No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (Full Version)

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Clickofheels -> No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 8:08:09 AM)

The No.1 thread went so gently and calmly (isn't that great?) I thought we might try another! (Smiles)

It's interesting to me to learn why/how people become interested in this life.
And I've read that some people became interested at (what I would call) an incredibly early age.

So I started wondering if anyone became exposed (no, no! Keep your clothes on!) to BDSM or D/s within their home environment growing up... as in either parent was more Dominant or more submissive, perhaps a grandparent or aunt/uncle introduced them to it, etc.?

If you don't mind sharing... what is your story?

Thanks for your posts to this thread!

Regards,
Ms Click




littlewonder -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 8:25:57 AM)

I grew up in a traditional household, mom as the stay at home wife, dad as the breadwinner, the leader in the family. It was the religion and culture in which I grew up. It's what I'm used to and what I'm comfortable with. It's what I find attractive in a man. So I guess you could say for me it's just always been that way for me.

If you're talking about the kinky sex then again I guess I've never known anything else. From the moment I lost my virginity it's been that way. I've never known anything else. All the men I've ever been with have been "kinky" in one sense or another. I don't understand anything else when people talk about "vanilla". I have no clue what "vanilla" even means when people talk about it. I never had dreams about it or thought about it as a kid like I hear others talk. It's just always been that way.




Epytropos -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 8:29:37 AM)

I wasn't really exposed to it in the way we practice it, but my parents definitely had a power dynamic. My father was the head of the household, and both my parents made pretty clear from preschool age on that that was the 'proper' order of things - the man leads, the woman follows. That's probably where it all began. After a game became popular at my gradeschool were girls were 'slaves' to individual boys I think my fate was sealed lol. My first real introduction to BDSM in it's more explicit forms would probably have been in stolen penthouse letters (lol) when I was maybe 13-14, and I took my first (and so far only) slave at 16. I dunno if that's incredibly early or not, but its definitely been a part of me from a pretty young age.

ETA: as Littlewonder says, I've never really known anything else.



Hillwilliam -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 8:37:20 AM)

I never liked to follow, always wanted to be out front. In my teens, I was kind of a dichotomy. I didn't put up with bullying in my presence and it was accepted that you don't mess with a guy who qualified for nationals twice and benches 300. If he hates bullies, you just don't do it around him.


On the mat, it was a totally different story. I was called an "Animal" and a "Sadist".

Something clicked when my first GF in college (she was 6 years older and a bit kinky) looked up at me one day with sperm dripping off her chin and said "Thank you Sir". The rest is history.



LaTigresse -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 8:58:59 AM)

The environment I grew up in, religious and had the M/f dynamic as 'what it should be', would lead one to believe that would be my path also. However, my parents didn't have ANY sort of functional relationship. No one lead and no one followed. They rarely even slept together.

Oddly enough, even though there was a common theme of male head of household in the family and those around us, the reality is that I never once remember knowing a man that actually DID lead the relationship in actuality. Even today, I've yet to meet a hetro couple where the man is, really in charge. I know a few that are a solid partnership, more than are passive aggressively lead by the woman in a pretty messed up (to me) way, and a few that the man will admit that the woman is the one calling the shots and that they prefer it that way.

As far as non hetro......most of the couples I know all buy into the PC Iowa City stuff about equality and, as a general rule, tend to be rather miserable. Very few long term relationships but they do tend to remain friends quite often.

As far as BDSM, until a woman introduced me to it about a decade ago, I was pretty damned clueless. It took me awhile to accept that aspect of myself and understand the okay factor of a power exchange dynamic. That an 'unfair' power exchange was in truth, desired by many on both sides.

It was fabulously freeing but it also forced me to do a lot of self examining, introspection, and self improvement. The kind of woman I am attracted to will only be attracted to, and submit to, me being the best me I can be. I wasn't, and am still a work in progress.

And yes, most of my family that has a clue, thinks I am either a freak, a horrible sinner, or both.



stellauk -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 9:08:16 AM)

'When I left my home and family I was no more than a boy
In the company of strangers in the quiet of the railway station running scared
Laying low seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go
Looking for the places only they would know...'
Simon & Garfunkel 'The Boxer'

I grew up as an unwanted child (my parents wanted a daughter) and missing out on adoption and migration to Canada my childhood was one of confusion, loneliness, fear, poverty and abuse.

It started for me at the age of fifteen when I ran away from home. One evening I climbed out the bedroom window of the apartment on the estate in Bradford heading for the disused railway cuttings on the former route to Halifax, by nightfall I was walking around Halifax, the early hours of the morning I was alone in the Pennines and contemplating hitchhiking. The next morning found me in Manchester, the afternoon Birmingham, and I arrived in London around teatime and disappeared into Soho.

By this time I'd added two, sometimes three, years to my age.

I was gone for three or maybe four months, I can't remember. I can recall even now the smell of stale piss and cider from the street outside Embankment Underground station when I had nowhere else to sleep and had to join the rest among the real rough sleepers and I spent a few nights sleeping outside the crypt behind a church in Waterloo.

But those nights on the streets weren't many, and in among learning to squat and how to work cash in hand I also learned a lot about sex, the LGBT community, BDSM and I also became acquainted with the leather lifestyle. Finding adults prepared to take care of you was relatively easy when you're a 'chicken' or 'twink' and not many of them asked me too many questions either.

In the end I was caught out at Kings Cross station by what I thought was a hippy but who turned out to be an undercover policeman with the drugs squad. Where I was living back in Bradford was a red light district.

Suffice to say I was a very enlightened teenager.



ResidentSadist -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 10:54:55 AM)

I am 2nd gen
Discovered the leather lifestyle in early teens
Abandoned vanilla for D/s in my 20s
Abandoned D/s for M/s in my 30s
My parents didn't influence me, but their reading materials did . . .

I was 14 years old when I discovered my mom didn't like broccoli.  I asked why she hid her distaste for it for so long and she said she didn't want to bias me with her opinion of it (btw, I like broccoli).  The same was true for their D/s lifestyle, religion, politics, sexual preferences and etc.  My parents had tremendous insight, but I got unbiased encyclopedia type answers to my questions about matters in life. 

Both my parents had genius level IQs and were avid readers, as am I.  They had an extensive library.  I grew up (pre and early teens) reading about the art of life from authors like Heinlein, Crowley, Asimov, Sacher-Masoch, Hitler, Huxley, de Sade, Vidal as well as academic psychology and philosophy books.  By age 13, I had read most of de Sade's works and everything Heinlein had ever written. Those authors heavily influenced my perspectives on the human condition and relationships a lot.

At 15 years old I collared my my first girl, a submissive masochist.  That was when my parents finally came out of the closet.  I learned some advanced lessons in life when I was in my teens.  From the age of 13 to 15 I was employed and went to school.  I could afford a chauffeur on the weekends so I ventured out into the world and discovered sex, love, passion and the lifestyle.  I became proficient in the bedroom because I met an older bisexual swinger who shared me with a string of her female lovers and they educated me... in everything.  The plethora of swingers introduced me to a variety of light BDSM like bondage, electro play, blindfolds and fantasy role play as well as good old fashioned kink like watersports, the G-spot, how to give anal orgasms, multiple orgasms and female ejaculation.

I discovered the emotional side of BDSM with a girl named danita, in a very bizarre situation involving the practice of hypnosis from ages of 15 to 17.  Despite the mild leather sex play the swingers had introduced me to, this was what I consider my first BDSM experience.  I went on to have 3 long term lifestyle relationships with felicia, tamara and julie that spanned a 30 history of love, passion, adventure and emotional bliss.  

I found the social side of BDSM through the swingers in 1971, one of which published the local swinger's magazine which also had BDSM and gay sections.  That was how I learned of the The Eulenspiegel Society in New York and the local Stocks and Bonds club in Detroit.  Hanging out with the publisher of that magazine had it's perks.  Even though I was underage, I could get into the bars, clubs and parties that advertised in it.  The first public BDSM scene I witnessed was a gay boy tied to a cross and they cut a slit in his nut sack and inflated it with a straw.  Growing up around the Leatherman exposes you to some of the more extreme S&M.  It also clearly draws the lines between dominance and submission.

Through my teens and 20s, as I discovered the world, I realized my Armenian relatives lived their own ethnic version of the lifestyle.  Other people's aunt's didn't have to ask permission to enter a room, leave the house or walk with head bowed in the presence of men.  I discovered the patriarchal family structure was a specific ethnic manifestation.  My relatives were very ethnocentric about their beliefs and protocols.  They proffered their male supremacy to me as "proper manners", "respect" and "family honor".  I was lucky my dad wasn't Armenian, that mom was and she instinctively bowed obediently to his judgement about raising me and my sister as unbiased as possible. 

Despite my relatives' influences or my parents' lack of influence, by the time I reached my 20s, by educated preference, I only had a taste for submissive females and could not tolerate vanilla.  By the time I reached my 30s, I could not tolerate the the negotiations of a submissive and prefered only slaves.  I remained active in the BDSM community ever since.  In all these years, I have found I am never too old or too smart to learn something new.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 11:05:47 AM)

My grandfather called my grandmother "boss". He was not entirely teasing. My mom...well, "force of nature", shall we say?

I grew up in a female dominated household, and with the often less than subtle message that men really needed a lot of help to get by. The kink, I seem to have been born with, though to my knowledge no one in my family is kinky.



Jaquin -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 11:07:47 AM)

For me I guess our entire family was more "open" to things because it was well known that "mommy didn't love daddy anymore cause daddy liked men".  Later, once I was grown, I learned that my father was always gay and it was his "fight with himself" that led him to marry and have three kids with my mom.  They still get along these days, they just aren't attracted to each other.

So growing up in a single parent household I didn't have the "M/f or F/m" type of parents, I just had my mom and got to visit my dad as often as mom would let us - at the time fearing his homosexuality would rub off on us or some silly thing like that.

I really don't know what came first, my sense of being (what I later found to be) transgendered or my introduction into bondage at my older brothers hand.  Where he got the idea I don't know but he thought it'd be a fun game to play, tying me down to my bed; something we did for a while, my request always to be the one tied down - but then mom caught us at it and he got all the flak for it being his idea (cause she had no idea that it could ever be my idea.. after all I was the one tied down) and (afaik, to this day) my brother gave up on it but I never did.

After that I mingled my tg nature with my fetishism, mistaking it for just another kink on the list, and it was only later that I discovered tg had nothing to do with bdsm.

And then we got the internet...


These days my entire family knows what I do, I have a collar I wear 24/7 - for the past 5 or so years I've only taken it off to clean it (or this last summer where if you stick it in the freezer for a bit so it frosts over and then wear it again... it's just a marvelous chill on a hot, humid day).  It's not really something we openly talk about (besides with my sister at times, we grew very close after I realized I was actually a girl) but I make little effort to hide my toys (except from my still young nieces) and my family just ignores it and doesn't ask.



Clickofheels -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 11:25:33 AM)

Thank you all for your candidness! What fascinating stories you have... and what windows into your souls you've opened for us all!



AndreSanThomas -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/5/2012 11:15:08 PM)

Nope. I got nothing for you. No abuse, no example, everything average. But as young as 12 or so, I was way too interested in Greeks and Roman slave girls in Social Studies.



CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/6/2012 6:34:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

The No.1 thread went so gently and calmly (isn't that great?) I thought we might try another! (Smiles)

It's interesting to me to learn why/how people become interested in this life.
And I've read that some people became interested at (what I would call) an incredibly early age.

So I started wondering if anyone became exposed (no, no! Keep your clothes on!) to BDSM or D/s within their home environment growing up... as in either parent was more Dominant or more submissive, perhaps a grandparent or aunt/uncle introduced them to it, etc.?

If you don't mind sharing... what is your story?

Thanks for your posts to this thread!

Regards,
Ms Click




I don't think my father was kinky, but he did think it was his God given right (though he was an athiest) to be Master of his home...and over the females in it. I was raised to be a slave just because I was female, and years I spent with him in our home...were micromanaged to the Nth degree. I grew up with inspections and harsh punishments for imperfections. I didn't think anything about it at the time; it's not like us kids took polls of how other kids' parents raised them. Even during years when he was jobless and mom worked one or two full time jobs he didn't lift a finger for anything he considered "women's work"...which included taking out trash and even mowing lawns, lol.

When dad tried to compliment me by saying that soon boys would be falling all over themselves over me, and gawd, when I got my period and in 5th grade was told that this made me a woman...aargh. All of my girlfriends dreamed of Prince Charming and their wedding day and I was like...you've got to be kidding! Step into that trap? I don't think so! (Laughing) Marriage was slavery, and love was a trap that made women forget all reason and enslave themselves. It was quite a shock when I discovered that some families had dynamics that were entirely different than ours, and this didn't change how I reacted to having any romantic interest in someone. I still had to be dragged kicking and screaming into falling in love, and I never felt...free...and like...myself, if you know what I mean. I always felt vulnerable, not knowing my place because the supposed leader wouldn't/couldn't LEAD, and I knew I could do better if only...

Btw, my dad was a swinger who could not coerce my mother into getting into this with him, in spite of wife swapping dates he would try to argue/bargain/plead her into. When adults have loud screaming matches kids aren't deaf.

Just saying that with all of this going on, it is a MIRACLE that I stumbled into BDSM. It was on my 38th (thought it was my 39th until I looked it up) birthday that I had my epiphany and freaked out big time, feeling disgusted with myself and horrified. [:D] Friends told me I was a kinkster and a sub, and so I tried that out for a while. It made me feel peaceful but there was no erotica. I just wasn't "getting it" and knew I was no kind of masochist either. It was hard giving myself permission to step outside of my early programming and family expectations to find my own path.

I understand D/s relationships very well, as I have always been in the presence of dominant or submissive personalities, not folks who were middle of the road. My radar picked up on dominant/submissive from the time I was in kindergarten.

Kink is different. It wasn't something I saw as part of my environment, but something that originated inside myself. I was the one tying up boys on the playground as part of our roleplaying games, and though I did not get sexual feelings from it...I got some kind of a strange rush. It felt right when they submitted to being my captive or whatever.

Funny discovery I made recently. I've used restraints on men off and on for the past eight years and it never hit me as hard as it did with my bo last week, when I had him secured to our new cross and he was...eploring his feelings with struggling a little, to see if he could get free. I can't remember anyone ever doing that before, and I got a roaring buzz just from the bondage aspect alone. This was unexpected, and I am amused with myself because I was totally expecting his testing his reaction and reveling in it...but I was not expecting my own. I am 47 for crying out loud...

I cannot remember being exposed to any kinky stuff while growing up, other than the vanilla D/s stuff I mentioned. For the life of me I cannot figure out how I managed to find sadomasochism erotic. With bondage, I cannot figure that out either, logically, but emotionally I definitely "get it" and have grown to accept this about myself easier. Some males being my servant even in nonsexual ways brings out the shark in me, and my lust wakes up. I don't think I will ever get used to that, and yeah, I find myself laughing over how I respond...to even the simplest mundane things. It's good to still be able to be surprised.

Some people use D/s relationships to heal old wounds and make old scars fade; I am one of these people. My boyfriend and I have been rewriting over some things from our past. (One of my old big bads was facial hair on a male. For this reason, I haven't made him shave the hair off his face, though for the first months it kept triggering panic attacks.) What I/we are doing is good for us.

Back to the comparison between childhood and D/s. How I was raised left me with a lot less trust than I thought I had. What I assumed was normal...was not. I hadn't realized how much I had compartmentalized some things too. It is because of the transparency that I demand from both of us in our relationship that I am making all these discoveries about the many ways I have held back small parts of myself. It is a conscious effort to work through each one of these, and his submission to me is teaching me more about trust...at the same time that I am teaching him to trust. (I am only bringing this up to show that what I do now...goes against everything I learned as a child.) I did not have a "normal" life...and D/s gives me things I missed out on the first time around.

Btw, in vanilla relationships in the past I somehow managed to skip courtship and plunged directly into long term relationships, one after the next. I am enjoying simple things that I believe every woman should take for granted...such as going to a movie theater and holding hands with her boyfriend. I had never done this before collaring bo. It was about enjoying his presence and the movie at the same time, and not about spending the entire time keeping an octopus' hands off my boobs, lol, or worrying if the guy will expect me to "pay" for the movie with sex. It's actually fun to be a woman now; I can flirt and tease and...feel liberated in a way that I never expected. (And yes, I find this vastly amusing that I feel this way at 47, yet did not feel this way when I was a young adult and confused the inability to say no with being "liberated".)



Kana -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/6/2012 7:46:43 AM)

Nope-I grew up in a hippy liberal house in the early 70's, multiple sisters, dad who believed and believes in feminism and equality, parents who were pretty open about sex and didn't make it out to be dirty or hidden or anything.
Not a goddamned thing leaned toward BDSM in my house.



Soyokaze -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/6/2012 9:19:10 AM)

I was always an odd person compared to my peers/family. My family was father lead, but nothing was ever bdsm related.



kitkat105 -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/7/2012 2:03:54 PM)

Definitely no obvious exposure to BDSM or D/s growing up. However, a loose connection could be that my Mum was a stay at home Mum, but my Dad was the 'breadwinner' and worked fulltime.

Not that I have any desire to be a Mum, let alone a SAHM!



slaveluci -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/7/2012 3:09:52 PM)

I grew up in a very traditional "male as head of household" home. My Dad worked, my Mom was a devoted wife and mother who stayed home and cooked and cleaned and was very happy in a seemingly submissive role to my Dad. I truly don't believe there was anything "kinky" about it but she did things like take his boots off for him, draw his bath, etc. because she was very happy serving and pleasing him. He, in turn, was very appreciative and affectionate and not domineering in any manner. They adored each other. I guess that just has always seemed normal and natural to me and is the way I wanted my relationships to be and they mostly have been.

As for the "kinky" part of it, I really think that was inborn. I have written on here before about remembering very clearly having "submissive" feelings toward grown men when I was as young as four or five. Nothing sexual, mind you, as I wasn't even aware of "sex" at that age. Just more of an "I want to make you happy by serving you" feeling. I can remember wanting to get them something to drink or eat or just sit close to them and things like that. The sex part of "kinky" became known to me at a later, but still young, age and has always just seemed the right fit for me. I know what "vanilla" is but don't like it much at all. I want some power and pain in my sex[;)]

I've been a submissive, slutty chick since all the way back and I wouldn't have it any other way............luci



Lucylastic -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/7/2012 3:30:31 PM)

Dad was very dominant, wanted boys, so we were treated like boys for the most part. Mum stayed at home until I was 14, then went back to nursing but my family were either nurses, cops or forces. My mum and her immediate family,My grandmother, Aunt, and my godmothers were staff nurses/matron/sisters and my godmothers are lesbians, been together since 1960. ANd still together.
We were brought up to able to stand up for ourselves, and be able to stand on our own feet, my parents were semi nudists, very liberal sex wise, and my father worked for a big print company that printed many nude magazines back in the late 60s early 70s, He would bring home the mags to "proof" and I would pinch them for a day...
My sister got caught with one at school once, selling her mates at school, looks at the boobies n buses for 10p(a dime) a pic
I liked the fantasies and erica jong, and xavier hollander articles.
At seven I was corralling the next door neighbour and tying him up to his cherry tree. Then would run up to my bedroom and watch him out of the upstairs window while he was trying to get away and I was having warm fuzzies.
His mother wouldn't let me play with him for months after that
sigh
Ive been in a very unconventional conventional marriage, he was the breadwinner(he is retired now)I stayed home until they were all in school, then did volunteering, agency nursing/crisis line , rape center, work evening shifts , so hubby was home when the kids were sleeping.
Kink came and went during riotous n slutty teen and young adult years, but didnt get into BDSM until 15 years ago. Now..... Well I run a BDSM business, I ran a munch for four years.I cant imagine not having it in my life now




Casteele -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/7/2012 8:54:54 PM)

Posted my introduction to BDSM in another thread.. but my exposure and family life.. is a different story. In truth, until just now, I'd not really even considered or thought about how it has influenced me in terms of the lifestyle. So many things to me are just "that's how it is" in my mind.

Starting with my fathers.. I have three fathers: A biological father, an adopted father, and a step-father. My biological father is/was a loser. He was a drunkard, a drug addict, and a very violent and abusive man. He was a control freak and pretty much acted like he expected the world to not only owe him a living, he expected it to bow down before him and feel honored to give him a living. Mom only stayed with him until my brother and me were old enough to tell her that we were okay with her divorcing dad, and even happy about it. We were tired of the constant beatings and shit. So mom left him, and none of us looked back. The last time I saw him was at my grandmothers funeral. Didn't say much more than "Hi, how are you?" and walked away without really hearing his answer. If I carry anything from him other than my genes, it might be my sadistic, sometimes heartless streak.

When mom met and married my adopted father, he was such a great father to us that we agreed to let him adopt us as his own, so we became adopted. I still call him dad, and the whole family on his side is a wonderful family, very loving, open, and encouraging. He was very level headed and rarely showed anger or other strong emotions--even love was somewhat tempered, even "cool.". Sometimes I do wonder if my tendency to provoke emotional outbursts from others is related to this. I still call him dad, and talk to him regularly and visit when I can.

My step-dad, the man my mom is married to now, I would say he's very much an old fashioned gentleman, and probably a little submissive towards women. He has not really had a lot of influence on my life as mom met him when I was 20 and already going my own way in life. He's a good man though, and makes my mom very happy.. and that makes me happy.. you see, because..

My mom is the hero in my life. She has had the most influence on me and how I think and feel. I give her my unconditional love and respect, and even though it's upset quite a few of the girls I've dated, I always introduce my mom to them as "The Bitch," or "The Queen B." And she'll smile and say "Damned straight I am!" In all her relationships with my fathers, there has never been any doubt that she wears the pants in the family. She's never hid anything from us kids; She's loved deeply and openly, her sex life was not advertised or anything, but neither was it hidden and secret. She's also very much together and always in charge, in many ways, very much a dominant woman. To this day, we may get smart-assed with her, put up a fight, bitch and moan, etc. But once she gives any of us that certain look, we sit right down on our hands and start saying "Yes Ma'am!"

It kind of amazes me that I am not drawn to dominant women given all that. Perhaps that is because, like another here had posted, my mom was very careful to encourage me to make my own choices, and did not try to force me to adopt her ideas and views. She'd let me know what she thought, then give me the information I needed to make my own decisions and form my own opinions. In contrast, she's always telling my older brother exactly what he should think and do. I asked her why once, and she explained why, but that's neither here nor there for this topic. But I do find it interesting how even in the same family environment, two siblings can be so totally different than each other.

I do not know how much this has influenced my life in BDSM/kink, as I had not thought about it too deeply before. Although I would say almost none directly, as things BDSM/Kink related were not really a normal part of our lives, yet a whole hell of a lot indirectly as I'm sure it has shaped parts of my personality and the things I want and enjoy. But now, reading some of the other peoples stories, I am wondering why I am the way I am, like what I like, etc. I identify more with my mom than any of my dads, and I have complete love and respect for her, and she's clearly dominant--So why am I not a submissive male? Why do I feel that any woman I accept in a relationship needs to be very submissive and serve me?

Guess it's going to be a long night staring at the ceiling and thinking. Whee.




Clickofheels -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/7/2012 9:53:33 PM)

Isn't it interesting how, even though our lives growing up may be anywhere from opposite ends of the spectrum to cookie-cutter, one common thread can stitch us together?

Thank you for your stories. I respect each of you for sharing them! (Smiles)



slaveluci -> RE: No. 2 Thread of a Different Color (1/8/2012 8:27:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

At seven I was corralling the next door neighbour and tying him up to his cherry tree. Then would run up to my bedroom and watch him out of the upstairs window while he was trying to get away and I was having warm fuzzies.

Cute. Master has told me a similiar story except that He was the one doing the tying up. He was about 7 or 8 and, in his little neighborhood gang of kids, there was one girl. She let him tie her to a tree everytime they were playing "Cowboys and Indians" or something similar. He remembers it with delight. I wonder if she grew up to be "kinky" like He did? [;)]

luci



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