quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

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Her own study on the issue is so ridiculously flawed that Harvard should be embarassed to have their name associated with it.

Please point out the errors.

quote:

As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents.

quote:

But the new effort is instead focused on internal spending. Although the insurer's annual spending on administrative expenses has stayed roughly constant since 2001 on a percentage basis - between 10 and 12 percent of premiums - spending has soared because premiums have grown dramatically. In 2002, Blue Cross-Blue Shield spent $406 million on administrative expenses. Last year, it had grown to $705 million.

quote:

Any bankruptcy that included any medical bills was considered a "medical bankruptcy" even if other debts far outweighed the medical debt

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Any bankruptcy that included any medical bills was considered a "medical bankruptcy" even if other debts far outweighed the medical debt

I agree that this is problematic and you raise some other good points as well.

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ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:


Apparently you still dont know how the Federal Government works. I care about how she votes, but not about her thoughts on health care if such a vague and meaningless statistic is what stands out to the OP.

Sure I do. What you don't GET or RESPECT is the right of people within their Senate or Congressional  District TO FIRST ELECT SOMEONE TO REPRESENT THEM. Not California in other words.... Why be an ass about it though? Scott Brown gets his ass kicked whether he goes up against Warren, DeFranco, or my fucking DOG for that matter... So why waste your breath? Or are you posturing for another bet?
   You should worry more about the shit hitting the fan in your own back yard instead of playing Failed Kissinger to the rest of the country.



[image]local://upfiles/18637/C0FC6E8436EB4D9DBD20DB06B7FC2DEB.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

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LMAO. I have no vested interest in healthcare other than trying to be able to continue to provide it to my employees.

Really? What is it you do THIS THREAD for a living Willbe?
Cause months ago I remember you sounding quite differently about your expertise and relationship to healthcare.
Let's get a firm FR on this one for a change

Same thing I have done in every other thread for the past 4 1/2 years. Your memory is about as strong as your grasp on the structure of the Federal government apparently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Some of what she says is true, but there are a few things I like to point out. First off she is talking about what is called Major Medical Insurance. This is what most people have, in medical insurance. What I have seen, is most people go for the low monthly payment. However they fail to understand that there is also a deductable, the rule is low monthly payment, high deductable and vise versa. They don't realize that yes they are covered but there is going to be a large bill because of the deductable. Major medical is mostly accident/health, meaning your covered for accidents and general health issuses. Most policies do not cover things like Cancer and long term care. Most think of long term care as the skilled nursing facility you go to when your old and bed ridden. That is not so, it can mean a visitiing home nurse, long tern phyiscal therapy etc. As an insurance agent, I review the major medical policies as well as supplemental policies and why they need them. As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents. Why so much on Adminstrative costs? Ask the government, they has so many forms that have to be filled out, a admission packet at any hospital is about 3 to 5 inches thick on forms that the government is requires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:


LMAO. I have no vested interest in healthcare other than trying to be able to continue to provide it to my employees.

Really? What is it you do THIS THREAD for a living Willbe?
Cause months ago I remember you sounding quite differently about your expertise and relationship to healthcare.
Let's get a firm FR on this one for a change

Same thing I have done in every other thread for the past 4 1/2 years. Your memory is about as strong as your grasp on the structure of the Federal government apparently.

No, your memory is weak regarding the bullshit you have spewed on here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Some of what she says is true, but there are a few things I like to point out. First off she is talking about what is called Major Medical Insurance. This is what most people have, in medical insurance. What I have seen, is most people go for the low monthly payment. However they fail to understand that there is also a deductable, the rule is low monthly payment, high deductable and vise versa. They don't realize that yes they are covered but there is going to be a large bill because of the deductable. Major medical is mostly accident/health, meaning your covered for accidents and general health issuses. Most policies do not cover things like Cancer and long term care. Most think of long term care as the skilled nursing facility you go to when your old and bed ridden. That is not so, it can mean a visitiing home nurse, long tern phyiscal therapy etc. As an insurance agent, I review the major medical policies as well as supplemental policies and why they need them. As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents. Why so much on Adminstrative costs? Ask the government, they has so many forms that have to be filled out, a admission packet at any hospital is about 3 to 5 inches thick on forms that the government is requires.

quote:

The definition of medical bankruptcy more than doubles the number of people who said they actually filed for that reason

Instead of using a full sample of bankruptcies they took something like 5,000 of them and excluded 80% of them for questionable reasons

Only 20% if those contacted even responded, leading to likely selection bias

The most recent study used a sample from just after the bankruptcy laws changed but assumed that the law change didnt affect the distribution

Any bankruptcy that included any medical bills was considered a "medical bankruptcy" even if other debts far outweighed the medical debt

In the study Warren participated in $1,000 in medical debt automatically made it a "medical bankruptcy", regardless of income or other debt. (That was improved, barely, in the follow up study to $5,000 or 10% of income whichever is less, but if an unexpected 10% of income bill drives you into bankruptcy you were way overextended in the first place).

Loss of income was disregarded as the cause of bankruptcy

And why all of the above? The studies were done by a group of single payer zealots.

She also was found to be playing fast and loose with numbers in her paper on two income families, to the point where it took several attempts to find a journal to publish the "peer reviewed" results.

And btw, the above post about being the only country with medical bankruptices is bullshit. Canada not only includes medical bills in its bankruptcy code, but the rate of bankruptcy in in Canada was higher than in the US.

"The truth is that the majority of debt among bankrupt consumers in both Canada and the United States is comprised of non-medical expenditures and therefore has little to do with health insurance coverage.

On the rare occasion that medical debts do partially contribute to bankruptcy, they likely accumulate from patients’ demands for the kinds of expensive, cutting-edge or end-of-life treatments that would never be covered by government insurance anyway. It is a fact that many of these same types of expensive treatments are increasingly not insured by government healthcare in Canada.

Indeed, if we define medical bankruptcies the way Himmelstein and colleagues did for their study in the United States, we find such bankruptcies also occur in Canada"

quote:

Something is wrong here. My lawyers knew EXACTLY what I intended to do. What's more in a criminal case I would tell my lawyer straight out "Yes I did it, now how do we get me off ? ".

Like the thing with the milk. Those Chymies couldn't litigate their way out of a paper bag. No moxy at all. No way I would pay for that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

The definition of medical bankruptcy more than doubles the number of people who said they actually filed for that reason

Instead of using a full sample of bankruptcies they took something like 5,000 of them and excluded 80% of them for questionable reasons

Only 20% if those contacted even responded, leading to likely selection bias

The most recent study used a sample from just after the bankruptcy laws changed but assumed that the law change didnt affect the distribution

Any bankruptcy that included any medical bills was considered a "medical bankruptcy" even if other debts far outweighed the medical debt

In the study Warren participated in $1,000 in medical debt automatically made it a "medical bankruptcy", regardless of income or other debt. (That was improved, barely, in the follow up study to $5,000 or 10% of income whichever is less, but if an unexpected 10% of income bill drives you into bankruptcy you were way overextended in the first place).

Loss of income was disregarded as the cause of bankruptcy

And why all of the above? The studies were done by a group of single payer zealots.

She also was found to be playing fast and loose with numbers in her paper on two income families, to the point where it took several attempts to find a journal to publish the "peer reviewed" results.

And btw, the above post about being the only country with medical bankruptices is bullshit. Canada not only includes medical bills in its bankruptcy code, but the rate of bankruptcy in in Canada was higher than in the US.

"The truth is that the majority of debt among bankrupt consumers in both Canada and the United States is comprised of non-medical expenditures and therefore has little to do with health insurance coverage.

On the rare occasion that medical debts do partially contribute to bankruptcy, they likely accumulate from patients’ demands for the kinds of expensive, cutting-edge or end-of-life treatments that would never be covered by government insurance anyway. It is a fact that many of these same types of expensive treatments are increasingly not insured by government healthcare in Canada.

Indeed, if we define medical bankruptcies the way Himmelstein and colleagues did for their study in the United States, we find such bankruptcies also occur in Canada"

When you google and copy that much, particularly from multiple sources... attribution is in order.

quote:


Except for the quote at the end I didnt need google for it. My memory isnt fogged by that sea air like yours.

quote:

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/research/chime/papers/myth_vs_fact.pdf

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Some of what she says is true, but there are a few things I like to point out. First off she is talking about what is called Major Medical Insurance. This is what most people have, in medical insurance. What I have seen, is most people go for the low monthly payment. However they fail to understand that there is also a deductable, the rule is low monthly payment, high deductable and vise versa. They don't realize that yes they are covered but there is going to be a large bill because of the deductable. Major medical is mostly accident/health, meaning your covered for accidents and general health issuses. Most policies do not cover things like Cancer and long term care. Most think of long term care as the skilled nursing facility you go to when your old and bed ridden. That is not so, it can mean a visitiing home nurse, long tern phyiscal therapy etc. As an insurance agent, I review the major medical policies as well as supplemental policies and why they need them. As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents. Why so much on Adminstrative costs? Ask the government, they has so many forms that have to be filled out, a admission packet at any hospital is about 3 to 5 inches thick on forms that the government is requires.

Well, you are addressing a few different issues here.

But let's go with this one.

A high deductible does not mean you will be denied coverage.

I have personal insurance and have a $5000 deductible.

The one time I used it was after an accident and the total bill was over 16K.

The insurance company paid and I was able to negotiate with the hospital to reduce my portion of it to half .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Some of what she says is true, but there are a few things I like to point out. First off she is talking about what is called Major Medical Insurance. This is what most people have, in medical insurance. What I have seen, is most people go for the low monthly payment. However they fail to understand that there is also a deductable, the rule is low monthly payment, high deductable and vise versa. They don't realize that yes they are covered but there is going to be a large bill because of the deductable. Major medical is mostly accident/health, meaning your covered for accidents and general health issuses. Most policies do not cover things like Cancer and long term care. Most think of long term care as the skilled nursing facility you go to when your old and bed ridden. That is not so, it can mean a visitiing home nurse, long tern phyiscal therapy etc. As an insurance agent, I review the major medical policies as well as supplemental policies and why they need them. As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents. Why so much on Adminstrative costs? Ask the government, they has so many forms that have to be filled out, a admission packet at any hospital is about 3 to 5 inches thick on forms that the government is requires.

Well, you are addressing a few different issues here.

But let's go with this one.

A high deductible does not mean you will be denied coverage.

I have personal insurance and have a $5000 deductible.

The one time I used it was after an accident and the total bill was over 16K.

The insurance company paid and I was able to negotiate with the hospital to reduce my portion of it to half .

Well I am glad it worked out for you. But I never said a high deductible meant you were not covered, just that usually the monthly payment is small. Some people are not as lucky as you in negotiating a reduced bill. I have been told that there are now collection companies that specialize in collecting unpaid hosptial bills. A 16K bill is somewhat small, many hospital bills are in the 100K, but it does depend on many factores. I had a client who got a 200K bill, the insurance covered all of it but $250.00 which the client could easily afforred and paid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Some of what she says is true, but there are a few things I like to point out. First off she is talking about what is called Major Medical Insurance. This is what most people have, in medical insurance. What I have seen, is most people go for the low monthly payment. However they fail to understand that there is also a deductable, the rule is low monthly payment, high deductable and vise versa. They don't realize that yes they are covered but there is going to be a large bill because of the deductable. Major medical is mostly accident/health, meaning your covered for accidents and general health issuses. Most policies do not cover things like Cancer and long term care. Most think of long term care as the skilled nursing facility you go to when your old and bed ridden. That is not so, it can mean a visitiing home nurse, long tern phyiscal therapy etc. As an insurance agent, I review the major medical policies as well as supplemental policies and why they need them. As to the Adminstrative cost, by California law and most other states, 80 cents of each dollar of medical insurance goes to treatment, Obama wants 85 cents. Why so much on Adminstrative costs? Ask the government, they has so many forms that have to be filled out, a admission packet at any hospital is about 3 to 5 inches thick on forms that the government is requires.

Well, you are addressing a few different issues here.

But let's go with this one.

A high deductible does not mean you will be denied coverage.

I have personal insurance and have a $5000 deductible.

The one time I used it was after an accident and the total bill was over 16K.

The insurance company paid and I was able to negotiate with the hospital to reduce my portion of it to half .

Well I am glad it worked out for you. But I never said a high deductible meant you were not covered, just that usually the monthly payment is small. Some people are not as lucky as you in negotiating a reduced bill. I have been told that there are now collection companies that specialize in collecting unpaid hosptial bills. A 16K bill is somewhat small, many hospital bills are in the 100K, but it does depend on many factores. I had a client who got a 200K bill, the insurance covered all of it but $250.00 which the client could easily afforred and paid.

Well, I guess it is my fault for not making my point clearer.

I had a relatively minor accident and they ran a few tests and kept me one day in the hospital "for observation", and this ending up costing $16,000?

Health care costs in this country are out of control.