quote:

ORIGINAL: ilearn

I always play a game with all my dates, called spot the lie. It is a popular game.
You make 4 statements.

One of them is an obvious lie, the other are things about you.

1) I love the color red.
2) I am grey and balding.
3) I was the pilot on the original mission to moon.
4) Heather Locklear is my favorite actress.


It is a nice game and the obvious lie is easy to spot. The other one is not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

After reading a good deal of posts here, one of the most common topics discussed is the lie. People are routinely accused of lying, and the term "liar" is bandied about like a badminton shuttle. What I wonder is this: Have we stopped to consider what a lie really is?

Here is an easily accessable web definition of lie.

To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement as truth.

Let's explore the concept. Imagine you said something like, "The service at McDonalds blows." Did you tell a lie right then? Certainly, the entity McDonalds does not have the necessary mouth or lungs, so could not hope to blow anything.

Let's explore further. Imagine someone asked you if you were asked if you were going to the Kenny G concert, and you replied with an eyeroll, "Yes I am, and monkeys might fly out of my butt." Did you just tell a double lie? Clearly you don't want to go to the Kenny G concert, and there is no way monkeys could actually fly out of your butt.

Here's an article from The Onion. http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-bipartisan-law-would-make-dog-neckerchiefs-man,26301/ Is this article nothing but a big pile of lies? After all, it does talk about a new law making the wearing of dog neckerchiefs mandatory, a law that does not actually exist.


From one I can tell, none of these statements are actually lies. In order for something to be a lie, there must be an intent to deceive. In order for "And monkeys might fly out of my butt" to be a lie, you must actually intend the other person to believe that your butt is a nest of baby winged monkeys. Likewise, if that Onion article is nothing but lies, then every single comedy routine on SNL is a lie.

Your thoughts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Maybe I should remark that the lie depends on what you THINK that it is true.

You have a colleague, who told you "If my wife asks, I am in the bar" but you know that he is going to visit his lover. You agree. Later, without your knowledge, he finds out that her lover is herself enjoying a BBC and goes to the bar. The wife calls the colleague: "Where is my husband?" The answer "In the bar" is still a lie, even if the man is actually indeed in the bar, because the person who says it thinks otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm guessing this is in reference to the other thread you posted where you decided to change a key phrase to emphasize a point.  I'm not a participant on that thread, but I did read it. 

This is just My opinion, of course, but I didn't find your original to be intellectually honest.  You revealed what you were doing by post three, but it really should have been contained in the opening post.  In a sense, you did specifically intend to deceive, and then chose to label it satire.  A disclaimer would have been much more appropriate.  It also would have allowed your topic to be discussed, rather than the method that you presented it with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

After reading a good deal of posts here, one of the most common topics discussed is the lie. People are routinely accused of lying, and the term "liar" is bandied about like a badminton shuttle. What I wonder is this: Have we stopped to consider what a lie really is?

Here is an easily accessable web definition of lie.

To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement as truth.

Let's explore the concept. Imagine you said something like, "The service at McDonalds blows." Did you tell a lie right then? Certainly, the entity McDonalds does not have the necessary mouth or lungs, so could not hope to blow anything.

Let's explore further. Imagine someone asked you if you were asked if you were going to the Kenny G concert, and you replied with an eyeroll, "Yes I am, and monkeys might fly out of my butt." Did you just tell a double lie? Clearly you don't want to go to the Kenny G concert, and there is no way monkeys could actually fly out of your butt.

Here's an article from The Onion. http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-bipartisan-law-would-make-dog-neckerchiefs-man,26301/ Is this article nothing but a big pile of lies? After all, it does talk about a new law making the wearing of dog neckerchiefs mandatory, a law that does not actually exist.


From one I can tell, none of these statements are actually lies. In order for something to be a lie, there must be an intent to deceive. In order for "And monkeys might fly out of my butt" to be a lie, you must actually intend the other person to believe that your butt is a nest of baby winged monkeys. Likewise, if that Onion article is nothing but lies, then every single comedy routine on SNL is a lie.

Your thoughts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

After reading a good deal of posts here, one of the most common topics discussed is the lie. People are routinely accused of lying, and the term "liar" is bandied about like a badminton shuttle. What I wonder is this: Have we stopped to consider what a lie really is?

Here is an easily accessable web definition of lie.

To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement as truth.

Let's explore the concept. Imagine you said something like, "The service at McDonalds blows." Did you tell a lie right then? Certainly, the entity McDonalds does not have the necessary mouth or lungs, so could not hope to blow anything.

Let's explore further. Imagine someone asked you if you were asked if you were going to the Kenny G concert, and you replied with an eyeroll, "Yes I am, and monkeys might fly out of my butt." Did you just tell a double lie? Clearly you don't want to go to the Kenny G concert, and there is no way monkeys could actually fly out of your butt.

Here's an article from The Onion. http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-bipartisan-law-would-make-dog-neckerchiefs-man,26301/ Is this article nothing but a big pile of lies? After all, it does talk about a new law making the wearing of dog neckerchiefs mandatory, a law that does not actually exist.


From one I can tell, none of these statements are actually lies. In order for something to be a lie, there must be an intent to deceive. In order for "And monkeys might fly out of my butt" to be a lie, you must actually intend the other person to believe that your butt is a nest of baby winged monkeys. Likewise, if that Onion article is nothing but lies, then every single comedy routine on SNL is a lie.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are who in their right mind would want to go to a Kenny G concert?

And I've actually met the guy in a social setting and his personality matches his music.

But more to the point, I don't know whether you are just trying to be sarcastic or don't realize that The Onion is comedy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

After reading a good deal of posts here, one of the most common topics discussed is the lie. People are routinely accused of lying, and the term "liar" is bandied about like a badminton shuttle. What I wonder is this: Have we stopped to consider what a lie really is?

Here is an easily accessable web definition of lie.

To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement as truth.

Let's explore the concept. Imagine you said something like, "The service at McDonalds blows." Did you tell a lie right then? Certainly, the entity McDonalds does not have the necessary mouth or lungs, so could not hope to blow anything.

Let's explore further. Imagine someone asked you if you were asked if you were going to the Kenny G concert, and you replied with an eyeroll, "Yes I am, and monkeys might fly out of my butt." Did you just tell a double lie? Clearly you don't want to go to the Kenny G concert, and there is no way monkeys could actually fly out of your butt.

Here's an article from The Onion. http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-bipartisan-law-would-make-dog-neckerchiefs-man,26301/ Is this article nothing but a big pile of lies? After all, it does talk about a new law making the wearing of dog neckerchiefs mandatory, a law that does not actually exist.


From one I can tell, none of these statements are actually lies. In order for something to be a lie, there must be an intent to deceive. In order for "And monkeys might fly out of my butt" to be a lie, you must actually intend the other person to believe that your butt is a nest of baby winged monkeys. Likewise, if that Onion article is nothing but lies, then every single comedy routine on SNL is a lie.

Your thoughts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Maybe I should remark that the lie depends on what you THINK that it is true.

You have a colleague, who told you "If my wife asks, I am in the bar" but you know that he is going to visit his lover. You agree. Later, without your knowledge, he finds out that her lover is herself enjoying a BBC and goes to the bar. The wife calls the colleague: "Where is my husband?" The answer "In the bar" is still a lie, even if the man is actually indeed in the bar, because the person who says it thinks otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This is just My opinion, of course, but I didn't find your original to be intellectually honest. You revealed what you were doing by post three, but it really should have been contained in the opening post. In a sense, you did specifically intend to deceive, and then chose to label it satire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
It was misleading. Intentionally so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I'm sorry it wasn't received by all in the way you intended it to.
I suggest from now on being VERY FORWARD with the fact that you are changing text to make a point. That way we're all on the same page and can discuss the merits of your thoughts.
I actually agreed with a lot of what you said. It was the execution itself that was flawed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

I never said it was a lie. It was misleading though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha
Point taken.

I actually feel a little sorry for those whom were duped into believing that Bachmann actually said those ridiculous things. After all, no one who actually got the intent of the post would be so hypocritical to claim it was a lie; only those who were actually duped into believing it as true would do so.