How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom?

How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 7:55:00 PM)
What do doms here think about doing things that seriously damages the sub's self-esteem. I mean, of course bdsm is about verbal humiliation and lots of physical humiliation too, some may be also into public humiliation. But as with every different sub, there has to be humiliations that is enjoyable, and don't make you think badly of yourself. And there are those, which will always hit a sensitive spot. What do doms think?

xxblushesxx -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:02:24 PM)
Of course, it's not necessarily about humiliation at all. It depends on the people involved.

DesFIP -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:04:25 PM)
Not every relationship includes humiliation. I would imagine that the ones that do so aren't the ones where the sub's have self esteem issues. But the opposite. We don't do humiliation but other people who do have said that they find it improves their self esteem with the rest of the world. That having their boss dress them down for a mistake isn't nearly so devastating when they discover they can handle humiliation from a loving partner. And that's the other part of it, that the same person who humiliates you in scene is incredibly loving and supportive the rest of the time. But you don't have to accept this as part of your relationship if it doesn't work for you. Any more than you have to accept your partner being a horn dog or having to ask your friends to join you in a threesome or anything else that presumably all doms do. Because you aren't looking for a relationship with all doms, only with one. So figure out what you need and what you can't accept and find someone who feels the same way about those things as you do. Just like ordinary people do.

DarkSteven -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:06:15 PM)
Soft limit for me.

BKSir -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:14:23 PM)
Why would I ever want to humiliate my pet? What would that say about me as his master? I wouldn't want to lie to my pet, that would be stupid and undermine trust. So if I were to tell my pet he were not good enough at this or that, or that he was unable to do whatever, that would mean I accepted something less than the best. I don't accept sub-par. Certainly, if I feel there is something that my pet could do better, I would tell him and then help him to improve upon it. The second I start degrading him, he'll start thinking lower of himself and feel that he can't improve. If he truly believes that, then it's time for me to ship him out the door. That's when he is useless to me and I no longer want him around. Again, why would I ever want less than the best for myself? I think you have a lot to learn, Greta. quote: I mean, of course bdsm is about verbal humiliation and lots of physical humiliation too, some may be also into public humiliation. May be true in YOUR world, but it's absolutely NOT true in mine. If my pet is not holding his head high and proud, then I view it as a failure on my part.

Greta75 -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:17:30 PM)
BK, I don't understand what you are saying really. Humiliation is a kink. Take for example, to me, a blow job is humiliation. But for others, it may not be. But I get turn on, because it feels humiliating, and that's my kink. But take another kink, while other people may enjoy public display and enjoy the thrill of it, rather than feel a rush of humiliation of doing it, I would feel extremely humiliated to publicly display my self to strangers. And it would hurt my self-esteem.

LanceHughes -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:23:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir Why would I ever want to humiliate my pet? What would that say about me as his master? I wouldn't want to lie to my pet, that would be stupid and undermine trust. So if I were to tell my pet he were not good enough at this or that, or that he was unable to do whatever, that would mean I accepted something less than the best. I don't accept sub-par. Certainly, if I feel there is something that my pet could do better, I would tell him and then help him to improve upon it. The second I start degrading him, he'll start thinking lower of himself and feel that he can't improve. If he truly believes that, then it's time for me to ship him out the door. That's when he is useless to me and I no longer want him around. Again, why would I ever want less than the best for myself? I think you have a lot to learn, Greta. quote: I mean, of course bdsm is about verbal humiliation and lots of physical humiliation too, some may be also into public humiliation. May be true in YOUR world, but it's absolutely NOT true in mine. If my pet is not holding his head high and proud, then I view it as a failure on my part. QFT

BKSir -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:25:59 PM)
This is why I say you have a lot to learn. Yes, it is a kink. But BDSM is NOT "of course" about humiliation of any of those kinds. It CAN be for some people, in some relationships, but that is not the definition of the entire group of people who are here. That would be like me saying that for someone to be female, they HAVE to wear a dress. Or for someone to be successful, they HAVE to be able to get on an airplane. Both, I can prove to be false very easily. Certainly it is true for some, maybe even many, but it's not true for all. What you may do for humiliation is really of no concern to my relationship. So please, feel free to speak for yourself and your relationship and dynamic. But don't try to speak for mine or my pets. I would never hurt my pets self esteem willingly. If someone tells you you can't do something enough times, you start to believe it. I refuse to have a pet who believed he couldn't do anything he wished.

LanceHughes -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:31:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 BK, I don't understand what you are saying really. Humiliation is a kink. Take for example, to me, a blow job is humiliation. But for others, it may not be. But I get turn on, because it feels humiliating, and that's my kink. But take another kink, while other people may enjoy public display and enjoy the thrill of it, rather than feel a rush of humiliation of doing it, I would feel extremely humiliated to publicly display my self to strangers. And it would hurt my self-esteem. I'll try to bridge your comment Greta and BK's Greta: You speak of humiliation, but BKSir (and the OP question) are about SELF-ESTEEM which are VERY different. BKSir (and I, via QTF) are answering " How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom?" with one word: VERY! If humiliation is used to rip down / rip apart the sub's self esteem, well it's not a good (IMHO) Dom doing that. OTOH - humiliation play can be super-hot, especially if a sub has good self-esteem. Again, apples and oranges. If you want to stay on topic, please write about self-esteem. If you want to ask about humiliation, start a new thread, y'know. NOT meaning snark, even though you might hear a little in the above, t'was NOT meant.

Greta75 -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:33:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir This is why I say you have a lot to learn. Yes, it is a kink. But BDSM is NOT "of course" about humiliation of any of those kinds. It CAN be for some people, in some relationships, but that is not the definition of the entire group of people who are here. You misunderstand me. I am simply saying that Humiliation is part of BDSM. BDSM is a very big umbrella, and underneath it, contains hundreds over kinks and fetishes. And Humiliation is one of them. What I was trying to understand is those with Humiliation fetishes. Let me put it this way. If a dom kink is not to humiliate, but if a sub feels a blow job is humiliating, then would you then do away with it, if it was not your kink? How about if humiliating IS your kink, and then your sub enjoys all the humiliation you give her too much, does this mean, it becomes boring and less enjoyable because she's having fun with it. quote: That would be like me saying that for someone to be female, they HAVE to wear a dress. Or for someone to be successful, they HAVE to be able to get on an airplane. Both, I can prove to be false very easily. Certainly it is true for some, maybe even many, but it's not true for all. What you may do for humiliation is really of no concern to my relationship. So please, feel free to speak for yourself and your relationship and dynamic. But don't try to speak for mine or my pets. Is this a dom thing to blow things out of context and proportions? Like seriously, what you mention here has nothing to do with anything I have said, I see zero connection. Never have I attempt to speak on behalf of you or your pets, sheesh! quote: I would never hurt my pets self esteem willingly. That's all the answer I need, this is the answer I am looking for, that, what is YOUR OPINION, and you have confirmed that you personally would not do it. That's all I'm asking about, I'm just wondering how many doms thinks it's okay to hurt self-esteem intentionally, that's all.

BKSir -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:37:40 PM)
Easy to misunderstand, I think, when you say quote: I mean, of course bdsm is about verbal humiliation and lots of physical humiliation too, some may be also into public humiliation. . Perhaps if you would have said that it "includes verbal humiliation... etc...", there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. However with how it was worded, then you could have easily said "of course bdsm is about spanking, lots of caning too, some may also be into whipping". Do you now see where things went awry?

Greta75 -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:37:54 PM)
quote: If humiliation is used to rip down / rip apart the sub's self esteem, well it's not a good (IMHO) Dom doing that. OTOH - humiliation play can be super-hot, especially if a sub has good self-esteem. Again, apples and oranges. Humiliation play can be super hot I agree if there is mutual enjoyment, but again, thank you for answering, this was what I was asking, simply your opinions on this matter.

Greta75 -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:39:03 PM)
quote: Perhaps if you would have said that it "includes verbal humiliation... etc...", there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. However with how it was worded, then you could have easily said "of course bdsm is about spanking, lots of caning too, some may also be into whipping". Do you now see where things went awry? Yes, my usage of English is not concise enough, I used the wrong descriptive words, but glad we are on the same page now.

LanceHughes -> How many doms think it's okay to hurt [a sub's] self-esteem intentionally (12/26/2011 8:42:22 PM)
I had originally written: Greta: Calm down! Glad to see you and BKSir worked it out. quote: Original: BKSir I would never hurt my pets self esteem willingly. quote: Original: Greta75 That's all the answer I need, this is the answer I am looking for, that, what is YOUR OPINION, and you have confirmed that you personally would not do it. That's all I'm asking about, I'm just wondering how many doms thinks it's okay to hurt self-esteem intentionally, that's all. If that is your question, then change the thread title to ask that. <Done and done> A poll might have been more appropriate. MY answer: I would NEVER willingly hurt anyone's self-esteem. After having been a teacher my whole life, I can seriously say, "If there's one thing Lance is about, it's self-esteem." <teeny typo>

BKSir -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 8:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: Perhaps if you would have said that it "includes verbal humiliation... etc...", there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. However with how it was worded, then you could have easily said "of course bdsm is about spanking, lots of caning too, some may also be into whipping". Do you now see where things went awry? Yes, my usage of English is not concise enough, I used the wrong descriptive words, but glad we are on the same page now. It happens, and I may be slightly cranky over the outcome of tonight's football game as well. I can get that way sometimes. ;) But, to me a sub's self esteem is of the utmost importance. I'm not terribly into "humiliation play" either, in general, aside from some slight private and public embarrassment, but nothing so far as to be considered "humiliation". Hidden and silent things generally, at that, where it's only he and I that even notice or know about it. Just not my thing, or his. :)

littlewonder -> RE: How many doms think it's okay to hurt [a sub's] self-esteem intentionally (12/26/2011 8:45:53 PM)
I don't think Master would have bothered being with me if I had really low self esteem. Sure there are some things I'm self conscious about and there are bouts when my esteem may be lower than usual but in general if I had low self esteem he would not have been interested in me to begin with. I also don't think he has any interest in lowering my esteem. He more or less would rather build up my esteem. Although he's big into humiliation, if he thought it would cause me major problems in life he would not do it. He doesn't wish to destroy us.

LanceHughes -> RE: How many doms think it's okay to hurt [a sub's] self-esteem intentionally (12/26/2011 8:50:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I don't think Master would have bothered being with me if I had really low self esteem. Sure there are some things I'm self conscious about and there are bouts when my esteem may be lower than usual but in general if I had low self esteem he would not have been interested in me to begin with. I also don't think he has any interest in lowering my esteem. He more or less would rather build up my esteem. Although he's big into humiliation, if he thought it would cause me major problems in life he would not do it. He doesn't wish to destroy us. WOW! My QFT key is getting quite the work-out tonight.

Clickofheels -> RE: How many doms think it's okay to hurt [a sub's] self-esteem intentionally (12/26/2011 8:58:43 PM)
That a sub have self esteem is very important to me. If a submissive feels he has little to no value, then how can he expect anyone else to value him? Also, I feel if my submissive has self esteem, it means he will be consistantly wishing to better himself, he will take better care of himself physically and healthwise. And he will have more to bring to the "table" of our relationship.

RaspberryLemon -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 9:03:01 PM)
My self-esteem and sense of self-worth are VERY important to my Master. He is proud of me and appreciates me, and he wants me to feel those things about myself as well. His intention is to BUILD my self-esteem and self-worth, not tear them down. He wants me to feel good about myself and he'd never intentionally do anything to harm my self-esteem. My self-esteem is part of my mental health, and my Master always has my best interests in mind. He doesn't want to harm me, he wants to take care of me. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I mean, of course bdsm is about verbal humiliation and lots of physical humiliation too, some may be also into public humiliation. Not to us, it's not. We don't do humiliation of any sort. My Master doesn't enjoy/feel the need for talking down to me or degrading/humiliating me. And I certainly don't like being degraded or humiliated either. To us, humiliation is counter-intuitive to respect (I realize this is not the same for everyone, so please nobody jump down my damn throat--I included "to us" for a reason.) Even if it's "just play," it feels off/wrong to him and me. It doesn't turn either of us on or accomplish anything productive. So we don't do it.

BoxwineForBrunch -> RE: How important is a sub's self-esteem to a dom? (12/26/2011 9:13:55 PM)
bksir and lance have covered it well. moral concerns aside, i happen to like a little humiliation when i am in the role of dom, and it's no fucking fun to humiliate someone with low self-esteem. it's certainly also vile and reprehensible and would make me think less of myself later but even in the moment there would just be nothing fun or sexy about verbally humiliating someone who does not have a high opinion of themselves. it's the difference between shoving a pie in the face of some poor son of a bitch trying to trudge home after a long day's work at the burnsmell and broken glass factory (not funny) or shoving a pie in the face of a banker with his hair all slicked back and his ferragamo tie on his way to flash his rolex as he swills ketel one at some bar down in yuppie scumville (hilarious!).

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