RE: Loyalty

RE: Loyalty (Full Version)

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LillyBoPeep -> RE: Loyalty (12/8/2011 4:41:29 PM)
No worries RL, it is hard to predict behavior, especially in high stress situations like that. And I agree that "developed" is probably a better word than "earned." It's less about proving and more about helping something grow.

littlewonder -> RE: Loyalty (12/8/2011 5:14:46 PM)
as for the view of medical stuff. I give Master medical advice on what I think he should do but then after that it's his decision on what to do. I don't ever tell him what to do. I look at him as an adult and he's able to make his own decisions on what to do. Yup there are times when he's stubborn lol but I can't force him to do anything.

DesFIP -> RE: Loyalty (12/8/2011 5:47:11 PM)
We didn't earn each others love, respect, loyalty, etc. We merited receiving it by virtue of who we are. Have I ever disobeyed a direct order because I knew it was going to cause a problem if I obeyed? Sure. Just this week he was complaining of symptoms that I knew meant his blood sugar had dropped too far even though he kept saying that couldn't be it.. I went off and got him a power bar and opened it and then shoved it at him. But he can't think straight in a situation like that so I'm supposed to disobey in order to take care of him. And yeah, 20 minutes later when he wasn't shaky and jittery, he was grateful I didn't listen. But I can't imagine a situation so dangerous that he shouldn't get out too. House on fire, all of us have to leave. Some of those hypothetical situations they like to natter about in O/p just leave me cold. They aren't sensible or realistic.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Loyalty (12/8/2011 6:05:24 PM)
And for some it is, there's no one way not way. It's all up to those doing it to define" what it is about "for them quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Some think its only about the sex.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Loyalty (12/8/2011 8:39:59 PM)
My Sis asked Hubby, "Why are you lying on the floor?" "Oh, just resting, It's cooler down here." Sis said, "I'm calling 911." Hubby said, 'No, don't, I'm fine." In an hour he was fifty miles away and had a stent in his heart. This is total vanilla, but satisfyingly dramatic. Loyalty trumps obedience fair easily in moments of need. Need loyalty be earned? Being a significant other has to be earned, and there are some things I wouldn't do for just anyone. There are other things I would. Which one is up? How much is my help needed, really? This is an instant judgment made based on what we can see of the situation at the moment of stress. Example. Swimmer puts hand up. I can't swim. But I can send someone who can. So I did. Had there been no one, it would be me, and that might not have worked out so well. So what would I have done? I think I'd have gone for it and trust to luck, but that is thinking about it here, now, warm and dry. What would I have done with the fear in front of me? I didn't know Kareen at the time. But the rules say the guy goes to the rescue. Where would my loyalty and obedience take me? Hmm... Maybe I haven't really addressed the question. Lily?

Arienos -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 3:02:36 AM)
quote: I'm a super loyal person, so if that person has become Capital Such-n-Such to me, then he's got my loyalty, end of story. LOYAL: My workout partner is a female, a lesbian, stunningly beautiful and feminine; we both ride Choppers and recently were in a biker bar. An argument started, I ask, no, I told her to get her ass out of there, she left but came back in carrying her side arm and handed me mine.(It was in my saddlebags) She said if you are going to morgue or jail, I will be lying on a slab or setting in the cell with you. Now in my opinion you cannot get much more loyal then that. By the way, she is also my secretary and has been for over 15 years...and, her life mate is a close friend of mine.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 5:42:07 AM)
Nah, you're making sese, FF, nno worries there. I agree with you. If your sister had just "obeyed" her husband, he might be much worse off, or dead. You know, in my own life, when the Fella had the accident that killed him, loyalty wanted me to jump in after him and try to save him, though I was definitely not a good swimmer or strong enough to fight the river. Predicting what you'll do in situations like that is kind of impossible.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 6:45:25 AM)
Des (I missed your post earlier) - I agree that sometimes topics in that group are a little unrealistic. I still like to read it and see what I agree or disagree with, but I don't post much, all things considered. Your example is a good one too - if he's out of his frame of mind, do you just let him hang there in interest of being a fully-obedient slavier-than-thou? :p of course not. Your example, and FF's, show that sometimes you have to act out of bounds. Real life has a way of causing that.

lizi -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 9:42:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fornica Agree with the others. I wouldn't submit (or Domme) to someone I wasn't in a relationship with. I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone I wasn't loyal to. It's a circle. And part of being loyal, is standing by your Partner, and, like, Steven said, representing them well. Sort of an offside, but, this is something I hold true in my life in a few different ways..I was married for more than 10 years, and I never spoke poorly of my husband (in front of him or behind) to others..it's just distasteful to me. We get a lot of notes on facebook from people noticing even how we interact with each other and our mutual kids on there (things like wow, I can't believe you two joke around, praise each other, etc). I think it's in part the way I was raised..we were told the way we behave is how we present ourselves, and our family. It's something I hold true, and make a pretty big priority in my life. Sorry for the ramble. Actually Fornica I think your example is a good addition to the topic. Just because the two of you aren't a couple anymore doesn't mean you don't respect him and his place in your life and the life of your children and then you show that respect in tangible ways. I have exactly the same kind of relationship with my own ex. When I was looking for a current partner I had some men that were wary of my loyalty to the ex and questioned it, that was fine and it was their prerogative, but it meant they weren't right for me because I'm not giving up the ex.

tazzygirl -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 10:51:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom And for some it is, there's no one way not way. It's all up to those doing it to define" what it is about "for them quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Some think its only about the sex. I didnt say it wasnt. Some think its only about sex. And that is perfectly fine if you are with someone who has only that expectation. For others, its not only about sex. The expectation changes.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 11:16:06 AM)
quote: Do you believe your "captial letter person" has to earn your loyalty, or does s/he have it by virtue of being who s/he are in your relationship? She wouldn't be my "capital letter person" if I wasn't going to be loyal to her. quote: Do you believe loyalty is even necessary? Why or why not? Yes, of course its required, it comes with being in love. quote: Have you ever had an experience that put loyalty and obedience in conflict? Say a situation where you were told to do one thing, but your sense of loyalty caused you to disobey and remain? I completely don't understand your example, and I can't think of a situation where loyalty and obedience could conflict. Part of being loyal to her is to obey. That's our arrangement, so by obeying I am being loyal.

Fornica -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 11:20:52 AM)
Exactly quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather I completely don't understand your example, and I can't think of a situation where loyalty and obedience could conflict. Part of being loyal to her is to obey. That's our arrangement, so by obeying I am being loyal

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 11:22:26 AM)
quote: Well one of the chicks who posted there mentioned an incident where her O had told her to leave (I assume it was a dangerous situation) and she chose to disobey and stay because she didn't want him to face "whatever it was" alone. Oh! OK, yes I understand now. That is a tough one. I really don't know what I'd do, I'd want to do both, for different reasons. I guess it depends on the situation and if my presence would be a hindrance or not.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 11:23:13 AM)
Have you read any of the examples that have been provided?

LafayetteLady -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 9:47:42 PM)
But do you believe your staying or going is a matter of "loyalty" or "obedience?" I see it definately as an issue of whether or not to obey, but really nothing to do with loyalty. Obedience is easy to define. I say, you do. I say, you don't do, you disobeyed. Even when there are valid reasons like DesFIP's (although a simple blood sugar test definitively shows if low blood sugar is the case), there isn't a question whether or not she obeyed, she readily admits she didn't and with good reason. I think the example is the same thing. While it is a bit ambiguous, it is a decision (hopefully made using some common sense) of whether to obey or not. To be loyal to someone is to be "unswerving in allegience" to them. Leaving doesn't negate that. Neither does staying.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Loyalty (12/9/2011 9:53:12 PM)
But do you believe your staying or going is a matter of "loyalty" or "obedience?" I see it definately as an issue of whether or not to obey, but really nothing to do with loyalty. Obedience is easy to define. I say, you do. I say, you don't do, you disobeyed. Even when there are valid reasons like DesFIP's (although a simple blood sugar test definitively shows if low blood sugar is the case), there isn't a question whether or not she obeyed, she readily admits she didn't and with good reason. I think the example is the same thing. While it is a bit ambiguous, it is a decision (hopefully made using some common sense) of whether to obey or not. To be loyal to someone is to be "unswerving in allegience" to them. Leaving doesn't negate that. Neither does staying.

fragilepieces -> RE: Loyalty (12/10/2011 5:01:19 AM)
quote: Another woman (one date only) grabbed my crotch when we were in line. Nobody saw it, but she still got dumped heatedly as soon as we were not in public. Steven you dumped her because she was so hot for you she could not wait to get out of the store? [:)]

LafayetteLady -> RE: Loyalty (12/10/2011 10:01:37 AM)
Oops. Just woke up and saw that my post posted twice. Not sure why. Perhaps a mod can remove one.

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