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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 4:45:20 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Raptor,I'm sorry but I have no interest in discussing football with such a neophyte...especially one whose arrogance blinds him to his deficiancies.
Were we to continue this discussion we would need to go back to the beginning,ala Vince Lombardy we would need to start the education by holding up a football and saying....."this is a football",and only than could we go on


A neophyte where if we were going to compare real-life credentials would have worlds more than you.

You know nothing and now you're hiding behind that. It's fine, you can swear about Tebow as much as you'd like. You can bemoan all of his success. It won't make you any better than him and it won't teach you how to properly use paragraphs while posting on a forum.

You've stated no deficiencies for the spread option in the NFL. All you said is: "THEY BIG AND FAST!"

They're big and fast no matter what system you're running.

You have no argument and rather than admit that you try to condescend to your obvious superior. Go back to crying because Tebow gives his glory to a deity you don't believe in.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 5:04:22 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Tell me... why do you want Tebow to fail?

Because he played for Florida?

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 5:29:15 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		So tell us oh wise one...if the option is such an effective weapon why is it not employed by any of the other PRO teams.Why has the PRO game,since the age of Luckman and Baugh eschewed this wondorous offensive system?
Short answer is that it is not a viable nor a substainable offense in the NFL where college linebackers wind up as safties,where down lineman wind up as linebackers,where college all americans cant even make the cut.The players are bigger,faster and smarter in the pros,the qb position is too valuable and depends far too much on the ability to pick up large chunks of yardage by competantly throwing the ball down the field.
How many scrambling/running qb's have won championships in the PRO game?
How long do you think Tebow can survive in the PRO game taking the beating he is taking?
Sorry pal but this isnt Pop Warner,this is the NFL and if you cant stand in the pocket and throw the fucking ball you cant play at this level.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:06:24 PM   
servantforuse


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Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Lets not forget that Tebow is a rookie and has started in only a handful of games. He will need a year or 2 under his belt just like every other rookie quarterback.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:13:54 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Lets not forget that Tebow is a rookie and has started in only a handful of games. He will need a year or 2 under his belt just like every other rookie quarterback.


Tebow is not a rookie, in fact he was named NFL Rookie of the week twice in the 2010 season, week 10 and week 16.

Joe Flacco, Alex Shanchez and Tim Ryan have all shown rookie QB's can win and in the cases of Flacco and Sanchez, go deep into the play-offs.


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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:17:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Nope servant you got that simple fact wrong too...this is Tebows second year,not his first.Though as far as learning curve is concerned it might as well be.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:25:35 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		In my mind he is still a rookie. I think he started 3, may 4 games last year before getting the nod this year. How can you judge a quarterback with so few starts.? Atlanta cut Brett Favre before giving him a chance and it was something Jerry Granville never lived down. Give him a little more time

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:29:24 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Oh,so if in your mind he was a rookie.....that makes it so ?
Lol,never have I heard such a lame assed way of saying......'ooops ,I was wrong"

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:31:45 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I learn a lot from the liberals on here.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/12/2011 6:58:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Ben Roethlisberger was 14–1 including playoffs as a rookie.

Dan Marino went 7-2 as Rookie and led the Dolphins to the Play-Offs in 1983

And as I have mentioned, Flacco, Sanchez and Ryan all took their teams to the Play-offs in their rookie seasons, Flacco and Sanchez going to the AFC Championships

Rookie QB's can win in the NFL.

BTW... Tom Brady in 2001 as a 2nd year player went 14-3 as a starter and won the Superbowl. In Brady's rookie year of 2000 he played in ONE game and went 1-3 passing for a total of six yards.


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 11:04:55 AM   
TheRaptorJesus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So tell us oh wise one...if the option is such an effective weapon why is it not employed by any of the other PRO teams.Why has the PRO game,since the age of Luckman and Baugh eschewed this wondorous offensive system?
Short answer is that it is not a viable nor a substainable offense in the NFL where college linebackers wind up as safties,where down lineman wind up as linebackers,where college all americans cant even make the cut.The players are bigger,faster and smarter in the pros,the qb position is too valuable and depends far too much on the ability to pick up large chunks of yardage by competantly throwing the ball down the field.
How many scrambling/running qb's have won championships in the PRO game?
How long do you think Tebow can survive in the PRO game taking the beating he is taking?
Sorry pal but this isnt Pop Warner,this is the NFL and if you cant stand in the pocket and throw the fucking ball you cant play at this level.


Super bowls won by the Roethlesberger and Rodgers were both won by quarterbacks the utilize scrambling (especially in Ben's case) often. And that's 3 RECENTLY.

The game is constantly evolving and changing. The reason this system hasn't been used of late is because the NFL becomes so homogenized that coaches, unless they're someone with the repute of Bill Belichick, are afraid to go against the grain. How many offenses utilized a 2 tight end set often in the last decade? Very few. How's it working for New England now? Splendidly.

People originally said that the spread had no place in the NFL. Look at what New England, New Orleans, and Green Bay are doing with it now.

You still haven't given any reason why the spread option won't work. You've only said that the athletes are better in the pros. That's fine, there's elite athletes running the offense as well. I don't know why you're too feeble-minded to grasp that point.

The ONLY knock on the spread option is that it makes the Quarterback more vulnerable to hits. That is the ONLY knock against it. Franchise Quarterbacks are paid too much to be put in front of the fire like that. But if you have a systemic overhaul, you can use undervalued guys in that system.

You can't name a schematic failure. You can't give any reason. You can only continue to try to condescend which doesn't work when you don't even have a leg to stand on. Aside from defenses being fast and strong (which they are against EVERY offense) give an actual reason why the spread option will stop working.

Oh yeah, you can't.




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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 12:19:31 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I already explained why the QB option doesn't work in the pros.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 12:29:28 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I learn a lot from the liberals on here.

But you have actually admitted to being wrong. That goes a long way with me, for what its worth!

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 12:36:02 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I already explained why the QB option doesn't work in the pros.


Well, I'm not going to dig through the thread to find a factually inaccurate post.

You also were not braying as loudly or vulgarly as the fellow I've been addressing.


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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 12:41:35 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I already explained why the QB option doesn't work in the pros.


If the Broncos had not gone 7-1 to date, your argument would hold much better.


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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 1:11:12 PM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

How many scrambling/running qb's have won championships in the PRO game?



Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Bobby Douglass, Kordell Stewart, Roger Staubach, Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick.  Just to name a few.

Not all of them have won championships, but they've all enjoyed success at the pro level.  And Cam Newton is just beginning a career that looks like it's going to be very bright.

Scrambling is just another weapon in a QB's arsenal.  It's not a negative.  It can only help a quarterback.  What can be a negative is if the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball.  After all, throwing the ball is a prerequisite for the position.  But scrambling makes the QB more versatile, and gives the defense more things to worry about. 

What do you think would have happened if Dan Marino or Peyton Manning were able to run like Michael Vick? 

quote:


How long do you think Tebow can survive in the PRO game taking the beating he is taking?


Ben Roethlisberger has taken 309 career sacks, and he's still going strong.  Tebow would have to play for a very long time to catch up to Roethlisberger.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 12/13/2011 1:14:02 PM >

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 1:28:41 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

How many scrambling/running qb's have won championships in the PRO game?



Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Doug Flutie, Bobby Douglass, Kordell Stewart, Roger Staubach, Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, John Elway, Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick.  Just to name a few.

Not all of them have won championships, but they've all enjoyed success at the pro level.  And Cam Newton is just beginning a career that looks like it's going to be very bright.

Scrambling is just another weapon in a QB's arsenal.  It's not a negative.  It can only help a quarterback.  What can be a negative is if the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball.  After all, throwing the ball is a prerequisite for the position.  But scrambling makes the QB more versatile, and gives the defense more things to worry about. 

What do you think would have happened if Dan Marino or Peyton Manning were able to run like Michael Vick? 

quote:


How long do you think Tebow can survive in the PRO game taking the beating he is taking?


Ben Roethlisberger has taken 309 career sacks, and he's still going strong.  Tebow would have to play for a very long time to catch up to Roethlisberger.

Scrambling is not the same as the QB option. In an option offence the play is designed from the start to allow the QB to either keep it himself, hand off to a RB or throw downfield. In the spread variant there is usually no RB available so it is always either a QB keep or a pass. You would expect the QB to run with the ball a significant number of times per game in this offence and the QB will get tackled many times each game.

A QB scrambles if a pass play fails to produce an open receiver and the QB sees a hole that makes running for a gain or buys time to make a pass possible. This sort of occurence happens maybe 10 times in a game and even then the QB usually tries to avoid getting tackled.

The option is viable in college where the quality of the players is so variable. In the pros it is simply a way to let LB's tackle the QB a bunch which is unwise for a number of reasons.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 1:36:08 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I already explained why the QB option doesn't work in the pros.


If the Broncos had not gone 7-1 to date, your argument would hold much better.


Of those 7 wins none came against a team with more 8 wins on the season and 3 came against 3 of the worst teams in the league (Chiefs, Dolphins and Vikings). and Chicago was basically playing without their entire offence.

Denver will likely be crushed by NE this week and will not advance beyond the first game of the playoffs. If the Broncos stick with a QB option offence next season they will not have a winning record.

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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 2:05:27 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


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Status: offline 		You're viewing from an incredibly narrow scope and your idea of the spread option doesn't seem to have Denver's variant in mind.

Denver almost always has a running back in the backfield with Tebow.

Have you even been watching the games?


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RE: TEBOW! - 12/13/2011 2:20:16 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Now you are just spewing bullshit Raptor....all spread options employ running backs in the backfield.Hence the word "option",let me clear this up for you the option is to pitch it to that runningback or to keep it.
See the "option" yet?
Roch sub,yes my post should not have included the word "scrambling" ,it would have been more accurate of me to ask ...how many option qb's have won pro championships and leave it at that.....though when one mentions "scramblers" that have won championships it should be noted that all that have done so first had to learn to scramble as a means of extending plays,in other words to still throw the ball downfiels as opposed to tucking it and running.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to TheRaptorJesus)
Profile   Post #: 100
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