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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This really isn't a Politics and Religion debate.  The thread it's based on was. 

In reply to xxblushesxx you said

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ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha
Point taken.

I actually feel a little sorry for those whom were duped into believing that Bachmann actually said those ridiculous things. After all, no one who actually got the intent of the post would be so hypocritical to claim it was a lie; only those who were actually duped into believing it as true would do so.

I don't believe the above to be true, either.  I got the intent of the post, don't believe Myself to be a hypocrite, and still say it was untrue.  The premise that nobody would believe it doesn't change the bottom line.  You intentionally misquoted what the woman said on what you believed was your poetic license to do so to illustrate your point.

Here is My question for you.  If you decide that you have another point to illustrate, is it just as acceptable for you to go back and find one of My past statements, and change a few words around so you can come up with something that I didn't say?  Does plausibility of whatever you changed My statement to change the fact that your version isn't what I actually said?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Here is My question for you.  If you decide that you have another point to illustrate, is it just as acceptable for you to go back and find one of My past statements, and change a few words around so you can come up with something that I didn't say?  Does plausibility of whatever you changed My statement to change the fact that your version isn't what I actually said?
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ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha
I think you're missing the point of the discussion, and are hung up on the first part of the definition (A statement made with disregard for the truth).

In order for something to be a lie, it must also be told with the intent that the listener will believe it. If, by altering your quotation, I was intending other people to actually believe you had said the altered words, I would be lying. If I did not intend such, it isn't a lie. If you ignore this part of the definition, sarcasm, jokes, satire, etc. all suddenly become lies when they really aren't.

To put it simply, you're trying to equate "being inaccurate" with "being a lie." They are not the same thing.


As to whether the topic of this thread meshes with the forum, I'd say that philosophy nicely dovetails into religion. After all, Thal shalt not bear false witness is one of the Ten Commandments.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact


In what other area do we judge a statement to be truth or falsehood by the interpretation of a third party?  That logic leads to person A lies, knowing what they said is false, but if nobody believes it, the statement ceases to be a lie.  It doesn't become the truth just because nobody believes it.  The comment is still just as untrue when person A said it.

The argument that satire, jokes, etc aren't really lies doesn't really hold because if the statement is untrue, it doesn't change what was said into the truth.  The purpose of what is being said (entertainment) doesn't alter the basic fact that it's still a falsehood.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I went an pulled the definition:

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. 2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one. 3. an inaccurate or false statement. 4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.

Obviously, we are not going to agree here.  I will leave you to your justifications.

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I understood that your post was satire. I could tell just by reading the post that Bachmann was talking about gay marriage and I hadn't read the original.

I can sympathize with people who didn't realize that the post was satire, but not with people who believed that you were intentionally trying to lie and convince people that Bachmann had spoken out against interracial marriage.

I do suggest that next time you add a bit at the bottom saying "this is satire, I am drawing a parallel to gay marriage" only because I've found this section of this website is full of people who will jump on any chance to argue and insult like ants who find a chicken bone. If I do post here I generally try to do so in a way that won't feed those people's ability to do so, because I lack patience for that sort of thing.

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Eta - I did have a "WTF?" moment when I read the OP on that thread, but Tazzy cleared it up for me in post two.