RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (Full Version)

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DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:47:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
they have been burning the flag for years. Im sorry, gentlemen. You cant preach the "first right" amendment on one issue, then defame it on another.


And you can't try and claim to be standing up for "the little guy" and what "America should be" and then burn the flag.

That'd be roughly like someone repeatedly shouting the N-word during the million-man-march. Just doesn't work. You try and portray yourself as "representing" a country I live in and then you burn the flag? That only makes me see you as the enemy.



DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Oh good, then it can be seen just as your thoughts:)
thanks for clarifying


My thoughts and the thoughts of many. Notice the dwindling numbers of the protesters and how people have moved on and ignored them? Sounds like more agree with me than them.



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:49:14 PM)

quote:

And you can't try and claim to be standing up for "the little guy" and what "America should be" and then burn the flag.


Of course they can.

quote:

That'd be roughly like someone repeatedly shouting the N-word during the million-man-march. Just doesn't work. You try and portray yourself as "representing" a country I live in and then you burn the flag? That only makes me see you as the enemy.


Think it didnt happen?

These are part of the same amendment that allows someone to come to these boards and speak about how someone else should die because of their political views.



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:50:15 PM)

quote:

My thoughts and the thoughts of many. Notice the dwindling numbers of the protesters and how people have moved on and ignored them? Sounds like more agree with me than them.


~snorts

No offence, but you dont understand this movement in the least.



kdsub -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:52:08 PM)

tazzy why do you think I believe they should not have the right?...I absolutely think they have the right...But you keep ignoring my original point...Is flag burning good for the movement?

Butch



DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:52:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Of course they can.


Yes technically they "can." But they "can" only if they want to drown out their own supposed message and build more enemies to their "cause" than allies. Judging by the very links you have posted, it's already causing dissension within the movement's own ranks. How do you think those that saw it on the news would react? Think it made anyone jump up and run down to join the "cause?" I don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
These are part of the same amendment that allows someone to come to these boards and speak about how someone else should die because of their political views.


I'm not talking amendments or rights. I'm talking about what is a good idea. And if an act splinters your own supposed "cause" then it was probably a bad idea.



Lucylastic -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:53:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

My thoughts and the thoughts of many. Notice the dwindling numbers of the protesters and how people have moved on and ignored them? Sounds like more agree with me than them.


~snorts

No offence, but you dont understand this movement in the least.

Funny from where I am, its far from dwindling.
But yanno with the head in the sand routine, its easy to see how that could be mistaken big time
notice how its ok for a random chap to say that he speaks for many, yet all the hippis and bra burners spoke for noone, but were kicked around for daring to have a different point of view
but the OWS its all or nothing,
they are scum or they are impotent
Wishful thinking is funny..sometimes



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:54:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

tazzy why do you think I believe they should not have the right?...I absolutely think they have the right...But you keep ignoring my original point...Is flag burning good for the movement?

Butch


I believe its effective. And, if you really look at what has happened, you just might see it as well.



DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:54:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
No offence, but you dont understand this movement in the least.


You keep saying that. And we keep having the same circular argument. I understand what I *need* to understand about this movement. I disagree with its very principle. As do many others. And again, I have *yet* to see one clear, concise, widely-accepted "mission statement" that's shared by each and every one of the protesters. So far, I see signs demanding corporations pay for student's tuition. And that's just silly.



DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:55:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Funny from where I am, its far from dwindling.
But yanno with the head in the sand routine, its easy to see how that could be mistaken big time
notice how its ok for a random chap to say that he speaks for many, yet all the hippis and bra burners spoke for noone, but were kicked around for daring to have a different point of view
but the OWS its all or nothing,
they are scum or they are impotent
Wishful thinking is funny..sometimes


Please highlight the part of my post where I said I spoke for others. I'd love to see that.

I said my view is merely the "same" as many others. Not that I spoke for them. There's a WORLD of difference.

You know it's funny to me that you mentioned (accused) "speaking for others." The OWS lunatics have said they speak for the "99%." Well, I'm far from rich, so by their definition, I'm in that "99%" yet I disagree whole-heartedly with their "movement." So they do not speak for me.

I've not claimed to speak for anyone but myself (despite the accusation to the contrary). Yet they claim to speak for me and anyone who's "not rich."



Lucylastic -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:55:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

yep...but i did kick a few of their asses when i got home.

Butch

But you find flag burning to be worse
thats telling



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 4:59:47 PM)

quote:

Yes technically they "can." But they "can" only if they want to drown out their own supposed message and build more enemies to their "cause" than allies. Judging by the very links you have posted, it's already causing dissension within the movement's own ranks. How do you think those that saw it on the news would react? Think it made anyone jump up and run down to join the "cause?" I don't.


Again, you arent seeing the bigger picture here. I will wait till you do. [;)]

quote:

I'm not talking amendments or rights. I'm talking about what is a good idea. And if an act splinters your own supposed "cause" then it was probably a bad idea.


I dont consider many things a "good idea" that many others do. I dont agree that threatening the President, or any politician, is a good idea, yet many do.

I dont agree with children under the age of 14 owning a rifle.. yet many do.

I dont agree with book burnings...yet many do.

As far as a "splinter group" what do you think the Tea Party group is? A splinter from the GOP.



kdsub -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:01:06 PM)

The below is worth repeating…

Almost 40,000 men and women died, their caskets covered, and flag presented to their grieving relatives. Americans that burned flags then were assholes and they are today.

To this add 4,000 in Iraq and another 1,700 in Afghanistan… why not just get a flag and spit on it too...maybe use it as toilet tissue as well...yea that will get middle America on your side…

I'm done even talking with those that defend it.



DarqueMirror -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:03:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Again, you arent seeing the bigger picture here. I will wait till you do. [;)]


And again. I'm seeing what they show. And what they show me is abject failure and wanting others to pay for their shit.

Know what? I've got a better idea. Since you claim to understand the "movement" so well and you claim I don't. Why don't *you* explain it to me. C'mon. Sum it up in 25 words or less that will "enlighten" me and make me see the "big picture" as something other than socialism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
As far as a "splinter group" what do you think the Tea Party group is? A splinter from the GOP.


I didn't say a splinter group. I said splintering their own group. There's a difference.



Lucylastic -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:04:13 PM)

gives him his ball and shows him the door



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:12:51 PM)

quote:

As do many others.


Many.. define many... because poll after poll has shown support for the movement.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-05/business/30478459_1_protesters-tent-cities-approval-rating

New York City voters disapprove 51 - 42 percent of the way Mayor Michael Bloomberg handled the Occupy Wall Street protestors and give the Police Department a 50 - 46 percent positive grade for the way they handled the protests, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Voters approve 52 - 43 percent of the way the protests have been conducted.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/new-york-city/release-detail?ReleaseID=1680

But, let me ask you... all the families.. all the children... I suppose you believe they should be out there protesting... so you can berate the parents for being out there instead of home over the holidays.

Its going to be a nice spring, I do believe.



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:17:17 PM)

quote:

Almost 40,000 men and women died, their caskets covered, and flag presented to their grieving relatives. Americans that burned flags then were assholes and they are today.

To this add 4,000 in Iraq and another 1,700 in Afghanistan… why not just get a flag and spit on it too...maybe use it as toilet tissue as well...yea that will get middle America on your side…


This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. BUT, when you start restricting one right, its a slippery slope.

And look at all the attention



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:18:58 PM)

quote:

I didn't say a splinter group. I said splintering their own group. There's a difference.


Why is it different? The GOP splintered their own group as well....

quote:

Know what? I've got a better idea. Since you claim to understand the "movement" so well and you claim I don't. Why don't *you* explain it to me. C'mon. Sum it up in 25 words or less that will "enlighten" me and make me see the "big picture" as something other than socialism.


We just had that thread. Sorry you missed it. But as usual, a few spoiled it and the thread was removed.



kdsub -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:26:26 PM)

quote:

This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. BUT, when you start restricting one right, its a slippery slope


Damn tazzy...listen...listen...listen...I do not want to restrict anyone’s right to burn a flag...understand...I'll say it once more....I don't want to restrict anyone’s right to burn a flag.. did you hear...did you understand...should I say it a few more times?

What I am saying...that you can't seem to comprehend... is that burning the flag will do the OWS no good... It is a bad idea... Here you went on a month ago about servicemen in the movement... What do you think They will feel about flag burning... What will the firemen...construction workers... office workers... sanitation workers think about flag burning? This is the point I am trying to get over to you…It is still just an opinion but I think a valid one…if you would just listen

Butch



tazzygirl -> RE: Occupy tries to stay in the news (12/31/2011 5:43:20 PM)

quote:

Damn tazzy...listen...listen...listen...I do not want to restrict anyone’s right to burn a flag...understand...I'll say it once more....I don't want to restrict anyone’s right to burn a flag.. did you hear...did you understand...should I say it a few more times?


But you want the right to kick their asses because they did. You want the right to denegrate them, demoralize them, even attempt to dehumanize them, for something you state they have a right to do.

quote:

What I am saying...that you can't seem to comprehend... is that burning the flag will do the OWS no good... It is a bad idea... Here you went on a month ago about servicemen in the movement... What do you think They will feel about flag burning... What will the firemen...construction workers... office workers... sanitation workers think about flag burning? This is the point I am trying to get over to you…It is still just an opinion but I think a valid one…if you would just listen


I grew up in the military, Butch. My dad was in for 25 years. He is getting older, as are many of his retired buddies.

What does he, and his vet friends think? That to do such an act is a reflection of anger and disappointment at the government. They realize the American flag stands for more than those who fought under it. It also reflects the government that flies it. And when people are angry at that government, this may happen.

He and his buddies is where I got my views on this issue, Butch.. Also remember, many of them were growing up/serving in the Vietnam era, my dad included. Many of that generation remember, and understand, in ways many of us probably never will.

You and I are products of our generations, our families and our backgrounds. You complain about the flag being spat upon. My dad had his body spat upon. Please, dont assume you would possibly understand how that could make a man feel, being treated that way while working for a government who allowed it.

My father loves his country. He also knows the place that anger comes from towards his country.



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