Gas customers rage about pump prices

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knees2you -> Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 6:10:26 PM)
quote: LOS ANGELES - Tempers are rising along with gas prices. Gas stations across the country report that drivers are taking out their gas rage against big oil by yelling at clerks and cashiers and sometimes driving off without paying http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060529/ap_on_re_us/gas_rage I told everybody this was coming! Ant,[;)]

pahunkboy -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 6:45:57 PM)
what is the solution? Tax breaks for big oil. No new refinery capacity. And Iraq. Or Solar and windpower could have flourished. Solar was pronounced dead. I seen where some farmers could not get a legal permit to put up a wind turbine. I seen where some are solar- in hiding- cause- it powers back to the grid and no permit. One of the EU countries national goal is to be free from oil- totally. Actually my friend, you aint seen anything yet. As compared to what we are in for. 5-10 years. Lock and load.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 6:57:07 PM)
Which EU country? Yours, benji

leakylee -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 8:06:41 PM)
PA is supposed to be considering a temporary suspension of the state tax on gas to help bring the prices down. If I remember the report right, it was something like $.26. It isn't much, but it would help a bit. love and light lee

UtopianRanger -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 10:21:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you quote: LOS ANGELES - Tempers are rising along with gas prices. Gas stations across the country report that drivers are taking out their gas rage against big oil by yelling at clerks and cashiers and sometimes driving off without paying http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060529/ap_on_re_us/gas_rage I told everybody this was coming! Ant,[;)] Actually, I still think this type of behavior is very mild compared to what should be happening. Boy would I love to see MILLIONS of people come out of their homes and march on Pennsylvania Avenue. - R

knees2you -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 11:10:56 PM)
quote: Actually, I still think this type of behavior is very mild compared to what should be happening. Boy would I love to see MILLIONS of people come out of their homes and march on Pennsylvania Avenue. - R OH Yeash Baby! That would be Real Nice![:D] Ant,[;)]

Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 11:18:15 PM)
Suppliers are just going to raise their prices to compensate. Suspending the gas taxes, temporarily or permanently, is not a solution to this problem. quote: ORIGINAL: leakylee PA is supposed to be considering a temporary suspension of the state tax on gas to help bring the prices down. If I remember the report right, it was something like $.26. It isn't much, but it would help a bit.

knees2you -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 11:31:23 PM)
Then what is~??[&:] I ask[:D] Ant,[;)]

Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/29/2006 11:32:43 PM)
Pahunkboy had some good ideas up there.

QuietDragon -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/30/2006 3:23:30 PM)
Hi everybody, Part of the report linked in the OP read as follows: Consumers might finally be getting at least a temporary break at the pump. The latest figures released May 21 by the Lundberg Survey indicate the nationwide average price of self-serve regular fell about 1.45 cents in the previous two weeks to $2.93 a gallon — the first dip since the Feb. 24 price of $2.24 began to climb. A bit of rough arithmatic, based on the following presumptions and figures: 1. an American gallon is 8 US pints of 16 fluid ounces? (If that is the case, a US pint is 0.473 of a litre.) 2. £1.00 = $1.88416, or $1 = £0.530741 (mid-market rate for 30 May 2006 at 21:17) 3. In the UK, I pay £0.96 a litre for diesel (although if I drove a petrol/gasoline car would pay £0.94/l). Just to give people on both sides of the Atlantic a comparison, imaging two drivers, Adam in the UK and Bob in the US: UK buyer US buyer Ex rate $1.88 £0.53 Litre in £ £0.96 £0.41 Litre in $ $1.81 $0.77 US gallon in £ £3.63 £1.56 US gallon in $ $6.84 $2.93 US gallon = 3.784 UK litres UK litre = 0.264 US gallons Assuming the above is correct (fingers crossed)... This little comparison table indicates the comparative differences between domestic vehicle fuel prices in the US and UK. Adam in England pays £0.96 per litre, the equivalent of paying $6.84 per US gallon, 134% more than is friend Bob. Bob in the US pays $2.93 for his gallon of gas, only 43% of the price paid by his friend Adam in England for the same quantity of fuel. If Bob feels agrieved, what do you thing Adam feels like? But the real point of my post, ways around the oil problem: 1. New generation cars that run on sustainable bio-substitutes for petrolium products. These include biodiesel (see www.greenfuels.co.uk/biodiesel), MVO (modified vegetable oil), "straight" vehetable oil (SVO), various methyl esters of vegetable, nut and seed oils (particularly rapeseed, soybean, hemp oil and sunflower), methanol (wood alcohol) and ethanol ("grain" alcohol) (see www.energyquest.ca.gov/transportation/alcohols). 2. Tax incentives to engine manufacturers to invest in R&D to design flexible fuel veihicles that do not rely on fossil fuel sources. 3. Tax disincentives to own gas guzzling vehicles, both at the point-of-purchase of the vehicle, and on the fossil fuel at point-of-purchase. 4. Tax incentives to own bio-substitute fuel vehicles, both at the point-of-purchase of the vehicle, and on the bio-substuitute fuel at point-of-purchase. 5. Improvement in public transport infrastructure in both urban and rural areas. 6. Conversion of "burning" power stations to use biofuels, conserving dwindling fossil fuel stocks. 7. Alternative sources of power to be utilised wherever possible, including tidefarming, windfarming, and solarfarming. gooddogbenji asked which EU country was attempting to stop using oil completely. I don't know if it is a genuine goal or just a pipedream goal, but Sweden is a significant force for green energy development in the EU. More can be read on the excellent Swedish government's English language site at www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/5745/a/21787;jsessionid=aPJZgWLtUQ44 All of this said, once somebody develops nuclear fusion, we shouldn't have any more problems.

UtopianRanger -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/30/2006 6:44:10 PM)
. quote: Bob in the US pays $2.93 for his gallon of gas, only 43% of the price paid by his friend Adam in England for the same quantity of fuel. If Bob feels agrieved, what do you thing Adam feels like? But the real point of my post, ways around the oil problem: 1. New generation cars that run on sustainable bio-substitutes for petrolium products. These include biodiesel (see www.greenfuels.co.uk/biodiesel), MVO (modified vegetable oil), "straight" vehetable oil (SVO), various methyl esters of vegetable, nut and seed oils (particularly rapeseed, soybean, hemp oil and sunflower), methanol (wood alcohol) and ethanol ("grain" alcohol) (see www.energyquest.ca.gov/transportation/alcohols). 2. Tax incentives to engine manufacturers to invest in R&D to design flexible fuel veihicles that do not rely on fossil fuel sources. 3. Tax disincentives to own gas guzzling vehicles, both at the point-of-purchase of the vehicle, and on the fossil fuel at point-of-purchase. 4. Tax incentives to own bio-substitute fuel vehicles, both at the point-of-purchase of the vehicle, and on the bio-substuitute fuel at point-of-purchase. 5. Improvement in public transport infrastructure in both urban and rural areas. 6. Conversion of "burning" power stations to use biofuels, conserving dwindling fossil fuel stocks. 7. Alternative sources of power to be utilised wherever possible, including tidefarming, windfarming, and solarfarming. gooddogbenji asked which EU country was attempting to stop using oil completely. I don't know if it is a genuine goal or just a pipedream goal, but Sweden is a significant force for green energy development in the EU. More can be read on the excellent Swedish government's English language site at www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/5745/a/21787;jsessionid=aPJZgWLtUQ44 All of this said, once somebody develops nuclear fusion, we shouldn't have any more problems. Nice post Dragon. The only part I disagree with is the erroneous comparison you have made regards Bob & Adam. I've seen American's parrot the same comparison after they've spent and hour watching the Fox news channel. From my perspective, its canned propaganda designed to make Americans feel better about paying three bucks for a gallon of gas. The erroneous part of the comparison is in the fact that the UK works off a value-added tax system. All of its social programs are paid for through the taxation of goods and services, where as America has an income tax system that essentially taxes production. Now we do have some state and federal taxes on gasoline -- that are supposed to go for the roads -- but percentage wise, compared to the UK is minuscule. I've posted this before, but will do it again and again when I see a comparison of this nature made that relieves tension from those paying three-bucks a gallon - The tension need to stay on. - R

TolerableCruelty -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/30/2006 7:03:16 PM)
I have no solution... I just wish they'd come up with something.. because of the job market here in My city, I'm forced to drive 90 miles round trip everyday for work. Now, before you say.. "why not move to where you work".... I would, except the crime rate there is significantly higher... its a catch-22 for Me. even though, in the short term it won't help the overall problem, Illinois has also shown interest in absolving the gasoline taxes on a temporary basis.. it would at least help My wallet out a small bit, for a little while. T.R.

Wolf1020 -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/30/2006 7:29:44 PM)
the best solution is to begin turning ourselves over to hydrogen. One of the main reasons the technology is so expensive is because it is so little used. Look at computers and how relatively inexpensive they are getting. Top of the line ones are still expensive but you can walk into Wal mart and got a passable one that will do the job for just a few hundred bucks. You couldn't do that when computers first were being sold. Same with TV's and all other forms of technology. As they come into widespread use they get cheaper and better to the point that most anyone can afford a model that will get the job done and more expensive ones become extremely good. Hydrogen can be used in cars and to power your home. On top of that you can get it from water right on location. There are working models of homes they use solar power to start the reaction and from there the hydrogen powers your house. Within a few years the reactors will be efficient enough to only need an initial boost to start up and from there run themselves. Aside from hydrogen all the others have problems. Solar is good but the panels are expensive and need to be kept very clean. Also if you live in an area that can go long periods being overcast then you aren't going to have good results. Wind power is good but no wind means no power. Hydroelectric dams are good but you can only use it so close to suitable rivers and you can only build so many dams before you totally screw up the flow of rivers. Nuclear and hydrogen are our best bets. In all honesty if we weren't so uptight about using nuclear power energy would be a lot cheaper right now. And stored properly nuclear waste is quite safe.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/30/2006 9:36:18 PM)
What with Biotown, USA just up the road from here, I think I'm going to have to switch to Willie Nelson's vegetable oil fuel. I wonder if the vegetable it's made out of is marijuana? I think I'd pay extra for that. It'd have a hell of an exhaust system.

pahunkboy -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/31/2006 9:59:40 AM)
I want to say the Nethelands. The finally retialer of gas- makes 8-10 cents a gallon. As a clerk in the 90s I hear many complaints "highway robbery" for 1.35. Many stations folded when the clean water act- passed. Including the one I worked for. [tank regs] Dealers would buy up parcels at off ramps along 180- so the competing oil company could not build there. The clerk at the pump- is a low wage grunt. To make a sceen there- -well take it to the real banana that can do somehting about it. There were so many ruled to using the name we did too. It cost everytime signs had to be redone. Other countries- have alot of tax in their price. Consumers could- dispute charges over 50$ on their credit card- if everyone did this maybe the big brass would look. Follow the cash always. The system uses any excuse to explain prices. The hericanes=-[which those assets were insured my friends] The state has a piece of this too. If a new teck happened- road taxes could be uncollectable for a while. Shale oil extraction is being down in Canada... I heard we have an umlimited supply- but at todays price levels. When the CEOs went before congress with a straight face and not under oath....I was amazed=- gasp. With all the accounting tricks. And they post record profits- more then any corporation on earth- ever. I am afraid the horse is out of the barn. As long as we are titated with mindless "news" so called news... we loose. I wish I could offer more solutions. [or a solution.] The airwaves are owned by you and I. the peon. Gag me. Can you say Dubai ports deal? Stay cool folks. Turbo

Gauge -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (5/31/2006 11:21:42 AM)
quote: I told everybody this was coming! Really went out on a limb there didn't you? Gee... Americans... upset at gas prices and some are getting downright nasty about it. Hmmm... I wouldn't quit your day job and go into handicapping horse races just yet.l

QuietDragon -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (6/1/2006 3:12:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger . quote: Bob in the US pays $2.93 for his gallon of gas, only 43% of the price paid by his friend Adam in England for the same quantity of fuel. If Bob feels agrieved, what do you thing Adam feels like? Nice post Dragon. The only part I disagree with is the erroneous comparison you have made regards Bob & Adam. I've seen American's parrot the same comparison after they've spent and hour watching the Fox news channel. From my perspective, its canned propaganda designed to make Americans feel better about paying three bucks for a gallon of gas. The erroneous part of the comparison is in the fact that the UK works off a value-added tax system. All of its social programs are paid for through the taxation of goods and services, where as America has an income tax system that essentially taxes production. Now we do have some state and federal taxes on gasoline -- that are supposed to go for the roads -- but percentage wise, compared to the UK is minuscule. I've posted this before, but will do it again and again when I see a comparison of this nature made that relieves tension from those paying three-bucks a gallon - The tension need to stay on. - R Hi UtopianRanger, Thanks for the reply. I agree that my comparison made no mention of the different personal tax structures of the UK and the US, and indeed you are correct that we in the UK get taxed both personally (known as PAYE - pay as you earn) and at the point-of-purchase (known as VAT - value added tax, which for most goods is 17.5%, although for essential goods is either 5% or 0% - the UK VAT regulations are astonishingly complicated, and the distinction between goods at 0%, 5% and 17.5% can sometimes be as little as their size (clothing and footwear), whether or not they are hot or cold (take-away food), whether they are in the furtherance of energy efficiency (5% as opposed to 17.7%), and specific categories of goods such as women's sanitary products (5%), and children's safety seats (5%). An additional issue with the purchasing of vehicle fuel is that there is a secondary tax - fuel duty - which is currently approximately £0.47 per litre, basically 50% of the price of the fuel, imposed on purchases. It is this, more than anything else, which inflates the price of vehicle fuel in the UK. This fuel duty is also due on biofuels and vegetable oils the moment you make their use for running and engine rather than cooking French fries and doughnuts. (In Germany, however, state legislation exempts biofuels from fuel duty, immediately making it a significantly less costly alternative to using petrolium-based fuels in vehicles.) Anyway, I disagree that the comparison was "erroneous". The comparison was, given my initial assumptions on liquid measures and exchange rate, entirely accurate. But I will accept that without a mention of the different tax structures in place on purchases in the US and the UK, it would appear that the UK purchaser was paying considerably more to the garage's profits than the US purchaser, whereas the substantial bulk of the price difference is going to Central Government as fuel duty. By the way, I'm one of those "Adam" guys on the UK side of the Atlantic, paying the equivalent of $6.84 for my gas (diesel).

UtopianRanger -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (6/1/2006 3:41:44 AM)
quote: Anyway, I disagree that the comparison was "erroneous". The comparison was, given my initial assumptions on liquid measures and exchange rate, entirely accurate. But I will accept that without a mention of the different tax structures in place on purchases in the US and the UK, it would appear that the UK purchaser was paying considerably more to the garage's profits than the US purchaser, whereas the substantial bulk of the price difference is going to Central Government as fuel duty. By the way, I'm one of those "Adam" guys on the UK side of the Atlantic, paying the equivalent of $6.84 for my gas (diesel). Another good post by you. You have articulated this well - Most Americans are unfamiliar with these facts - My point. I also forgot to mention that our brothers, sisters and friends through out the EU/UK are also taken' it in the shorts, over and above the incredible amount of taxes they already pay – No one should get bent over like this. - R

Kedikat -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (6/1/2006 3:51:26 AM)
I have been to Austria, Indonesia, Uganda, Brasil, in the last few years for work. They are all more efficient than North America. The cars, the lighting, appliances, transport of people and freight. And the gasoline costs are higher. Mostly due to taxes. Higher energy costs are a dose of reality. To make you seek better ways to save energy. And demand better use of it from your government and business. Using tax money to offset the costs is the most inefficient way to eventually use energy efficiently. You end up paying for the energy, and paying again in taxes to make it cheaper at the pump or utility bill, but filtering it through the government back to yourself. A loss for sure in the government filter. A rebate on energy costs is the most expensive way. Real cost, with added taxes that go to mass transit and programs for efficiency ( real efficiency ) regulations and enforcement make the best returns. People buy efficient items to save money. Government builds efficient systems to save energy. Business makes efficient things to sell to an eager marketplace and meet regulations. It's amazing how many conservatives ( Dems for same and other reasons ), see a welfare sort of rebate on the taxpayers back as good. The market, people and government would adjust to real high energy costs, if vote buying was left out of it. By the way. I work in the oil biz. Nice bonuses lately.

pahunkboy -> RE: Gas customers rage about pump prices (6/1/2006 7:58:22 AM)
now THERE is a nightmare. The value added tax. I hope it never washes ashore here.

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