RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old

RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:16:07 PM)
quote: you have the right no matter how unfair Fair is a place where pigs win ribbons... and has little place in a court room.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:31:12 PM)
You're funny, Tazzy. "Fair" has no place in a court room? Seriously? That has got to be one of the most incongruous statements I have ever seen. Justice has always been the charge of our courts since their inception. "Fair" is the very definition of "just". quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Fair is a place where pigs win ribbons... and has little place in a court room. American Heritage Dictionary - just For those that don't want to click the link: quote: ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary - Just just1 ADJECTIVE: 1. Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler. See Synonyms at fair. 2. Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause. 3. Properly due or merited: just deserts. 4. Law Valid within the law; lawful: just claims. 5. Suitable or proper in nature; fitting: a just touch of solemnity. 6. Based on fact or sound reason; well-founded: a just appraisal American Heritage Dictionary - justice quote: ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary - Justice jus·tice NOUN: 1. The quality of being just; fairness. 2. a. The principle of moral rightness; equity. b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness. 3. a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law. b. Law The administration and procedure of law. 4. Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason: The overcharged customer was angry, and with justice. 5. Abbr. J. Law a. A judge. b. A justice of the peace. Peace and comfort, Michael

tazzygirl -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:43:28 PM)
You can toss up all the links you want. I have testified in many civil trials. Comes with the OB territory. I watched a Dr lose his shirt because a twin was born brain damaged. The physician, the hospital staff did everything to try and prevent it. We did everything to convince this woman that a vaginal birth after a c-section was dangerous because the c-section was a failure to progress. We told her and her husband the risks are greater in a twin delivery... even more so as a result of not being physically able to delivery the first child vaginally. She insisted on a trial of labor. Had we insisted and attempted to cut her at that time, we would have been sued for assault. So, we did a trial of labor. OR staff was on stand by. The heart rate of one of the twins dropped, we wheeled her in. 20 minutes from decision to incision, standard of care was 30 minutes. 2 pediatricians in attendance. The first baby caught the second babies nuchal cord in the vaginal cavity. Had we been allowed to do the c-section, the probability of a healthy set of twins would have greatly increased. The physician was found negligent in not stressing enough to the parents that this was a potential outcome. He lost because the jury just could not conceive of a brain damaged baby and no one responsible. Everything by the book... and he still lost. Yup, everything in life is "fair". [8\|] If someone can be found criminally not guilty, but civilly liable... where is the "justice"? Where is the "fairness"?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:47:31 PM)
To say that the courts aren't just or fair is a factual statement. To say that fair has little place (it doesn't *belong* ) in a court room is laughable. I agree with the sentiment that it is ridiculous that people can be sued for something for which they haven't even been charged criminally. It's a loophole in our system through which one could drive a truck but with statements like yours, we can clearly see that there isn't enough interest in justice to try and make the system fair, as it was meant to be. Peace and comfort, Michael

tweakabelle -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:53:54 PM)
My understanding is the courts make determinations on the legality of issues, not on the truthfulness or fairness or justness of issues. While these concepts are often associated with the justice system, the primary task of court proceedings is to determine the legality of whatever matter is before the court.

tazzygirl -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:56:29 PM)
quote: To say that the courts aren't just or fair is a factual statement. To say that fair has little place (it doesn't belong ) in a court room is laughable. Laugh all you wish. You deal with the ideology. I deal with the reality. [;)]

DaddySatyr -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 9:57:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle My understanding is the courts make determinations on the legality of issues, not on the truthfulness or fairness or justness of issues. While these concepts are often associated with the justice system, the primary task of court proceedings is to determine the legality of whatever matter is before the court. They make determinations on legality through justice. Justice is the foundation upon which our court system was built. To be sure, somewhere along the way, the laws have become unjust but courts are supposed to hear cases and decide upon them in a fair way. To suggest otherwise is folly. Peace and comfort, Michael

tweakabelle -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/25/2011 11:14:51 PM)
quote: They make determinations on legality through justice. Justice is the foundation upon which our court system was built. To be sure, somewhere along the way, the laws have become unjust but courts are supposed to hear cases and decide upon them in a fair way. To suggest otherwise is folly. Courts make decisions based on the law of the land. The written law (legal codes) is "the foundation upon which [our] court system was built", not an undefined vague philosophical/moral concept such as "justice" or "fairness". A judicial decision will always conform to the law. After that matter has been determined, other considerations (eg fairness truth justice etc) may enter the issue for consideration. However it appears you don't intend to listen to any one on this issue. So all I can do is suggest you ask a lawyer. If the law was fair and just, Big Tobacco would have been bankrupted decades ago.

Lucylastic -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 11:50:08 AM)
supposed. is the same as fair and along with IF . Doesnt apply to many many mentally ill people.

Real0ne -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 4:42:20 PM)
spend some time in court and make sure you are in there with a claim against the gubafia, say taxes. watch how much "fair" is in the courts. go litigate the rusk case from wisconsin. there arent 2 lines in that appeals case that does not completely turn the meaning of the law on its head and creat a total abortion out of it. perfectly fits syntax terrorisn and it of course is used as precedence. Oh and had rusk won......well the city would have wound up giving up well over 2 million which now has to be well over 7 million a year. its spelled "Just-us" btw. quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr You're funny, Tazzy. "Fair" has no place in a court room? Seriously? That has got to be one of the most incongruous statements I have ever seen. Justice has always been the charge of our courts since their inception. "Fair" is the very definition of "just". quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Fair is a place where pigs win ribbons... and has little place in a court room. American Heritage Dictionary - just For those that don't want to click the link: quote: ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary - Just just1 ADJECTIVE: 1. Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler. See Synonyms at fair. 2. Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause. 3. Properly due or merited: just deserts. 4. Law Valid within the law; lawful: just claims. 5. Suitable or proper in nature; fitting: a just touch of solemnity. 6. Based on fact or sound reason; well-founded: a just appraisal American Heritage Dictionary - justice quote: ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary - Justice jus·tice NOUN: 1. The quality of being just; fairness. 2. a. The principle of moral rightness; equity. b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness. 3. a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law. b. Law The administration and procedure of law. 4. Conformity to truth, fact, or sound reason: The overcharged customer was angry, and with justice. 5. Abbr. J. Law a. A judge. b. A justice of the peace. Peace and comfort, Michael

Real0ne -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 4:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: They make determinations on legality through justice. Justice is the foundation upon which our court system was built. No it is not. Its what the king says goes! In the case of the US the sovereign which is the state which has the power of king. all 51 of the SOB's. To be sure, somewhere along the way, the laws have become unjust but courts are supposed to hear cases and decide upon them in a fair way. To suggest otherwise is folly. Its also reality, how many cases you want me to cite? I can give you emough for 1/2 of a lifetime of reading of unfair cases. Courts make decisions based on the law of the land. The written law (legal codes) is "the foundation upon which [our] court system was built", not an undefined vague philosophical/moral concept such as "justice" or "fairness". Who is our? Where you from? Russia? In any of the imperial colonies it is based on the common law with few exceptions like lousiana for instance. A judicial decision will always conform to the law. [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/being_sick-403.gif[/image] After that matter has been determined, other considerations (eg fairness truth justice etc) may enter the issue for consideration. However it appears you don't intend to listen to any one on this issue. So all I can do is suggest you ask a lawyer. If the law was fair and just, Big Tobacco would have been bankrupted decades ago. Thats boloney! Most tax cases are done by attachment through admiralty or maritime or even commercial where it applies. that is NOT law of the land any more than civil law is law of the land.

Politesub53 -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 5:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub What the heck does a picture of a violent uncooperative idiot tied to a restraint device mean anything but a way he cannot injury himself or others... that part means nothing... But if he was pepper sprayed while restrained that would be something else... That fact just comes from the media with no proof. Like I said I will wait until the trial then make an intelligent not a silly emotional judgment. Butch Silly and emotional seems to a very......Silly and emotional.........reply. Did you not read the part where an obviously "silly and emotional" medical examiner had ruled this as homicide ? Did you met see where a trainee at the jail, again "silly and emotional", swore of the guy saying he couldnt breath and pleading for the mask to be taken off ?

tweakabelle -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 7:00:25 PM)
I read a piece about a 62 year old drunk man who, according to his wife, should have been taken to hospital instead of jail I've seen no evidence that points to, or even suggests "a violent uncooperative idiot". (Though, if your intent is to really stretch the point you could, I suppose, argue that drunk = idiot) Looking at those 2 descriptions of the victim, it's pretty obvious which description is "silly and emotional".

Lucylastic -> RE: Pepper Spraying a 62-yr. old (12/26/2011 7:11:15 PM)
oh its ok to do it for the victim, he is dead surely that makes it ok no? yes thats tongue in cheek before anyone give s me a wedgie

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