Neocons should love this (Full Version)

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erieangel -> Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 11:07:30 AM)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/rick-santorum-iran-iowa-caucuses-2012-_n_1178483.html?ncid=webmail7


If elected Santorum promises to put us into yet another war--this time with Iran.  Of course, that would happen only if Iran failed to meet his ultimatum to "open up their nuclear facilities, begin to dismantle them and make them available to inspectors". 10+ years of war, trillions of dollars wasted, thousands of our young men and women slaughtered or maimed--not to mention the innocent men, women and children who have been killed and deformed by America's war machine.  The only thing that will prevent Iran from eventually having a nuclear weapon would be for them to be nuked into oblivion.  Bombing their nuclear facilities with conventional weapons will only delay the inevitable.  Unless America continues to bomb into the unforeseen future...




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 11:27:55 AM)

 
Hmmm... let's see...

1)  Clinton "bombed" Iraq -- did not result in "war".

2)  Reagan "bombed" Libya -- did not result in "war".

3)  Obama hasn't taken "any options off the table" with regard to Iran:

"We don't take any options off the table in terms of how we operate with Iran."
 
-- Barack Obama


But by all means, do keep up with the Left/Libs usual nonsensical fear-mongering.

[8|]





erieangel -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 11:39:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA


Hmmm... let's see...

1)  Clinton "bombed" Iraq -- did not result in "war".

2)  Reagan "bombed" Libya -- did not result in "war".

3)  Obama hasn't taken "any options off the table" with regard to Iran:

"We don't take any options off the table in terms of how we operate with Iran."
 
-- Barack Obama


But by all means, do keep up with the Left/Libs usual nonsensical fear-mongering.

[8|]





And apparently, Santorum will have very few options "on the table".  That's the problem.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 1:51:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Santorum will have very few options "on the table".  That's the problem.



No, "the problem" is he's CAMPAIGNING -- i.e., talkin' tough.  Nobody is just gonna willy-nilly go and attack Iran.  Campaign rhetoric, as I view it.

As an aside, I watched the video on the page you'd linked to, but there was no clip of Santorum stating what's being reported?!!  I did Google this, but haven't found video of it???  I know this is a relatively fresh story, so maybe video wil be up later.

EDIT:  Just found what he actually said ---> HERE

The "bombing" thing (never actually used the word "bomb", btw) was not the ONLY option -- he referred to a "5 Point Plan" with air strikes being the last resort of said "5 Point Plan".





Hillwilliam -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 2:28:37 PM)

It's a good thing he has all the chances of being elected that a certain west coast poster has of being elected "Miss Congeniality"




joether -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 4:05:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
1)  Clinton "bombed" Iraq -- did not result in "war".


He didnt bomb Iraq, he used cruise missiles. Missiles are DIFFERENT from bombs. Of course in making your arguement, you conviently left out a HUGE amount of information. how 'typical' of a conservative to leave FACTS and EVIDENCE out of an arguement....

1) George H. W. Bush, as President INVADED Iraq to help 'free' Kuwait from the invasion by Saddam Hussein.

2) After G. H. W. Bush left office, Hussein sent an assassin to kill him DURING the Clinton Administration. Hence, the use of CRUISE MISSILES to 'bomb' Iraq. Clinton didnt invade Iraq because there wasnt a need for it. The assassin...FAILED....

3) After Clinton, George W. Bush took office. Do you think G. W. Bush was related to G. W. H. Bush in anyway there, MasterSlaveLA? So, like any good son, whom loves his father, wanted to get REVENGE on Saddam. So the whole fabrication of WMDs was born and the USA invaded Iraq to kill Saddam (just how many conservatives could rattle off the four reasons WHY we invaded Iraq?).

So yeah, your right in a delusional sort of way. Clinton's 'attack' didnt result in a war. That's because the war apparently never ended during the first Bush administration. Oh, an neither what which Bush did was considered an ACTUAL war, but a 'Military Engagement'. For it to have been an ACTUAL war, the United States would have had to....DECLARE WAR. Do you know the last countries the United States declared war on there, MasterSlaveLA?

Here's a hint: Nazis, Pearl Harbor and a land mass that looks like a woman's boot.




tazzygirl -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 4:34:34 PM)

quote:

2) After G. H. W. Bush left office, Hussein sent an assassin to kill him DURING the Clinton Administration. Hence, the use of CRUISE MISSILES to 'bomb' Iraq. Clinton didnt invade Iraq because there wasnt a need for it. The assassin...FAILED....


Yet the Pentagon could find no record of this incident.




provfivetine -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 5:06:28 PM)

The neocons are going to try to upstage Obama, who is already a hawkish president; a true neocon cannot allow a progressive democrat to be perceived as strong on defense. Therefore, the neocons are going to be ultra hawkish this time around.

Electing anyone not named Ron Paul basically guarantees war with Iran. Hell, Obama may even bomb Iran before the election. He's become quite the neocon himself.




Politesub53 -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 5:13:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The "bombing" thing (never actually used the word "bomb", btw) was not the ONLY option -- he referred to a "5 Point Plan" with air strikes being the last resort of said "5 Point Plan".





Even your own link is headlined "Santorum: I`d bomb Iran."

Lets give you that on though and ask the following question. What, in your own words, do you think "Degrade those facilities through airstikes" actually means ?

I will even give you some help, think "bombs falling from the sky"




ClassIsInSession -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 5:19:41 PM)

I would definitely have to agree with provfivetine, that electing anyone other than Ron Paul will almost guarantee a war with Iran, and I'll add to that, that going to war with Iran, will almost certainly guarantee we will go to war with Russia and China as well, as I don't think they will turn a blind eye to advances on Iran.

I find it foolish, reckless and unfortunately typical U.S. foreign policy. You might have noticed that Hillary Clinton has recently irritated Putin, that we are increasingly unable to pay our debt service payments to China, which further fuels this likelihood. (And, if you doubt it, looks at the recent military advances claimed by both China and Russia.)

The problem with all of this is that the politicians will instigate it, then it will be the people who will pay for it in inflation and blood, while the politicians continue taking vacations to 10,000/a day vacation retreats.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 6:00:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's a good thing he has all the chances of being elected...



Yes, he should... it's called the DEMOCRATIC PROCESS -- you're against each person being afforded that?!!





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 6:04:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
1)  Clinton "bombed" Iraq -- did not result in "war".


He didnt bomb Iraq, he used cruise missiles.



Yeah, and I'm sure a "cruse missle" hitting something is on par with being licked by baby kittens.  [8|]




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 6:21:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The "bombing" thing (never actually used the word "bomb", btw) was not the ONLY option -- he referred to a "5 Point Plan" with air strikes being the last resort of said "5 Point Plan".



Even your own link is headlined "Santorum: I'd bomb Iran."



My "link" was to view the video... did you really need the disclaimer, "Lefty idiots distort Santorum's words in page title"?!! [8|]

quote:



What, in your own words, do you think "Degrade those facilities through airstikes" actually means?



What, in your own words, do YOU think, ""We don't take any options off the table in terms of how we operate with Iran." (ala Barack Obama) means?!!  Here, let me help you out, since you couldn't figure it out on your own... it means the O'Blunder would BOMB THE FUCK OUT OF IRAN AS WELL, if need be (Hint:  The same as Santorum).

I know you've always needed a bit of help with some of the simplest things (i.e., logic), so I'll make it easier for you... here we go:

1)  The OP implied Santorum would go directly to the military option.

2)  The video provided (i.e., Santorum in his own words) proves this is FALSE (Hint:  "5 Point Plan")

There, got it now?!!  Can't spell this out any simpler for you. [8|]






MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 7:37:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet the Pentagon could find no record of this incident.



So Clinton lied, the FBI lied, the CIA lied, the Bomb Experts lied, The Washington Post lied, and those who confessed lied.  Yeah, got it. [8|]


U.S. Strikes Iraq for Plot to Kill Bush
By David Von Drehle and R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, June 27, 1993

 
U.S. Navy ships launched 23 Tomahawk missiles against the headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service yesterday in what President Clinton said was a "firm and commensurate" response to Iraq's plan to assassinate former president George Bush in mid-April.
 
The attack was meant to strike at the building where Iraqi officials had plotted against Bush, organized other unspecified terrorist actions and directed repressive internal security measures, senior U.S. officials said.
 
Clinton, speaking in a televised address to the nation at 7:40 last night, said he ordered the attack to send three messages to the Iraqi leadership: "We will combat terrorism. We will deter aggression. We will protect our people."
 
Clinton said he ordered the attack after receiving "compelling evidence" from U.S. intelligence officials that Bush had been the target of an assassination plot and that the plot was "directed and pursued by the Iraqi Intelligence Service."
 
"It was an elaborate plan devised by the Iraqi government and directed against a former president of the United States because of actions he took as president," Clinton said. Bush led the coalition that drove Iraq from Kuwait in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "As such, the Iraqi attack against President Bush was an attack against our country and against all Americans," Clinton said.
 
After two months of investigation and mounting evidence, Clinton became convinced during two "exhaustive and exhausting" meetings last week that Iraq was indeed behind a foiled car-bomb plot to kill Bush during his visit to Kuwait April 14-16, a senior administration official said.
 
Aides met with Clinton Wednesday in the White House residence to present a summary of the evidence gathered by FBI and intelligence sources, the official said. On Thursday, Attorney General Janet Reno and CIA Director R. James Woolsey presented the president with their formal reports.
 
Clinton ordered the attack Friday, but the raid was delayed a day so it would not fall on the Muslim sabbath, the official said. "About a dozen" U.S. allies and "friends in the region" were told in advance that the attack was coming; the reaction, according to the official, was mostly favorable. British Prime Minister John Major issued a statement last night supporting Clinton's action.
 
The missiles struck late at night -- between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m. Baghdad time -- because Clinton wished to minimize possible deaths of innocent civilians.
 
But Iraq, which has consistently denied involvement in any assassination plot against Bush, said there were "many civilian casualties" as a result of the Tomahawk attack, the Reuter news service reported. It quoted Iraqi civil defense officials as saying three people were killed and four rescued.
 
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's ruling Revolution Command Council denounced the raid as "cowardly aggression" and said Washington's reason for launching it was "fabricated by the vile Kuwaiti rulers in coordination with agencies in the U.S. administration."
 
An Iraqi Ministry of Information spokesman said the missiles hit a residential area, where Reuter reported that three houses were destroyed.
 
From Baghdad, Reuter reported smoke and what appeared to be a huge blaze could be seen rising from the site, about two miles from the center of the city in a residential district. But reporters were not immediately given access to the site.
 
Clinton was persuaded to act by three kinds of evidence, a senior intelligence official said last night. First, key suspects in the plot confessed to FBI agents in Kuwait. Second, FBI bomb experts painstakingly linked the captured car bomb to previous explosives made in Iraq. Third, unspecified intelligence assessments concluded that Saddam meant seriously the threats he has made against Bush. Other classified intelligence sources supported this analysis, the official said.

The combination made the CIA "highly confident that the Iraqi government, at the highest levels, directed its intelligence service to assassinate former president Bush," said the intelligence official.
 
Clinton had harsh words for Saddam -- Bush's arch-nemesis during the Persian Gulf War -- in his Oval Office address. After listing the Iraqi leader's offenses against the world and his own people, Clinton said: "This attempt at revenge by a tyrant against the leader of the world coalition that defeated him in war is particularly loathsome and cowardly."

Indeed, the tone of the whole speech was notably forceful and stern, coming from the often avuncular Clinton. He saved his kind words for the men and women involved in the investigation and the military strike: "You have my gratitude, and the gratitude of all Americans," he said.
 
The action was the second major U.S. military operation conducted during Clinton's presidency, coming just two weeks after U.S. forces participated in a multinational strike against forces in Somalia allied with warlord Mohamed Farah Aideed. Unlike that operation, the raid against Iraq was taken unilaterally, entirely apart from the U.N. sanctions still in place against the Iraqi regime.
 
"This crime was committed against the United States, and we elected to respond and to exercise our right of self defense" under Article 51 of the U.N. charter, Defense Secretary Les Aspin said. "Tonight's unilateral action in no way diminishes U.S. support for coalition action or for the authority of the United Nations."
 
Bush -- at his home in Kennebunkport, Maine -- was terse when reached by the Associated Press. "I'm not in the interview business, but thank you very much for calling," he said.
 
Administration sources said Bush's friend and former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft was kept apprised of the investigation, and Clinton called Bush minutes after the attack was launched to give him the news. Secretary of State Warren Christopher flew to Kennebunkport yesterday to brief the former president.
 
Clinton relied heavily on evidence found by FBI bomb experts linking the Iraqi Intelligence Service to a 175-pound car bomb found April 14 in Kuwait City. According to senior intelligence and law enforcement officials, key pieces of the bomb -- including the remote-control detonator, the plastic explosives, the electronic circuitry and the wiring -- bore an overwhelming resemblance to components of bombs previously recovered from the Iraqis.
 
The White House press office distributed photographs of circuit boards and detonators taken from earlier Iraqi bombs, alongside photos of the same elements from the bomb meant for Bush. Even to the untrained eye, there were clear similarities.
 
"Certain aspects of these devices have been found only in devices linked to Iraq," an intelligence official said.

Clinton also had the confessions of the two alleged leaders of the 16 suspects arrested by Kuwait when the plot was uncovered. Both are Iraqi nationals. Ra'ad Asadi and Wali Abdelhadi Ghazali told FBI investigators detailed to Kuwait that they met in Basra, Iraq, on April 12 with "individuals they believed to be associated with the Iraqi Intelligence Service," according to a senior U.S. intelligence official.
 
They were given a vehicle loaded with hidden explosives. Ghazali told the FBI he was recruited specifically to kill Bush. Asadi also told the FBI he was to guide the car bomb, driven by his partner, to Kuwait University, where Bush was to be honored by the Emir of Kuwait for his leadership in the gulf war.
 
Administration officials said the suspects told the FBI that the bomb was to be parked near the motorcade route. From a vantage point 300 to 500 yards away, Ghazali would set off the bomb using a remote control. FBI bomb specialists estimated the bomb would have been lethal for nearly a quarter-mile.
 
FBI agents were told if the remote control device failed, the bomb was to be detonated by a timing device on a street in Kuwait City named for Bush. They were also told that Ghazali had a "bomb belt" he would use if all else failed; he was to wear it, approach Bush and blow them both up.
 
There have been reports that the suspects held in Kuwait have been tortured by Kuwaiti officials, but a senior law enforcement official said last night that FBI agents "believe they were not." Nevertheless, the official said, confessions are often unreliable, which is why the investigators placed "an especially great emphasis" on the conclusions of the bomb experts.
 
The CIA recalled that, after the gulf war, Saddam was heard on official Iraq media promising to hunt down and punish Bush, even after he left office. A senior intelligence official said the CIA also had classified evidence proving that the car bomb was meant for Bush, from Saddam.
 
"We could not and have not let such action against our nation go unanswered," Clinton said in his televised address. "From the first days of our revolution, America's security has depended on the clarity of this message: Don't tread on us."
 
Clinton had criticized the Iraqi regime on Friday for failing to allow continuous monitoring of its missile test sites by the United Nations. The monitoring was accepted by Baghdad at the end of the 1991 gulf war, as part of a series of agreements meant to strip Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.
 
But U.S. officials did not cite that dispute in explaining the action last night, and U.S. warplanes involved in policing U.N. sanctions against Iraq did not take part.
 
Congressional leaders from both parties supported Clinton's action. Senate Minority Leader Robert J. Dole (R-Kan.) called the president from Charleston, W.Va., to give a thumbs-up. "I think it was a good thing. I support it. If I can help, let me know," Dole told Clinton, according to a CNN interview.
 
The U.S. attack was initiated at 4:22 p.m. (EDT), when two ships -- the destroyer USS Peterson in the Red Sea and the cruiser USS Chancellorsville in the Persian Gulf -- began firing a total of 23 Tomahawk cruise missiles at the Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters complex in downtown Baghdad.
 
The missiles, which each cost an estimated $1.1 million, typically fly 50 to 100 feet above the ground and navigate by radar according to detailed maps stored in onboard computers. Each missile was capable of carrying up to 1,000 pounds of conventional explosives on their flight to Baghdad of up to two hours.
 
Officials said the number of missiles was set after detailed analysis of what would be needed to ruin the complex. Navy officials programmed most of the missiles to hit specific aim-points at a building near the center, which Aspin called the "hub of . . . operational planning, interrogations, communication, and computer operations" for the Iraqi Intelligence Service.
 
Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Colin L. Powell told reporters at the Pentagon last night that a detailed assessment of the damage was not immediately available. But Powell said he had "preliminary information that a large number of them impacted where they were supposed to."
 
Officials made clear that no further military action was planned and warned Iraq not to retaliate. Powell said the Navy had moved several ships closer to Iraq so the United States could respond to any Iraqi retaliation.
 
An aerial picture of the principal targeted building, shown to reporters at the Pentagon last night, showed a large, six-story structure with three wings located off the central corridors. Four satellite dishes sat atop the building's roof.

Nearby were various buildings labeled as administrative, housing and support offices or vehicle storage sheds, and the entire complex -- roughly a football field in length -- was surrounded by a wall. U.S. officials cited the complex's isolation and the fact that the attack was timed to occur during Baghdad's nighttime as factors that would reduce the number of innocent casualties.
 
Powell and Aspin declined to say how many people were expected to be in the complex but said a portion of it functioned around the clock. The attack was not expected to "take down the entire complex," Powell said, but to ruin Iraq's ability to continue using it.
 
He noted that the complex was attacked and damaged once before by the United States, during the 1991 Operation Desert Storm bombing campaign aimed at pressuring Iraq to withdraw its forces from Kuwait. But Iraq had since rebuilt the headquarters.
 
Aspin said the Iraqi Intelligence Service is the country's largest such agency and was responsible for providing security for Saddam's regime, repressing internal opposition, collecting foreign intelligence and conducting terrorist operations abroad, including the planned assassination attempt.
 
Asked to explain why the United States picked that target and did not go after Saddam himself, Aspin said, "It's very difficult to target a single individual. It's very difficult to capture a single individual. Dropping bombs on the hope that you're going to get a single individual is a very, very demanding task."
 
Aspin said, "What we're doing is sending a message against the people who were responsible for planning this operation. . . . {If} anybody asks the same people to do it again, they will remember this message."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm







Owner59 -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 8:36:27 PM)

Neo-cons are going to love this too.

"Rick Santorum Implies Obama Should Be Pro-Life Because He's Black"


Check out his "logic" and reasoning here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=as2Z5K-eN4s

Do we really want a guy who ticks this way, to be president of the United States?




MrRodgers -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 9:05:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

The neocons are going to try to upstage Obama, who is already a hawkish president; a true neocon cannot allow a progressive democrat to be perceived as strong on defense. Therefore, the neocons are going to be ultra hawkish this time around.

Electing anyone not named Ron Paul basically guarantees war with Iran. Hell, Obama may even bomb Iran before the election. He's become quite the neocon himself.

I agree and here's why. We elected change right ? Let's see what hasn't changed...

...didn't get out of Afghan. and in fact increased our presence with a surge and before removing troops from Iraq.

...didn't get out of Iraq in 14mos. as promised but prolonged Iraq for 3 years and only now have left and left the largest diplomatic compound and presence anywhere in the world and a reported 5,000 private contractors.

...left GITMO open and has not processed any suspects (otherwise now known as 'terrorists') and deported them.

...still have the patriot act and powers of the govt. enhanced with the new def. auth. bill to now with a modified posse comitatus to allow the US Army to come pick you up, take you to GITMO and all...without a word.

...still right in bed with the bankers.

...still running up debt which is 'berry, berry' profitable.

...and now as always people, no change. We still can't and never will again, be able to believe a single word...out govt. tells us.

They are all puppets. I guarantee Ron Paul will suffer whatever is necessary to marginalize him or somehow 'force' him out of the race. Karl Rove I am sure has something and $millions up his sleeve for Paul.




tazzygirl -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 9:09:50 PM)

quote:

...didn't get out of Iraq in 14mos.


You will have to show me where that promise came from.

quote:

I guarantee Ron Paul will suffer whatever is necessary to marginalize him or somehow 'force' him out of the race. Karl Rove I am sure has something and $millions up his sleeve for Paul.


His book is a great starting place.




Owner59 -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 9:17:32 PM)

Not sure where the alternate reality comes from but President Obama campaigned promising to send MORE troops to Afghanistan.

BTW,we`re out of Iraq.No small feat.Let`s see you do better.

GITMO....not every fuck-up can be fixed.Sorry.

Patriot Act?...Don`t make bombs and you have nothing to worry about.

In bed w/ bankers?...Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Top Executives Charged With Fraud

As for change and positive changes at that,there has been numerous postings of the president`s accomplishments and achievements over that last 24 months or so.




MrRodgers -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 9:31:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Not sure where the alternate reality comes from but President Obama campaigned promising to send MORE troops to Afghanistan.

BTW,we`re out of Iraq.No small feat.Let`s see you do better.

GITMO....not every fuck-up can be fixed.Sorry.

Patriot Act?...Don`t make bombs and you have nothing to worry about.

In bed w/ bankers?...Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Top Executives Charged With Fraud

As for change and positive changes at that,there has been numerous postings of the president`s accomplishments and achievements over that last 24 months or so.


He campaigned on getting out of both wars and Afghan in 24 mos.

Making no distinction when the fed using $7-$8 trillion to bail out foreign and domestic balance sheets is flat our being in bed with the bankers. I say all presidents are supposed to be powerless when it comes to the financial health of the US.

GITMO could be close and attendants brought to the US with an executive order.

His only real achievements were Obamacare and the stimulus, otherwise he has continued neocon policies where they matter most.





tazzygirl -> RE: Neocons should love this (1/1/2012 9:47:29 PM)

quote:

He campaigned on getting out of both wars and Afghan in 24 mos.


Not according to Politico

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/mar/02/mitt-romney/romney-claims-obamas-actions-iraq-afghanistan-and-/





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