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American Police State - 12/1/2011 8:49:42 AM   
petgirl1991


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline 		http://current.com/community/93562155_61-senators-betrayed-you-today-they-authorized-the-indefinite-suspension-of-habeus-corpus-updated.htm

Yes, Sirs, Ladies, subs, and switches, Americans now technically live in a police state. The level of the government's stupidity disgusts girl.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 9:04:41 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Is the government stupid, or the people who allow such continuing encroachment?

(in reply to petgirl1991)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 9:07:09 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You really need to get your information correct. You should also not link to youtube for a viable source.

"UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States."

You will find that in Sec 1032. Maybe I am missing something but that actually prevents this Bill from creating a police state.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to petgirl1991)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 9:18:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, that one. Yes, Ishtarr started a thread on that already. The way the law is written is clear.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3940622/tm.htm

pet, the exact words of those two sections are there. Perhaps you should read them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 10:57:39 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

"UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States."


The REQUIREMENT. It used to be that if you weren't in the military they couldn't generally touch you under most circumstances. Now they can if the offense comes under their definition of terrorism. Ever read that ? It's a pretty fucking broad definition.

This is nothing new, read the Trading With The Enemy act and similar wording is there as well. Not generlly invoked, but there just in case.

The problem is that this government is getting too nasty to the People to have too much "just in case". It's time for someone to fucking do something and they know it. These actions can only indicate that they intend to plunder our wealth (what's left) as long as possible and probable in new and very unpopular ways.

You will see just how many jails they can build. In fact, you might find that the tinfoilhatters were right and there are already a bunch of them built, just waiting for anyone with a fucking backbone.

Of course some people think that every building the government puts up in a remote location is either a secret detention center or another area 51. That's not true, but some are........

T^T

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:00:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Section 1031

(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:


(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.


(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

Section 1032

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:07:04 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		It's funny to see someone who refers to herself as "this girl" bitching about rights.

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:08:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol ... ok... on that I have to agree with you, rob. That is funny.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:27:46 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		First of all, I am not sure that American citizens aren't affected:  I have cited an article below that seems to indicate American citizens can be detained.

Second of all, you really think it is OK to hold non citizens indefinitely without a trial or advocacy, just because they are suspected of terrorism and aren't Americans?  I think we used to be a better country than that. 

I agree with girl on this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/29/senate-votes-to-let-military-detain-americans-indefinitely_n_1119473.html?igoogle=1


WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Tuesday to keep a controversial provision to let the military detain terrorism suspects on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without trial -- prompting White House officials to reissue a veto threat. The measure, part of the massive National Defense Authorization Act, was also opposed by civil libertarians on the left and right. But 16 Democrats and an independent joined with Republicans to defeat an amendment by Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) that would have killed the provision, voting it down with 61 against, and 37 for it. "I'm very, very, concerned about having U.S. citizens sent to Guantanamo Bay for indefinite detention," said Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), one of the Senate's most conservative members. Paul's top complaint is that a terrorism suspect would get just one hearing where the military could assert that the person is a suspected terrorist -- and then they could be locked up for life, without ever formally being charged. The only safety valve is a waiver from the secretary of defense. "It's not enough just to be alleged to be a terrorist," Paul said, echoing the views of the American Civil Liberties Union. "That's part of what due process is -- deciding, are you a terrorist? I think it's important that we not allow U.S. citizens to be taken."

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 12/1/2011 11:28:27 AM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:29:12 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petgirl1991

http://current.com/community/93562155_61-senators-betrayed-you-today-they-authorized-the-indefinite-suspension-of-habeus-corpus-updated.htm

Yes, Sirs, Ladies, subs, and switches, Americans now technically live in a police state. The level of the government's stupidity disgusts girl.



Wow, "Hope and Change" is taking on a whole new meaning isn't it?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to petgirl1991)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:32:53 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Too true, you dont know the half of it

OBAMA LAWYERS: Americans legitimate targets in war on terror...

Only executive branch, not courts, decides...

quote:

ORIGINAL: petgirl1991

Yes, Sirs, Ladies, subs, and switches, Americans now technically live in a police state. The level of the government's stupidity disgusts girl.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to petgirl1991)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 11:34:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Anyone realize what this is truly all about?

The 2012 National Defense Authorization Act would authorize defense spending on military personnel, weapons and war. The first draft of the bill won support from both parties in Congress in October, passing out of the Senate Armed Services Committee with just Udall dissenting. A similar House bill allocating $690 billion for the Pentagon passed in May, without the controversial measure. It could be changed when the differing versions are merged, if Congress desires.

Nothing more, nothing less.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 12:42:37 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I am just waiting for the firing squads

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 5:00:00 PM   
Masta808


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline 		Well not yet Kenyan Secret Muslim Obama has to sign the bill into law. But liberal progressive is threatening to veto the bill. This only proves that he Hates America.

_____________________________

Its impossible to make people understand their ignorance for it requires knowledge to perceive it & therefore he that can perceive it hath it not

The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance

(in reply to petgirl1991)
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RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 7:37:11 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Section 1031

(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:


(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.


(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

Section 1032

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

The Senate rejected an effort by Feinstein to limit a military custody requirement for suspects to those captured outside the United States. The vote was 55-45. Feinstein said her goal was to ensure "the military won't be roaming our streets looking for suspected terrorists."

The issue divided Democrats, with nine senators, many facing re-election next year, breaking with their leadership and administration to vote against the amendment. Republicans held firm, with only Sens. Rand Paul of Kentucky, Mark Kirk of Illinois and Mike Lee of Utah backing Feinstein's effort.

"We need the authority to hold those individuals in military custody so we aren't reading them Miranda rights," Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., said in defense of the legislation."

Oh, I forgot this is exactly how the Nazis did it people. Once Hitler was in power and immediately after the burning of the Reichstag, well they were being attacked, just like we are forever...being attacked. The laws were changed to rob the rights of the German people and Jews in particular.

The neo-cons are just more patient and this bill shows their patience wearing thin. We do not now have a real police state...but it IS coming.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/1/2011 8:21:37 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: American Police State - 12/1/2011 7:39:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ah then I did indeed read that wrong.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: American Police State - 12/18/2011 6:19:56 PM   
Sepultura


Posts: 18
Joined: 12/17/2011
Status: offline 		Coming soon to you...and me....and a lot of other people...a federal conspiracy indictment.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: American Police State - 12/18/2011 6:52:44 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Ya gotsta unnerstand, let it be.

This shit is human nature, by way of a class war. Why can't governments, whether direct democracies or absolute dictatoships live harmoniously with their subjects ? Why must there be supression and oppression and fear - ON BOTH SIDES of the bureau ?

Human nature. Human nature includes greed, and greed induces interclass strife. If you take that vantage point in all you view in history, it is crystal clear.

Someone said recently in another thread that democracy does not equal freedom. This is true. What's more democracy is proven to fail eery time, at least in the eyes of those who founded this country. That is why they formed the republic, which is now gone. You can't just elect people because you like them, or even their viewpoints. In a republic there ought to be people with intellect among the People who know that you cannot vote your whims or for your personal favorites. You must vote for those who can meet the crises as they occur and respond, not react, in the manner which will benefit the country the most, not their friends, NOR YOURS EITHER.

A republic only differs from a democracy in it's statesmen. One has them, the other does not, at least in postions of power. In case anyone hadn't noticed, the US is no longer a republic.

If I were dictator of this country....... let's say I invented a superweapon and simply took power and all heads of state were to obey me. What would be my dictates ?

Well let me tell you this, the common Man would enjoy the most personal freedom in history, and these supposed statesmen would be under the most serious scrutiny ever.

In a democracy, if your neighbors don't want you to paint your house red, they can take up a vote and keep you from doing so. Many of you may think this is right, but where I come from if you don't like the neighborhood you move, not tell them to accomodate you. But the majority can do that for better or worse in a democracy. They can vote that you can't wear green shorts, must wear a bra or keep your car washed, things they have no fucking right to dictate to anyone else. But being a majority they can. This is wrong.

The trick to governing a free society is that you must restricgt the restrictions. If a person does not harm anyone they should be entitled to do anything they damnwell please. But overpopulation has made this practically impossible for the common Man, and that is what has driven the elite to persue wealth so fervently, that it may provide those freedoms for themselves and their kin. They care not that it comes at the expense of every other living thing on the planet.

Men of bad instincts truly are of greater number than the good, the reason you don't know this is because the former are living in nice, secure, gated and secluded communities. Away from you and I. I mean an armed guard at the gate - of the entire neighborhood. They only want to live the way they want to live, there's nothing wrong with that. Except for the fact that we do not enjoy the same "right".

Might makes right and money makes might.

T^T

(in reply to Sepultura)
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RE: American Police State - 12/18/2011 6:58:23 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sepultura

Coming soon to you...and me....and a lot of other people...a federal conspiracy indictment.

...don't need one. They can pick you up and whisk you away without a fucking word. Then once at GITMO, time for some of that oh so hot, exciting enhanced rendition.

Have fun kinkroids all expenses paid, tropical beach island, room & board, masos get a good beating and then maybe...maybe, take you home since you were after all...just another nobody.

This will come in very handy next time we have martial law. There have already been drills and training of the NG to patrol streets and set up road blocks. You will be stopped, you will need papers (ID) with you and your car completely searched anytime for any reason.

The middle class, the independents and radicals will ask for this because if you are not in favor of the coming fascism, (security) then you will be a suspect and then if necessary...a traitor. Then it's on to GITMO or wherever they wish to take you.

(in reply to Sepultura)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: American Police State - 12/18/2011 8:50:22 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually they've been able to do it for a very long time, they just used to have to keep it quiet.

T^T

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 20
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