RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial

RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:09:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Just because "it happens all the time" doesn't make it right. Yes, I can see somebody who habitually speeds or gets in auto accidents being required to go some kind of driver safety class--on their own dime, as it protects life. But those drivers should also be paying fines, etc, not doing classes instead of. But this offer of no prosecution if the arrested protesters will subject themselves, at their own expense, to reeducation, smacks of nothing more than the DA's office being afraid they won't get convictions. At least with conviction, some money will come to LA county in the form of court costs and fines. Misdemeanor charges seldom result in jail time. As i said in a previous post, *what people pay is mostly fines* and a small amount for the class** so you are wrong about them not paying fines. They pay both. DAs arent afraid of not getting convictions, they just look at the balance sheet and it saves taxpayers court time, legal costs, etc if they offer classes for first time offenders.. They sure as fuck dont offer it to repeat offenders.. There are also some weird laws that seem relatively minor but they are felony charges and so serious shit.. I dont know what kinds of charges the protests are facing, a variety i would guess, some might be felonies like in OWS in Houston..

Hillwilliam -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:10:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Not if the lawyers own the schools. A few sweetheart deals with a judge or two would make it a lot more profitable than courtroom time. I'm not saying that diversion for first time offenders isn't an excellent idea but this smacks of "Reeducation Camps" that are so popular in totalitarian countries. Hopefully the ones that take the class will learn what they can do and cant do when they protest the next time and they will be more careful to avoid being arrested.. They can use it to their advantage if they want to, some will, some wont.. I have news for you. If the police want to arrest a given person, they can ALWAYS come up with a reason. There is no such thing as what you can or can't do to keep from being arrested short of never going out. Even then, there is no guarantee. This so called 'class' is a moneymaker for the attorneys.

Hillwilliam -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:18:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 They pay both. DAs arent afraid of not getting convictions, they just look at the balance sheet and it saves taxpayers court time, legal costs, That is incorrect. Assistant DAs (the DA is primarily an administrator but he will jump in and take a high profile case for the publicity come election time) are rated, promoted and/or retained primarily based on their conviction rate. They don't give a rat's ass about taxpayers money, court time or legal costs. All they care about is getting some type of conviction. For them, getting a guilty plea in exchange for pretrial diversion counts as a conviction. On the other hand, I have seen a DA ask for extension after extension from the judge and keep offering deal after deal to the defendant on a totally hopeless case knowing that the defendant would finally wear down and plead guilty to something minor in exchange for a small fine just so he didn't have to miss more days of work. A good friend of mine that I grew up with is an assistant DA for about the last 25 years and the attorney I use for personal stuff was DA for about 10 years. Fun stories they tell.

Termyn8or -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:28:51 PM)
"But prosecuting the remaining protesters arrested on lesser charges would unduly burden the city attorney's office, said Trutanich's chief legal advisor, Curt Livesay. The office has seen its budget cut 25% in recent years." Notice that part ? Well if they have any balls they will not take the class. What's more they should refuse to pay any fines and FORCE the motherfuckers to put them in jail. No copping a plea no nothing, not guilty, get ready for a trial. Watch them offer to drop it to littering, no fine no nothing, and again the defendant should say no. See if everybody does that then what the fuck do they do ? This is the power of solidarity folks, will it appear here ? I don't have alot of confidence in people really. But none of this shit is a felony and none of it involves theft or any points on your driver's license, or actually anything. It doesn't fuck you up getting a job at a bank or driving or anything. It means shit. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:34:51 PM)
I was thinking the same thing, T. But, if they dont stand together, it wont work. If they are willing to get arrested for their beliefs, they should follow it all the way through.

tj444 -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:39:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I have news for you. If the police want to arrest a given person, they can ALWAYS come up with a reason. There is no such thing as what you can or can't do to keep from being arrested short of never going out. Even then, there is no guarantee. This so called 'class' is a moneymaker for the attorneys. That is not news to me, Hilly, imo the US is a police state and CA is the police state of police states.. Yes they can arrest someone for pretty much anything, which is why i agree with take a fucking class, pay a fine and keep your record clean.. There are friggin cops all over SoCal just looking to justify their job and make their quota.. but its them that are writing the tickets (cuz the coffers are empty), not the lawyers.. lawyers are gonna make money regardless and they would make more money defending each person at trial rather than doing a class lumped together of 20 or 30 of those same people..

Termyn8or -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:46:36 PM)
quote: But, if they dont stand together, it wont work. My point exactly, will they ? Some may be afraid of what it might look like to a prospective employer. In some cases they may be protesting against those who they would aspire to work for. "Lessee here, you were arrested in NYC in 2011 for failure to disperse and now you want a job at <insert name of big bank>" We will see how much backbone they have. T^T

tj444 -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 1:50:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 They pay both. DAs arent afraid of not getting convictions, they just look at the balance sheet and it saves taxpayers court time, legal costs, That is incorrect. Assistant DAs (the DA is primarily an administrator but he will jump in and take a high profile case for the publicity come election time) are rated, promoted and/or retained primarily based on their conviction rate. They don't give a rat's ass about taxpayers money, court time or legal costs. All they care about is getting some type of conviction. For them, getting a guilty plea in exchange for pretrial diversion counts as a conviction. On the other hand, I have seen a DA ask for extension after extension from the judge and keep offering deal after deal to the defendant on a totally hopeless case knowing that the defendant would finally wear down and plead guilty to something minor in exchange for a small fine just so he didn't have to miss more days of work. A good friend of mine that I grew up with is an assistant DA for about the last 25 years and the attorney I use for personal stuff was DA for about 10 years. Fun stories they tell. then maybe the DAs that did that shouldnt have been DAs in the first place.. In Canada the Sherrif, DAs, etc arent elected so they dont need to play those kinds of games.. I dont understand why they are elected in the US but that seems to be the way Americans want it.. [8\|] Actually, in SoCal, if you take the class it is supposed to nullify your guilty plea, you appear before the judge with proof you completed the class and he dismisses the charges.. at least the cases i have seen..

Hillwilliam -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 6:51:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 They pay both. DAs arent afraid of not getting convictions, they just look at the balance sheet and it saves taxpayers court time, legal costs, That is incorrect. Assistant DAs (the DA is primarily an administrator but he will jump in and take a high profile case for the publicity come election time) are rated, promoted and/or retained primarily based on their conviction rate. They don't give a rat's ass about taxpayers money, court time or legal costs. All they care about is getting some type of conviction. For them, getting a guilty plea in exchange for pretrial diversion counts as a conviction. On the other hand, I have seen a DA ask for extension after extension from the judge and keep offering deal after deal to the defendant on a totally hopeless case knowing that the defendant would finally wear down and plead guilty to something minor in exchange for a small fine just so he didn't have to miss more days of work. A good friend of mine that I grew up with is an assistant DA for about the last 25 years and the attorney I use for personal stuff was DA for about 10 years. Fun stories they tell. then maybe the DAs that did that shouldnt have been DAs in the first place.. In Canada the Sherrif, DAs, etc arent elected so they dont need to play those kinds of games.. I dont understand why they are elected in the US but that seems to be the way Americans want it.. [8\|] Actually, in SoCal, if you take the class it is supposed to nullify your guilty plea, you appear before the judge with proof you completed the class and he dismisses the charges.. at least the cases i have seen.. Unfortunately, everywhere I have lived in the US (I don't claim everywhere) the DA and sheriff is elected. It doesn't matter if you take a class that expunges your record, the DA (or assistant) that arranged it gets credit for a conviction. It sucks but it is what it is. A system with "schools" set up by attorneys or relatives of judges or both is rife for abuse.

Arpig -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 7:16:15 PM)
quote: You forgot to take your anti-hyperbole pills this morning. And luckily for you and your corporate backers, you didn't forget to take your anti-reality pill.

erieangel -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/23/2011 8:36:28 PM)
Actually, tj, that is assumption. The source I referenced said the class costs $355.

imperatrixx -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/24/2011 5:38:13 AM)
FR It seems to me that the idea of being able to avoid a conviction record based on whether you have money to spare on a class is the sort of thing OWS is protesting against. I had a misdemeanor conviction as a young adult and part of my plea was that if I didn't get arrested again for a year it was gone...hopefully they can get the same without having to buy it

Moonhead -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/24/2011 5:44:22 AM)
Isn't charging people to attend a class rather than trying them one of those cruel and unusual punishment things the constitution is down on?

MrRodgers -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/24/2011 10:20:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr This is very scary, indeed. This judge had better hope that no one that works for him every worked for this company and vice-versa. This smacks of the potential for payola. Whether there's any actual wrong doing or not, I don't like this idea. I mean, it's a stretch, obviously, but didn't Hitler force people to join the Nazi party by threat of jail? Can you imagine: "Okay. You've been ticketed for spedding twenty miles an hour over the speed limit. Just donate $250 to the Catholic church and we'll forget the whole thing"? I'm being a bit extreme to make a point but forget who got arrested and for what; does this scare anyone besides me? The potential; for bastardization of how many of our core ideals is very real, here. Watching is Brother Big. Peace and comfort, Michael Well, soon it will be too late to do anything about this. It didn't take long at all for those who opposed the Bush govt., Nazi-like...to be called a traitor. America is on its way to fascism. Etymologically, the natural instinct of the capitalist. Clearly people, 'we the people' do NOT have a right to to peaceably assemble for a redress of our grievances. An indication, the constitution does protect you with $million of free-speech [sic] down on K St.

Moonhead -> RE: OWS protesters in LA offered reeducation rather than trial (12/24/2011 10:31:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers America is on its way to fascism. Etymologically, the natural instinct of the capitalist. Clearly people, 'we the people' do NOT have a right to to peaceably assemble for a redress of our grievances. You certainly don't have a right to a trial, it seems.

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