to the progressives, to make much of time

to the progressives, to make much of time (Full Version)

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BoxwineForBrunch -> to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 4:59:31 AM)
occupy and proselytize while ye may/old time is still a-flying.... as i have mentioned, back in the bush v kerry poodlefight i got suckered in by the democrats' "anybody but the big scary monster" strategy and gave the largest individual donation allowable to kerry in the general election. naturally when obama and mccain were oozing toward bethlehem i was a hard target for plaintive pleas from the democratic party to dig deep and pony up for hope and change. i declined, not because i thought there was "no difference" between obama and mccain, but because i think the democrats have moved so far to the right and are so beholden to corporate interests that "hey at least we're not as bad as the republicans" is no longer an acceptable reason to vote for them. the occupy movement seems to have spooked the democrats, since they have already begun doing mailings and running spots under the guise of a "progressive" political action committee ridiculing the notion that some people think "both parties are the same" (when the republicans are actually big scary monsters!) and essentially saying "you have to give us just one more one more election and then boy oh boy will you ever see some real hope and change!" it has now reached the point at which either the democrats need to be driven painfully and bloodily back to the left or a third party must emerge. i would like to urge anyone who honestly considers herself a liberal or a progressive to just say "no thank you" this time around to obama and the national party. if you have state and local representation you're happy with, then by all means keep giving them your support, but obama has proven to be precisely the president i expected him to be. his civil rights record is a mess, his paternalist attitude toward women's rights is appalling, he's an avowed admirer of goddamn reagan, he is arming the egyptian military even as he gushes purple platitudes about the courage of the protesters, he gives the military whatever it wants, gives the bankers whatever they want, punishes the poor when it is expedient, and even though it was chimpface who built the vast illegal detention centers for political prisoners it has been the obama administration that has made sure they were so deeply entrenched with the Way We Do Business Now that they will remain permanent fixtures. the democrats are not in a panic yet but they are scared because it is beginning to occur to them that they may lose a big chunk of progressive voters and contributors this time around. i hope they do. this is probably the first election cycle where the progressives could begin to shift the party left just by keeping their wallets closed and their votes to themselves. no matter how big and scary the monster running against obama is, liberals should consider withholding their votes.

Moonhead -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 5:07:41 AM)
The notion of a third party is an appealing one, but it isn't necessarily beneficial in practice, so I'm with you that the Democrats need to shift to the left rather than another party emerging.

BanthaSamantha -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 7:00:27 AM)
The liberals might not like the President's efforts so far, but I think he is doing just fine. He's given me some absolutely killer tax breaks.

Moonhead -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 9:02:12 AM)
I don't believe that was what he was elected for, sadly.

InvisibleBlack -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 10:16:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The notion of a third party is an appealing one, but it isn't necessarily beneficial in practice, so I'm with you that the Democrats need to shift to the left rather than another party emerging. I believe the concept is that the emergence of a new third significant political party will result in the demise of one of the two existing ones, restoring the dual-party system, only once again with actual differences between the two parties.

tazzygirl -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 10:26:49 AM)
quote: his paternalist attitude toward women's rights is appalling Seen this before. bullshit.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 10:31:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha The liberals might not like the President's efforts so far, but I think he is doing just fine. He's given me some absolutely killer tax breaks. ORLY. Exactly what breaks are those?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 10:33:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The notion of a third party is an appealing one, but it isn't necessarily beneficial in practice, so I'm with you that the Democrats need to shift to the left rather than another party emerging. I believe the concept is that the emergence of a new third significant political party will result in the demise of one of the two existing ones, restoring the dual-party system, only once again with actual differences between the two parties. If by demise you mean co-opting one of the existing ones and changing incrementally, that is feasible, and what the Tea Party has attempted to do. If you mean demise of one party to be replaced by another in one swell foop [sic], cant happen.

Moonhead -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 11:27:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead The notion of a third party is an appealing one, but it isn't necessarily beneficial in practice, so I'm with you that the Democrats need to shift to the left rather than another party emerging. I believe the concept is that the emergence of a new third significant political party will result in the demise of one of the two existing ones, restoring the dual-party system, only once again with actual differences between the two parties. That isn't what happened over here, sadly. Even before the desticled twat Clegg got Cameron into office, the Alliance 9as they were then) spent the '80s splitting the dissenting vote enough to get Thatcher re-elected twice.

BanthaSamantha -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 6:48:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha The liberals might not like the President's efforts so far, but I think he is doing just fine. He's given me some absolutely killer tax breaks. ORLY. Exactly what breaks are those? I got the Making Work Pay Credit and a boost to my paycheck from the payroll tax cut. I also got a very sizable check for purchasing my first home, something I would not have considered doing without that credit.

Termyn8or -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 10:40:28 PM)
That help was not for you, it was for those who make money when houses are sold. You are just a tool in growing the next bubble which will have the net effect of making certain people richer. This is the way things are done. Political parties are all the same because the people who run the game are all the same. What we need is a new party. As opposed to a "third" party, get one with leadership that has never been in politics, or better yet how about someone who as actually worked a fucking day in their life. T^T

Hippiekinkster -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/10/2011 11:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha The liberals might not like the President's efforts so far, but I think he is doing just fine. He's given me some absolutely killer tax breaks. I'm not a "liberal"; I'm a Progressive. In European parlance, I'm a Social Democrat. There's a difference.

Termyn8or -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/11/2011 1:34:08 AM)
Actually you're a wacko. :-) T^T

BanthaSamantha -> RE: to the progressives, to make much of time (12/11/2011 3:31:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or That help was not for you, it was for those who make money when houses are sold. You are just a tool in growing the next bubble which will have the net effect of making certain people richer. This is the way things are done. Yeah, people like me. Not only did I get an extra large refund at the end of the year, I also have a house that is gaining in value, and incomming rent that exceeds my home's expenses by 180%.

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