturalist.
I fail to see the benefit to society in general in having schools teaching 17 languages.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 4:39:38 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Can't comment on that but over here in the UK some of the biggest advocates of multiculturism are calling it a failed experiment. Which is something a hell of a lot of us predicted anyway. Personally I go with my country right or wrong. Don't like it there's the exit door.

If anyone wants to call me racist I will refute the argument but I will readily admit to being culturalist.
I fail to see the benefit to society in general in having schools teaching 17 languages.




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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 5:14:35 PM   
PolyDommesgirl


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Status: offline 		Please Ms LafayetteLady, elaborate on what you thought was worthy of applause, furthermore why you felt is was worthy of applause?



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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 5:31:16 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Can't comment on that but over here in the UK some of the biggest advocates of multiculturism are calling it a failed experiment. Which is something a hell of a lot of us predicted anyway. Personally I go with my country right or wrong. Don't like it there's the exit door.

If anyone wants to call me racist I will refute the argument but I will readily admit to being culturalist.
I fail to see the benefit to society in general in having schools teaching 17 languages.



But here in the UK multiculturism of the type that was pushed onto us, isnt the same as accepting immigrants warmly. The UK has long since done welcomed immigration, but failed government welfare policies have caused the problems. So called "positive discrimination" is still discrimination and leads to resentment. I think that policy in particular has done more harm than good.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 6:08:30 PM   
blacksword404


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyDommesgirl

There was a time that Canadian's were very proud to welcome immigrants to Canada.

Tragically, the events that occurred on September 11, 2001 and the allegations that they were conducted by extremists from a particular religion have made many Canadians substantially less receptive to welcoming new immigrants. I think my views have been influenced by these events as well.

Around the world, more countries are becoming less and less tolerant of immigrants.

Do you believe the Multi-cultural Model that exists in Canada, is likely to become more like the Melting Pot Model as seen in the USA.

Or do you believe that a Multi-cultural Model can accommodate, pockets of Melting Pots.

As it stands now in Canada, Quebec is an example of a Canadian melting pot, with cultural protections having been written into their provincial laws, conversely Ontario is very supportive to New Immigrants.

All other provinces lie in the shades of grey between the two.

I would really like to know your views




I don't stay in canada so I can't speak to how it works there. So I'll just speak on the ideas themselves.

Multiculturalism is bullshit. What ends up happening usually is people from other countries move in and try to make your country just like the one they ran from at home. A home away from home. Ends up with a fight. One example would be france.

The great melting pot idea works. But only when the ingredients actually melt. Can't have blocks of cheese remain blocks of cheese. Melt and add your flavor to the whole. This works well when the people coming to your country actually want to be canadian.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/26/2011 6:56:56 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Can't comment on that but over here in the UK some of the biggest advocates of multiculturism are calling it a failed experiment. Which is something a hell of a lot of us predicted anyway. Personally I go with my country right or wrong. Don't like it there's the exit door.

If anyone wants to call me racist I will refute the argument but I will readily admit to being culturalist.
I fail to see the benefit to society in general in having schools teaching 17 languages.



But here in the UK multiculturism of the type that was pushed onto us, isnt the same as accepting immigrants warmly. The UK has long since done welcomed immigration, but failed government welfare policies have caused the problems. So called "positive discrimination" is still discrimination and leads to resentment. I think that policy in particular has done more harm than good.


I live in London, which is probably the best example of multiculturalism one can find in the whole world - and guess what - it works fine.

But what is culture? Culture is people living together in one respect. It exists on different levels - you have national culture, regional culture, corporate culture, even the culture of an individual family. Rural culture is pretty much the same I guess all over the world, and every city, where there's more people, has it's own different and unique culture.

The main reason why multiculturalism works in London is that it's developed naturally, independently, people are left to live within their own communities side by side and this is the best possible method of cultural development.

Problems occur when you start to create artificial multiculturalism - such as positive discrimination or, God forbid, political correctness. I'm of the strong opinion that expecting people to integrate fully into a society is expecting too much of them, and that it's simply enough that they are able to function adequately in society on a par with everyone else. There's a natural process of assimilation which needs to be left to develop all on its own.

Observe for example how differently immigrants from the partitioning of the Indian subcontinent were treated to those from the West Indies and the 'banana boat' culture. It's taken four generations for those of Caribbean ancestry to become free of the ghetto segregation policies adopted in the 1960's.

In the UK we're quite advanced when it comes to diversity issues but it's not without its problems. We've had a decade of diversity legislation under New Labour which, thankfully, has been all brought together under Harman's Law or the Equality Act 2010 and Cameron's thrust within the Conservatives towards social justice is also a step in the right direction, particularly with the concept of the Big Society.

But for this to work in practice - and to me it's pointless having any diversity legislation unless people respect it and it becomes part of culture - we still need extensive reforms when it comes to welfare and immigration, and nothing like that what is being proposed. Both the HMRC and the DWP need to get their heads round the concept of 'employability' and to start finding a transitionary route from long term benefit claimants and also people, such as asylum seekers who can spend months in benefit traps - towards being employable in realistic terms to employers.

It's not enough to have people fill out forms to receive benefits and then leave them to their own devices because even after a short period of several weeks people become less and less employable and rather than cutting spending and funding in the overburdened voluntary and community sectors I feel that the Government need to be addressing their opportunities to create this Big Society more towards the people on long term benefits.

This is Britain, which perhaps like the States is an integral part of English language culture. This is a culture the whole world wants to share and be a part of. But it's also a culture we've spent neglecting for a few decades now and you can blame Thatcher, Blair, Brown, and in a year or two you'll have people blaming Cameron as well, but the bottom line is that there's no excuse for the situation we've got ourselves into right now.

No excuses at all.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 3:34:57 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I dont agree about the "ghetto segregation" remark Stella. Incomers normally gravitate to areas where their own nationals are already based. As you know I am from lambeth and hardly saw this happening in Brixton while I was growing up in the sixties. There were no "black streets" or "white streets" and absolutely no policy to house people and make such areas.

I also mentioned "multiculture of the type pushed onto us" and you rightly blame government policy for that. I dont agree that throwing money after the problem is the answer in this instance, as the deficit we have is unsutainable without cuts. When we get back into a period of growth and prosperity, thats the time to do more, at present we dont have that option.

Welcome back btw.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 5:56:55 AM   
gungadin09


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pam


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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 6:04:58 AM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Not sure if that last post was on topic, because i'm not exactly sure what this means:

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyDommesgirl
Do you believe the Multi-cultural Model that exists in Canada, is likely to become more like the Melting Pot Model as seen in the USA.

Or do you believe that a Multi-cultural Model can accommodate, pockets of Melting Pots.


Does it mean people in Canada tend to be more tolerant of cultural differences than people in the U.S?  I wouldn't know.  i've never been to Canada.  i don't have the knowledge to make that kind of prediction.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 11/27/2011 6:10:17 AM >

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 6:08:47 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Pam that was an excellent post and I agree with it 100%.

I welcome cultural diversity completely.

The town I work in has people from all over the world. Meeting people from various parts of Europe, the middle east, the far east, India, Mexico, Africa, where ever......is a daily occurrance if you are out and about. It is something I don't even think of as odd. It just is. Because of that cultural diversity, eating out is absolute agony by the need of having to choose between so many fabulous options.

The bonus of Iowa City is that the people that come here from other countries do so to work and get an education. They are not putting a strain on the local economy or resources, they are benefitting it. The strain of resources comes from some of the major cities within easy driving distance of Iowa City. Cities like Chicago, St Louis, and occasionally Kansas City. Because those cities have pushed out their disadvantaged, in many ways, they look for communities like Iowa City and surrounding communities, to move into.

There are pros and cons. The pros is the diversity and opportunity to expand in ways never imagined before. The cons is that the expansion from those cities also brings a great deal more crime, and it does strain the smaller communities resources in many ways.

Rather than be upset about it, I have seen these smaller communities become very creative in their solutions. They are also very willing to give people a chance to prove themselves, moreso than I would have imagined actually.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 6:25:41 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Pam that was an excellent post and I agree with it 100%.


Well thanks, but i suspect it was also off topic.  The OP doesn't seem to be asking whether i embrace diversity, or whether Americans do, or whether Canadians do, or whether they should.  The thread seems to be about predictions for Canada's future, something that i can offer no educated opinion on.  At least i got a shameless plug in, though.  But seriously, in order to discuss this topic, i think we first need to discuss what people's perceptions are regarding cultural tolerance in Canada vs the U.S.  The OP seems to take for granted that there is a difference, and that Canada is more tolerant.  That could easily be true, but it isn't obvious that it is, at least not to me.  Can we start by asking: do Canadians and the Americans tend to have different attitudes towards cultural assimilation?

pam 

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 11/27/2011 6:26:26 AM >

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 6:29:43 AM   
Kana


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Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyDommesgirl

Do you believe the Multi-cultural Model that exists in Canada, is likely to become more like the Melting Pot Model as seen in the USA.

I would really like to know your views

I believe the world is an open air loony bin.


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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 7:26:35 AM   
PolyDommesgirl


Posts: 75
Joined: 6/17/2011
Status: offline 		I want to thank all of you for your input, thus far, especially from gungadin09 and LaTigresse.

I must admit, initially I found myself being pulled back and forth on this issue.

I can relate to some of the concerns from our cousins in Britain, however I can also relate to positive experiences from my friends in the U.S.A.

I love the cultural exchange that comes with new Immigrants. The foods, clothing, the music, and so much more.

Tragically it is so easy to let the unpleasant things become the focus in life.

I recognize, at least for now, I need to make a conscious effort refocus on the positives.

Having said that, my concern lies with people who come to Canada with no work ethic, combined with a entitlement mentality.

In hindsight, there are existing Canadians that have no work ethic combined with a entitlement mentality.

It has been my observation, those immigrating to the USA, recognize there is no "security blanket." Adaptability is a prerequisite to become an American.

Adaptable people don’t come with an entitlement mentality. The immigrants destined for the USA come ready to work hard, embracing their new found opportunity.

With that said, it does seem to imply that a meting pot concept is better, and perhaps should be a consideration for Canada.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 11:38:05 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"Adaptable people don’t come with an entitlement mentality. The immigrants destined for the USA come ready to work hard, embracing their new found opportunity. "

Some, not all. Of course that can be said for the naitves as well.

T^T

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 12:46:22 PM   
BoxwineForBrunch


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Status: offline 		i am hoping to live long enough to see the death of the vestigial notions of "patriotism" and the end to the tiresome fiction of sacrosanct national boundaries. that is why i jog five miles a day and watch my diet carefully.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 1:02:06 PM   
Ninebelowzero


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Status: offline 		Stella I am the first to say that I am an an anachronistic old sod but I cannot see any benefit whatsoever in multiculturalism. In fact I find it insulting.



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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 1:43:26 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Stella I am the first to say that I am an an anachronistic old sod but I cannot see any benefit whatsoever in multiculturalism. In fact I find it insulting.





To be honest, no multiculturalism is a bit limiting, isn't it? And if you consider Britain, what would be British? Is there such a thing anyway? Because even before the days of the great Empire (you know where Britain basically used and abused all the colonies) there was nothing like "purely British", you always had Wales, Scotland and Cornwall, even before 1066 and William the Conquerer this fair isle was regularly raped pillaged and plundered and you had traces of all different cultures, the Saxons, then you had Danish and Nordic kings, law and rule for ages.

You like curry? I'm sure you do, but yeah, seemingly it's a British dish now...

Of course you got Lizzy, the symbol for everything British and by now most have forgotten that the family name was changed by George V in 1917 to Windsor from Saxe-Coburg and Gotha - very British, you have to admit...

GB is full of influences of every culture, even your language, your towns, in short you could say Britain is an example of multiculturalism over a few thousand years...

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 2:03:16 PM   
Ninebelowzero


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Status: offline 		Errrrr LC I'm English & object to being called British & will continue to do so until the Lothian question is answered.

Culturalism isn't about curry or German beer that's a little facile & way below what you are capable of. Yes I object to multilingualism simply because it serves no long term social purpose.

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RE: Multiculturalism, Melting Pot, or Hybrid - 11/27/2011 2:36:56 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Errrrr LC I'm English & object to being called British & will continue to do so until the Lothian question is answered.

Culturalism isn't about curry or German beer that's a little facile & way below what you are capable of. Yes I object to multilingualism simply because it serves no long term social purpose.



Really, oh well, and there I was, thinking that being at least bilingual is something that comes with advanced education, but then again, I'm neither English nor British.

But if you want to take just England (for some odd reason the Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Cornish really hate the English - must have been due to that proud part of history where the English tried to erase their cultures and force English on them and even punished them for speaking their own native language), England is as product of multiculturalism and has been so due to it's very history.

I can't recall that I mentioned German beer, so how come that is below me, when you brought it up? You simply just ignored the whole history of your country, all the different influences the language had due to that history. Do tell me, what would you consider as pure English? A town that's called Knutsford, which was founded by King Canute (is that a good English name?)... All the towns ending in by are founded by the Danish or Norsemen (Appleby, Grimsby, etc) who regularly raided the English coast and country and gave you kings for a while...

England has always been a melting pot, now the melting doesn't happened anymore by people coming with Viking ships and swords to do a bit rape, pillage and plunder before settling in and bringing their culture with them.

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