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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 4:06:02 PM

Lockit

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I think rejection can be hurtful period, but I think the real pain of rejection comes from within us... it becomes a wound and can become a way of life in a sense. At least that is what I have seen... I think. lol

I need coffee...

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 4:10:56 PM

FrostedFlake

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From: Centralia, Washington
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quote:

Lady Hib

FrostedFlake, here is an example of what can happen: you've chatted with a nice man on the other side on and off for ages, he's a grown up person with a kid and all, so has been around the block. You write and say, "How about coffee?" His response:' "Are you asking me out??"

Poor fellow has Hoof-n-mouth. A common malady. Often the result of 'surprise'. Do you drive a stick? Ever grabbed fourth when looking for second? It's kinda like that, it takes you out of the powerband and you go nowhere. This is a good time to clutch, shift, and try again. he didn't say, "No." He said, " Hmdgl?"

Coffee is about the lowest pressure invitation I can think of. It is like, a half hour or so of quiet conversation. The invite immediately conveys interest. The break between invite and gabfest allows a man to think things through. (so as to avoid being stupid). The atmosphere in a coffeeshop enforces good manners. Unlike a cocktail lounge, for instance. Coffee is not alcohol, it is about being alert rather than about lowering one inhibitions. It is the middle of the afternoon, instead of late in the evening, so one is not going to bed, next, so that cannot be implied. The reason I point at the coffeeshop is :

1/ An aggressive woman is often seen as one who wants 'it', NOW. And that is not the case. Or is it?
2/ A typical fellow, assuming the invitation is given to a guy who looks to good to let pass unmolested, is not so very likely to be thrilled by the things which haunt my mind.
3/ Even a fellow as twisted as myself may be quite turned off by some things you consider indispensable. Conversely, the fellow in question may himself have, rather, distasteful, hopes.

All of these things are such that beating around the bush may not be the best policy. And while it might seem painfully obvious and even graceless it need not be so. What is needed, I think, is to ascertain compatibility. This is different than in a vanilla dating situation, where the assumptions are much easier to make ...correctly.

Moving on to address the topic of the thread, seduction is largely about attention. I am tempted to stop right there. But I am also tempted to use a signature line borrowed from Poise. "She gathered up all that was within herself into a smile and gave it to him, making a profound promise of herself." Poise is a very exciting woman who knows seduction well. I can tell this much from ...way ...over ...here. I hope she will contribute to this thread. Between these two extremes lie a great deal of territory. But I think all of it centers on paying attention. In a way that conveys to a man that he is interesting.

quote:

Akasha

I don't think submissive men necessarily want to be pursued traditionally, they have a desire to please or be an object of desire. I know it sounds complicated but that's how it at least sorts itself out in my head.

As ridicules as it may be for a straight man to want to be a sex object...

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Post #: 22

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 4:12:44 PM

BootyBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Thank you Bootyboy! That was beautiful! A good mix of the power/enhancement/enjoyment of both!

Thanks Lockit, I wish it happened like that all the time, but it doesn't. That time I was just lucky and the relationship didn't even last all that long. Oh well. (sigh)

But I loved her creativity and confidence and I think that the same thing can certainly translate into other seductions. But, I will say that from a sub male perspective, I find that my seduction from a Dominant woman comes from another place.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 23

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 4:16:52 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I don't enter into approaching someone on a whim. It's srs bsns, and I invest a lot of thought and energy into my choice. So, it's a big deal to get blown off. Sometimes I try again, it depends on how close the friendship was...

Abandonment is a big issue for me, it's one of those Life things. So, I try to protect myself.

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 5:00:25 PM

Clickofheels

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First of all, I enjoy being a woman very, very much. I enjoy dressing femininely, wearing lingerie and stockings, and high-heeled shoes. I take care of myself, and eat healthy. Do I use that to my advantage when it comes to scening, teasing, and/or seduction? Of course I do! (Smiles)

As for the word "rejection?" I think it should be outlawed from being anywhere near synonymous with relationships!!!

If we were all meant to be interesting to everyone else, then we would have the exact same ideas, backgrounds, dreams, ambitions, and lifestyles as everyone.
How incredibly boring that would be!
Differences in people are good. They make life interesting, open the doors to discovery, and enrich us. They teach us new things, they help us appreciate more.
So when someone says "I'm not interested," it needn't be interpreted as some personal attack nor a measure of your self worth. It just means things that interest you are not things that interest them. And that's ok.

Life is a chance, but it's also a place of golden opportunities!

Clickofheels

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Post #: 25

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 6:26:40 PM

seekingOwnertoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

First of all, I enjoy being a woman very, very much. I enjoy dressing femininely, wearing lingerie and stockings, and high-heeled shoes. I take care of myself, and eat healthy. Do I use that to my advantage when it comes to scening, teasing, and/or seduction? Of course I do! (Smiles)

As well You should!

And of course W/we all will not be interesting to everyone else ....

Myself, I have always approached courting and seduction as a dance that initially begins to establish mutual interest ... before developing into involvement enough to be hurt (rejection) ...

Where as it seems others have a different approach, such as Lady Hib ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I don't enter into approaching someone on a whim. It's srs bsns, and I invest a lot of thought and energy into my choice.

I just don't initially put a lot of serious thought into whom I am dancing the dance with ... until i feel W/we have established real mutual interest.

Then I start putting real thought into it.

Not sure I said any of this right ... but I feel I am seeing a difference in approach ... between different people ...

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 1/9/2012 6:29:21 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 7:58:48 PM

FrostedFlake

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quote:

SeekingOwnerToo

Myself, I have always approached courting and seduction as a dance that initially begins to establish mutual interest ... before developing into involvement enough to be hurt (rejection) ...

Where as it seems others have a different approach, such as Lady Hib ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I don't enter into approaching someone on a whim. It's srs bsns, and I invest a lot of thought and energy into my choice.

I just don't initially put a lot of serious thought into whom I am dancing the dance with ... until i feel W/we have established real mutual interest.

Then I start putting real thought into it.

Radically different approach. It seems everyone is different, has a different style, for different reasons.

I am near Lady Hibiscus on this point. I will not approach a lady, hat in hand, unless I feel something that makes it worth taking the very high risk of rejection. This might be taken to mean I aim for women I cannot hope to please, what with my limited means and all. And it might be so. I look through the other end of the telescope, however, and see that few are the ladies who would please me on an ongoing basis. I do my best to not bother the other ladies for their favor, because winning one of them would be a tradgedy for me. And for her. Still, the added importance of each request makes the denial of it more important also. And the pain of it all, oh, the pain, is quite sufficient, thank you very much. I suspect if I were the sort to ask every lady in the room, each individual rejection would hurt much less, but the number of them would add up to have the same effect.

So, I guess I should stick with my style, and only ask women who really interest me. Seeing as I am damned either way. I hold no hope this might improve my reputation with those I ask (how would they know?), but do rely on not winning the affections of she for whom I will soon gnaw my arm off to quietly escape (and winning the reputation that goes with).

ETA : a word.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 1/9/2012 8:01:31 PM >

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 8:21:15 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I don't want to seem like I don't date casually, I have little phases where I do, and I am big on the coffee. In order to know where to focus, I have to start somewhere, right? I cast a wide net, and if nothing comes of it but a pleasant conversation, no harm, no foul.

Real pursuit, that's serious, not part of a "getting to know you" phase, or a bid for a casual lay. If I just want sex, I ask. Amazingly effective technique!

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 8:46:01 PM

FrostedFlake

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I stand corrected. Thank you ma'am.

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"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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Post #: 29

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 8:49:27 PM

LadyHibiscus

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? I'm agreeing with you, FF...

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 8:56:32 PM

FrostedFlake

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It turns out that I am further over there than you are, and didn't think so a moment ago.

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Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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Post #: 31

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 9:04:20 PM

LadyHibiscus

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Oh, okay! So how do you decide that she's the one you want without an initial conversation?

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/9/2012 10:59:28 PM

FrostedFlake

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From: Centralia, Washington
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I didn't say and hope not to have implied that I don't talk to women. I do. About as often as I talk to men. I said I don't ask them for their favor unless I feel a strong draw, sufficient to make it worth the slam-dunk that usually occurs. And THEN I have what you are referring to as, 'the initial conversation'. I never, strike that, seldom make a bid for a casual lay, because 1/ yeah right, and 2/ when it does work it very often doesn't (Oh, the stories I won't tell!). As for simply asking for sex, the expression is 'shot down in flames'. And deservedly, when a man gives the impression he thinks he is talking to Ms. Rightnow. I view this stuff as trolling. And so do a lot of women. And many of them are not thinking of fishing. They are thinking of the kind that jump from under bridges. I have enough troubles with giving that impression.

Online is different, of course, where one is allowed, even expected to be forward about ones interests. In the real world one must rely on subtleties to guesstimate the likelihood a lady is interested in or receptive to the outre'. This is one of the things I consider. It is very important to me. There are also hints to be had about whether or not she likes me and whether it is little or more. There is also whether she is already seeing someone. Not gonna go there. There is also what I think of the way she looks and carries herself. And there are other things, less easily scribbled down. Does she think? Stand up for what she thinks? What are her politics? Does she try to help others? Etcetera. In short, is she someone I think I would like to have breakfast with in ten years?

I have reasons to be circumspect. I have seen, and participated in, some wildly fucked up shit. I have seen the opposite side of the coin also. One fellow I know has two sons who exist, it is my sincere belief, to keep him roped into an otherwise sexless marriage. No thank you, I would really rather not, even if it IS femdom. The counter example is a couple so well matched that the easy way to say it is, he rides bikes and she runs marathons. Everything else they do together. If I ever meet a lady that can share with me what lies between them, that will be the day I do not want to be spending with Ms. Rightnow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJkbDcmmJq8

Side note. In the clip, Janet doesn't know what she is doing with her right hand. She just does it. How great is that?

ETA : a couple words

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 1/9/2012 11:52:26 PM >

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Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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Post #: 33

RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 9:11:00 AM

Lockit

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Okay, I have had half a cup of coffee and yes, I am getting a headache, but damn if I am not getting some of this. How can some boys exist to keep a man roped into a sexless marriage? What the hell did they do to cause that? lol If there is a sexless marriage, that would be between the married adults and believe me... there are other options. We can't blame the children we bring into this for what we got into and now feel we must stay in. Many survive divorce if things are that bad and there are ways to properly raise children even with a difficult ex. where we don't have to blame the children for the fucked up mess we got into.

I also find exception to where online is different than in person when it comes to expressing ones interests. Timing is everything wherever you are. In sexual interests, it is best to error on the side of respect and not treat people like that is all you are interested in. I know lots of guys getting them some... and quite often very quickly and all it takes is some smooth talking. Of course that smooth talk won't work for everyone or rather... with everyone, but they are successful, so its working with someone.

Where there is a will, there is a way for the creative person that really wants something. It may not happen within a certain time or with just anyone but... we have to be our own advocate and be lucky sometimes. We each may have things that limit us somehow... I know I do... but I can still find someone if I am lucky enough to meet up with just the right one that is a match for me. I cannot blame anything but circumstance and myself if I am not getting anywhere. Sure I can beat on some troll types whether they be online or off... and the focus of many who just want some action and not what I want, but then that too is partly my attitude or neediness that could play a part in my bitch about it all.

You take what is and do the best you can. You get creative, learn to refine things and just get on with it or you don't. If you have a hard time reading people or conversation... maybe some fine tuning might be in order. If you can't get when someone likes you or not... keep talking... if you still can't tell... ask damn it. If you are afraid of rejection you are surely not going to find a successful acceptance. I am not saying just get over it. I know there are some real wounds that can really mess up your game, but that fear is hindering you, not the trolls or the games or anything else. I would seek some help from a friend, counselor or anywhere I could find it rather than stay stuck if I didn't want to be stuck. Some get more comfortable within the stuck or the pain and believe me there are times I have had to deal with all of this. Still, you have to find a way to heal and overcome... or stay where you are and hope someone comes knocking on your door to save you from your life or self. That most likely isn't going to happen. You do what you can and hope that you get lucky to some degree... but if rejection or the fear of it is keeping you back and that is the only reason... you may want to find some way to help yourself with this painful place you are in.

Stop finding the reasons you can't have happiness and find the reasons you deserve it and then go out there and find what you want. You may not always get what you want... but if you are fearful of rejection, have wounds or fear of any kind that doesn't come from a real physical danger... then you may need to start with your own emotional health and healing. Once we are not hindered by our own restrictions... reading people objectively becomes a lot easier.

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 9:17:30 AM

LadyHibiscus

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This is not a terribly seductive thread.

I WANT HELPFUL HINTS!! What WORKS with you persnickety menz?

When I was having sex I remember it as being easy enough to get...so that is not what I mean. NSA afternoons are a thing of the past for me. This is different!

SPILL!!

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 9:21:02 AM

Lockit

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I agree this thread is hardly about seduction... but what good is seduction if people aren't reading it unless you hit them over the head with a bat and drag them to your cave? lol

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 9:22:10 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I agree this thread is hardly about seduction... but what good is seduction if people aren't reading it unless you hit them over the head with a bat and drag them to your cave? lol

Shhh!! That is a SEEEKRIT!!

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 10:48:27 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I didn't say and hope not to have implied that I don't talk to women. I do.

Really? What's it like?

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 10:49:28 AM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I didn't say and hope not to have implied that I don't talk to women. I do.

Really? What's it like?

Remind me to bite you really, really hard.

Well, you won't need to remind me.

eta: ESP works, I have Monty Python on my Pandora

< Message edited by LadyHibiscus -- 1/10/2012 10:50:03 AM >

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RE: The Object of Desire - 1/10/2012 12:12:36 PM

Ninebelowzero

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Mmmmmmmm Lockits cave mmmmmmmmmmmmm nice...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I agree this thread is hardly about seduction... but what good is seduction if people aren't reading it unless you hit them over the head with a bat and drag them to your cave? lol

Shhh!! That is a SEEEKRIT!!

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Post #: 40

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