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USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 3:47:46 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		It has been said that we are two nations divided by a common language. I think this may also apply to the the BDSM lifestyle.

Two traditions of BDSM developed in the USA & UK prior to the advent of the internet. With the improvement in communication both flavours are available to a much wider public. There is no health warning, to the effect that, what you see may not always be from the same view point.

Is this situation confusing for people not aware of the development of BDSM in recent years?

IMHO both traditions have much to offer the other.

For example, the concept of SSC & RACK have been adopted by most in the UK.

< Message edited by Bugei -- 5/28/2006 4:28:21 AM >

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 3:55:16 AM   
slaveofdarkhold


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		There is never a health warning with regard to BDSM that things may be from the same view point. You can see just by looking at these boards that there is an infinite number of different points of view and I think that would become apparent to people very quickly. I've never noticed a difference based on nationality but it makes sense to think that two seperate communities would have different ideas. That said, look at the size of the US. I'm sure there were BDSM communities all over america with different ideas. I'm sure there were people within the same club with different ideas. If anything, you could argue that the internet has allowed all these ideas to mix and the distinction is no longer there.

(in reply to Bugei)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 4:32:48 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I see no difference in USA Bdsmers or UK Bdsmers or Australian Bdsmers or SA Bdsmers.... et al.  But then I look at the person I am communicating with as unique, not their place of birth.
The only difference is between individual relationships and people.
I have never seen a 'them and us mentality' relating to Cross - continent Bdsm, only by people who want there to be a difference and try to create one.
 
We are all people.  Sure, there may be a slight language difference, but anyone worth the effort or time will be able to cross that.  I am friends and converse with an Italian dominant who's english is poor, and my italian is non existant - but we deal - communication is still there.
 
I dislike SSC completely and I am from the UK.  I do support R.A.C.K - but wouldn't say everyone, not even most in the BDSM community here, support either.  But that is just my experience.
 
There are bound to be cultural difference, but there are those within countries as well.  North & south USA... celtic & ethnic UK  - there will always be differences.  I am orignally from London, but I live out in the country in Cornwall.  Not everyone here speaks cornish - so you look at the individuals first, not whether they are cornish or not.  The key IMO is to not concentrate so much on where people come from, but their individual beliefs and needs or desires.
 
Trying to seperate peoples by pigeon-holing them because they come from a certain country or background (even in Bdsm) just leads to miscommunication and bigotry.
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:02:40 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Is the context of your reply real life face to face contact or cyber communications?

In my experience 100% of UK BDSM club events and most private play parties require participants to conform to SSC/RACK though they may not use those terms.

I recent times, have never knowingly met anyone in the UK BDSM lifestyle that subscribes to non consensual physically destructive play.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:25:36 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
It is preferable that you do not take my words and make them into your own liking.
This could be why you are finding it difficult to communicate with others when contacting them (Re your previous post).  I did NOT state that play was non consensual or destructive.  You have chosen to take words and twist them to your own understanding, which was incorrect and shows a lack of manners IMO.
What I said was that some people I know within the BDSM and Fetish community do not chose to use the labels SSC nor R.A.C.K - they simply understand the concept of consensual, without the need to feel they have to define themselves or it.  This was in reference to your statement on 'most people' - a generalisation.
 
As it is, from my understanding the BDSM community on the whole whether USA, Canadian, UK or whatever country understand the concept of consensual kink and play.  Whether they use the acronym of SSC or R.A.C.K is more a personal choice, not a ethnic one.
 
As to whether this is online or face-to-face, I was speaking in the latter - within this forum - as we are talking experiences that have occured on a personal and conscious level - 'realtime' if You prefere that term(although I am sure some people feel that online communication is just as much 'real' to them as talking across a table - Freedom of personal choice and all that).  But the same can be said for online communication as well.
 
Peace and Rapture
 
*edit for urgh... those typos


< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 5/28/2006 6:26:51 AM >

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:36:42 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

I recent times, have never knowingly met anyone in the UK BDSM lifestyle that subscribes to non consensual physically destructive play.



The other terms for 'non consensual physically destructive play' would include 'rape', 'assault' and 'grevious bodily harm'.  I don't think the word 'play' applies.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:38:26 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

Is the context of your reply real life face to face contact or cyber communications?

In my experience 100% of UK BDSM club events and most private play parties require participants to conform to SSC/RACK though they may not use those terms.

I recent times, have never knowingly met anyone in the UK BDSM lifestyle that subscribes to non consensual physically destructive play.



Have you attended events or met people here who did not sucscribe to those concepts?  I've played in the US and the UK and know several people in both places, and I didn't see any differences in the safety of play.  Of course that is just a small sample of everyone involved in BDSM, and I am sure there are unsafe people in both locations.  I think it's more of a personal issue rather than a continental issue.
 
Be well,
Julie

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:45:34 AM   
SilverWulf


Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei
In my experience 100% of UK BDSM club events and most private play parties require participants to conform to SSC/RACK though they may not use those terms.

I recent times, have never knowingly met anyone in the UK BDSM lifestyle that subscribes to non consensual physically destructive play.



I have attended many large events, as well as numerous smaller play parties and have never been to one where SSC was not the law of the land.

I have never met anyone who subscribes to non consensual physically destructive play.  That would be rape, kidnapping, torture, assault, battery, etc... which I'm sure you know, is illegal.

All in the US.

Do you think non-SSC play is a common practice in the US? 

(in reply to Bugei)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:48:21 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		I apologise if I offended you.

To put my comment into context . Pre internet it was not uncommon at play parties for submissives (read slaves/subs) to have no safe words and no input as to what happened to them. A doctor was often present and the only person who could stop any play was the Dominant or the doctor. A lot of what happened would have been termed abuse today. I make no judgement, it was how things were.

When I said SSC/RACK was one thing that we had adopted from the USA, I was also inferring that things had changed since other ideas had been more available and that the exchange of ideas was a good thing.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:53:48 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		Being a newbie, it took me almost the entire thread to figure out what SSC meant.  Now that I understand it, I have to say that it's been stressed in every different BDSM group that I've visited so far.  I'm in Texas, so I guess that makes it USA.
 
My own thought is, if it ISN'T consensual, it can't be BDSM.  People choose to live or play a certain way.  If a slave hasn't chosen to be a slave in the BDSM context, then they ARE actually slaves and are being abused according to law.  Outright slavery is illegal here.  So is abuse, rape, torture, and murder.
 
zuma

(in reply to SilverWulf)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:54:13 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		See my last post :

I make exactly the same comment as you but my view point is from the UK. Today SSC/RACK is the norm.

We seem to have gone off at a tangent though from my original post :(

The SSC/RACK thing was an example of communication not an issue.

(in reply to SilverWulf)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:56:23 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		Your last post was done while I was working on mine, so I didn't see it before I hit the 'OK' button for my own.  Sorry 'bout that.
 
zuma

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 6:59:34 AM   
SilverWulf


Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline 		It is not uncommon at play parties where SSC is recognized and 'enforced' to have slaves with no safe words.  Alot of what happens, taken out of context, could easily be termed abuse by someone who does not know what is going on.  My girl, for instance, does not have a safeword.

At most play parties, the only ones able to stop a scene are the Dominant or the Dungeon Master/Monitor.  Anyone else stepping in would be removed from the premisis forcefully.

What is SSC to you, does not necessarily meet My definition of SSC, and vice-versa.

(in reply to Bugei)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:02:14 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		I do not know what the legal position is in the USA but in general terms BDSM in all but its very mildest form is illegal in the UK (marks that last for more than 10 min) and the submissive is guilty of aiding and abetting. In reality the law turns a blind eye but you are still at risk here. They are also about to make SM pick illegal ranking with child porn (over simplification but near the mark).

(in reply to zumala)
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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:04:02 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		Your good manners more than makes up for it lol.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:05:50 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		That surprises me - I'd have thought the UK would be more accepting of that sort of activity than the US.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:13:53 AM   
Bugei


Posts: 40
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: West Wales UK
Status: offline 		I do not subscribe to SSC. My own preferred description is RACK. What I do can be dangerous and my slave has consented to giving up her safe word when she signed her contract five years ago. She is switch, submissive only to me and as a Domme has been an owner of slaves in her own right. We are both sadistic and some have said our play is edgy. The reference to extreme play in the dim and distant past was of play that would not be permitted in any club or event today.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:16:48 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not sure if the differences you perceive are between the UK and the US, or between you and everyone else.

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:25:10 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
UK is more understand on the whole I believe, becca - but I think that the new UK pressure is also a kickback from the US 2257.  You know how pally bush and blair are.
 
Peace and Rapture
 

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: USA BDSM - UK BDSM - 5/28/2006 7:36:42 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

That surprises me - I'd have thought the UK would be more accepting of that sort of activity than the US.


You might like to check out details of the Spanner case
http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/span/span1.html

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