The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 3:02:56 PM)

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/28/opinion/ayoob-iran-iraq-sectarian-strife/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The bad news - it's Iran.




mnottertail -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 3:15:39 PM)

Jesus H Mohammed Ganesha Christ!!!!    Nobody saw that comin'.




Politesub53 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 3:19:23 PM)

To top it off, China have signed an oil exploration deal with Afghanistan, on top of rights to mine for copper.




mnottertail -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 3:20:59 PM)

Well, even in this dismal economy and the kites we bounced with them, they still have a little jing to throw around, not like we do, the war was one of pocketbooks and excess all along the way we caged it, and by god, we are going to end up being somebodies trollop.




Real0ne -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 4:15:14 PM)

yep just like america, once you take a country by conquest you can sell it all off to the highest bidder.

kool the way nation building works aint it.
~East India Company




Politesub53 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 4:19:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yep just like america, once you take a country by conquest you can sell it all off to the highest bidder.

kool the way nation building works aint it.
~East India Company




Thats not whats happening here though is it. It is kind of stupide to suggest America is selling anything off to the highest bidder.

It is the Iraqi government dealing with Iran and America will gain nothing.




popeye1250 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 4:43:53 PM)

Steven, where's the downside?
They'll go to war and kill each other off, we won't have to do anymore "rebuilding or give them anymore "foreign aid" because Iran will be doing that right?
And who cares about "losing" Iraq? Do you plan on vacationing there?
I don't,... not ever!
Let the sunni's and shites slaughter each other and that's one less problem for Israel.




Politesub53 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 4:50:42 PM)

Except when the oil stops flowing the US and the West will be fucked.




blacksword404 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 4:56:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Except when the oil stops flowing the US and the West will be fucked.


We were always over that barrel. We were never going to get our hands on that oil. China simply come in like a vacuum in our wake and pluck up the spoils while were busy hitting our toes with hammers.




DarkSteven -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 5:44:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Steven, where's the downside?
They'll go to war and kill each other off, we won't have to do anymore "rebuilding or give them anymore "foreign aid" because Iran will be doing that right?
And who cares about "losing" Iraq? Do you plan on vacationing there?
I don't,... not ever!
Let the sunni's and shites slaughter each other and that's one less problem for Israel.



1. An unstable Middle East is bad news. Period. 
2. I don't like innocents getting slaughtered.




SilverBoat -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 5:58:13 PM)

Agreed, about the #2 especially. And I'd note that one of the few upsides to Middle East instability might be the US having to get serious about alternative energy, energy economy, and energy independence.

And it's a consideration that Arabs/Persians/etc getting extremely rowdy is that they share a continent with the Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, and Russian economies they'd upset. Those other guys don't have military-across-ocean logistics to deal with, and all of 'em have really big bombs and more disgruntled boot than we could muster.




tweakabelle -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/28/2011 7:57:43 PM)

The Middle East region spends c$98.6 billion on arms purchases annually.* Most of this is spent in the West (we have to pay for all that oil somehow).

We arm the rulers of the region to the teeth. We demand the oil they possess. We do the invading. (Iran, since the Islamic Revolution, has invaded precisely zero (0) countries.) The peoples of the region do virtually all the dying.

If Iraq goes pear shaped, Iran won't invade. It will arm and/or finance the Iraqi Govt to fight Sunni and/or Kurdish rebels. Saudi Arabia and the tinpot potentates of the Gulf will arm and/or finance the rebels. The West will prefer a rebel victory (preferably a slow victory in order to maximise arms sales). Historically and strategically, Iraq's Sunnis will be seen as better partners for the West, while the Shia will have shown themselves 'untrustworthy' for daring to ally themselves with their co-religionists in Iran (the West's version of a "Great Satan")

As Iraq falls apart, we, in the West, will still buy oil and sell arms to the region while simultaneously mouthing sanctimonious platitudes and shaking our heads sadly at those 'primitive Muslims' who slaughter each other in Allah's name.

In short, business as usual.

* http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending




xssve -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 5:24:59 AM)

As a Shia state, it puts a big obstacle in the middle of the radical Salafist dream of a pan-Arab (sunni) state, since SA is the anchor point.

As for the oil, we'll either have to start dealing with them fairly or seek alternatives - the horror!




tweakabelle -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 5:27:54 AM)

US to sell Iraq $11 billion of arms, including planes, tanks .............. despite fears of civil war.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/iraqi-arms-deal-stokes-fears-of-civil-war-20111229-1pe9a.html




MrRodgers -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 6:29:08 AM)

'Mission Accomplished'




MrRodgers -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 6:39:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The Middle East region spends c$98.6 billion on arms purchases annually.* Most of this is spent in the West (we have to pay for all that oil somehow).

We arm the rulers of the region to the teeth. We demand the oil they possess. We do the invading. (Iran, since the Islamic Revolution, has invaded precisely zero (0) countries.) The peoples of the region do virtually all the dying.

If Iraq goes pear shaped, Iran won't invade. It will arm and/or finance the Iraqi Govt to fight Sunni and/or Kurdish rebels. Saudi Arabia and the tinpot potentates of the Gulf will arm and/or finance the rebels. The West will prefer a rebel victory (preferably a slow victory in order to maximise arms sales). Historically and strategically, Iraq's Sunnis will be seen as better partners for the West, while the Shia will have shown themselves 'untrustworthy' for daring to ally themselves with their co-religionists in Iran (the West's version of a "Great Satan")

As Iraq falls apart, we, in the West, will still buy oil and sell arms to the region while simultaneously mouthing sanctimonious platitudes and shaking our heads sadly at those 'primitive Muslims' who slaughter each other in Allah's name.

In short, business as usual.

* http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending

Yes, war can and will be a profit even if you are...not fighting in it.




Moonhead -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 7:44:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Steven, where's the downside?
They'll go to war and kill each other off, we won't have to do anymore "rebuilding or give them anymore "foreign aid" because Iran will be doing that right?
And who cares about "losing" Iraq? Do you plan on vacationing there?
I don't,... not ever!
Let the sunni's and shites slaughter each other and that's one less problem for Israel.



1. An unstable Middle East is bad news. Period. 
2. I don't like innocents getting slaughtered.


You'd think that as somebody with a bee in his bonnet about money leaving the country, he'd find the fact that the billions your last two governments have pissed away on the "reconstruction" of Iraq will be wasted as soon as the Ayatollah takes over. as well...




Hillwilliam -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 7:45:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Steven, where's the downside?
They'll go to war and kill each other off, we won't have to do anymore "rebuilding or give them anymore "foreign aid" because Iran will be doing that right?
And who cares about "losing" Iraq? Do you plan on vacationing there?
I don't,... not ever!
Let the sunni's and shites slaughter each other and that's one less problem for Israel.



1. An unstable Middle East is bad news. Period. 
2. I don't like innocents getting slaughtered.


You'd think that as somebody with a bee in his bonnet about money leaving the country, he'd find the fact that the billions your last two governments have pissed away on the "reconstruction" of Iraq will be wasted as soon as the Ayatollah takes over. as well...

moon, it was wasted the second it left US soil.




Moonhead -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 7:47:54 AM)

I know that, you know that, but the inside of Popeye's head is not like other places, is it?




tj444 -> RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave. (12/29/2011 7:49:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You'd think that as somebody with a bee in his bonnet about money leaving the country, he'd find the fact that the billions your last two governments have pissed away on the "reconstruction" of Iraq will be wasted as soon as the Ayatollah takes over. as well...

pffffft.. no big deal.. the US govt can print more money.. its just paper and a little ink, after all.. [:D]




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