RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 1:41:56 PM)

Have you really not been here that long? The threads whining about fakes and scammers are a weekly affair.



Dysonskeep -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 1:47:56 PM)

I'm well aware of the whining about fakes and scammers. I also assume that it's been discussed here on a regular basis. Also, there are even websites dedicated to the outing of fakes and scammers on CM. The purpose of my thread was to encourage people to get beyond the fakes and scammers, that there are also real and genuine people on CM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Have you really not been here that long? The threads whining about fakes and scammers are a weekly affair.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 1:49:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

You know I read threads like this and I'm somewhat surprised I haven't seen threads on security questions. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

I don't have problems with people being fake, lying to me, trying to deceive me, scam me or whatever. Ask me to go on webcam and I'll tell you to go get knotted.

Seriously.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, or old fashioned, but my techniques haven't changed that much since the 1980's when there weren't any webcams, cellphones, or the Internet.

I use my noggin, give people the benefit of the doubt, take people at face value, and if it doesn't work out I don't throw an almighty wobbly like an adult three year old - I just deal with it.

Maybe the problem isn't all the liars and the fakes, maybe the problem is people taking themselves too damn seriously and expecting everything on demand as if it's there on a Burger King menu.


Stella, that's all well and good but, I think there is a point, here.

There is a large number of the inter-web community that doesn't have any problem with lying to people. What they probably don't realize is that they are not only doing some (minor amount, probably) of emotional "damage" but they are wasting other peoples' time. That is egregious.

I understand what you're saying. I agree especially with:
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
I use my noggin, give people the benefit of the doubt, take people at face value, and if it doesn't work out I don't throw an almighty wobbly like an adult three year old - I just deal with it.


But, there are times when we do become emotionally invested. When this occurs and then, we find out that we've been lied to, it makes it that much worse.

I can walk away from a situation because it "just didn't work out" but to give trust (which I do. I don't come from the negative end of it, like many do) and to have that trust betrayed and defecated upon is a whole nother issue.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



Lockit -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 2:05:07 PM)

People lie. They lie online and they lie in person. Anytime we get involved with anyone, wherever we are, we take a risk of someone lying to us. It isn't fun... and its happened to most of us I am sure. Our best asset is ourselves. There is no sure fire way to combat getting hurt from liars.

Is it callous to say... oh well... it happens... get used to it or move on or... it happens? It may sound callous and it may sound as if we don't care, but I think what we don't care about is people trying to educate adults when they really don't have that sure fire way to know a liar when we meet up with one and they wish to teach some real elementary stuff as if it is some amazing revelation. Seeing someone on cam even with a note saying whatever is no proof or anything other than it might be the person and then it might be a team of scammers that loop the cam, have a lady or man on the team that assists them or hell... they had a week end vacation from a nut house. You just can't guarantee anything.

You take a high school kid... tell me most of them don't know about a lot of this. Take a twenty something and tell me they don't know a lot of this. If they are out there... and some of them are running some of the best scams and hack jobs around... and they don't know... maybe it is time to learn that lesson. Life isn't always fun and people aren't always what they appear to be and do want to use you any chance they get. When you have thirty somethings or even older... they are way passed that lesson or should be.

Hell, I had a husband of four years that was ever so faithful... and then... and then... some strange came upon him and took advantage of him... the poor dear. It happens... We would be better off learning to set boundaries for ourselves, not believing in something too good to believe always being what it seems, getting something for nothing and learning how to not get too invested before we know some things and even then... somebody is still going to be smart enough or stupid enough to get you. Life!... that thing that gets you, whether you were looking or not...



lizi -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 3:42:06 PM)

I get that people like to help each other out and also that they also like to pass on warnings for things that they think are important.
Every time this subject comes up I'd like to say....what's your solution for people that lie on the internet? Is there one? If you put all your trust in verification methods then when someone figures out how to bypass those you are still screwed. Isn't it better to just go forth cautiously and develop some internal guides for the process instead? Because if someone comes up with the required pictures and dates, or gets their friend to cam for them, then you might buy that as truth when it isn't- after all it passed your 'test'. I think verifications give people a false sense of security, they're still vulnerable and are now not using their common sense, but are instead putting faith in something that can be cheated.

So people get invested in things and turn away from this site...it's no different from any other site or any other area of life. These disillusioned people would have to leave all of their interactions with other humans behind if they don't want to deal with insincerity. It's gonna happen no matter where we are. Do you all believe every commercial you see? Or think the miracle weight loss ads in magazines really work? Or think that the polite grocery checker secretly wants your body because he/she always says hello? One of the first things we learn is to be informed, discerning, and skeptical in order to keep ourselves safe -it's a way to survive. Babies learn to look at what's going into their mouths and make sure it's not the dreaded peas, which then end up all over their bib instead. When you sneak the peas past their notice and they eat it, those cute little babies watch every spoonful thereafter like a hawk, they're not falling for that twice! If we're smart we learn that not everything we're presented with is what we think it is, we learn to look underneath.

Yeah, it stinks when our time and feelings are wasted. Is there a way to really safeguard that from happening? Human beings go forth to procure things for themselves...it may not match up with what you have in mind. Which isn't going to stop others from trying to get what they want or need. That might not be very nice, human beings can be nasty, selfish, creatures sometimes. Things can be faked, people are smart, they figure this shit out. Lying is a set in stone fact of life. If you don't develop any filters for it then you're screwed.

Sure there is a lot of complaining and frustration, I think that's due to unrealistic expectations more than anything else and the fault for those lie with the one expecting the unrealistic things.



poise -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 3:52:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Imo the problem is not whether someone is fake or not, it's making someone up in your
head and expecting that when/if you meet them.



This is really ringing the bell for me on why the term fake is most often put to use.
While I won't deny that others have had experiences where people weren't who they
presented themselves to be, it boggles my mind that it could be in such a high rate of
occurrence that every 5th profile makes mention of it.

I also think, similar to that silly slogan many used to have on their profile about the University
of Sydney, many people will hop on the bandwagon simply because it seems the popular thing to do.

It's also entirely possible that the profile is using reverse psychology by complaining of the fakes, when
in fact they are actually a fake themselves.

And lastly, I really really like the serious look in Michaels picture.



lizi -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise


And lastly, I really really like the serious look in Michaels picture.


Yeah, me too. It makes me kind of quivery and like I want to sigh.
Sigh.



poise -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:01:29 PM)

I usually pause a few beats, and then sigh.

.

..

.

sigh



DaddySatyr -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:04:33 PM)

You ladies are very sweet to say that. I swear, I think I may be on the verge of blushing.



seababy -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:07:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise


And lastly, I really really like the serious look in Michaels picture.


Yeah, me too. It makes me kind of quivery and like I want to sigh.
Sigh.



Yep its hot.
Did your mail increase after posting that pic Michael?

 I might just send him some HNG mail now.

To the OP. If that works for you thats great.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:11:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy
Yep its hot.
Did your mail increase after posting that pic Michael?


I don't think I even have that one on the other side and no one that has written me, here has ever referenced this photo. There does seem to be a big deal about my quasi-oriental (Grandma was a full-blooded Cherokee) eyes.

Again, you ladies are making me squirm. I am going to have to replace this avatar with a photo of my ex M-I-L, wearing a hairnet and curlers. LOL



Peace and comfort,



Michael



MissImmortalPain -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:21:58 PM)

Okay, I can run with this, I just want to know a couple of things. How do you tell a persons age, weight, or gender by way of voice chat? I want to know because I know more than a few men that sound very female. I would also like to know how you would do this via web cam if their face is cover and they are fully clothed? Because I also know a few trannys that look very female from the neck down. I would, just or your own knowledge, like to let you know that picture with words thing can be faked(every heard of photo shop?)

*And* for no other reason than I can I would like to point out that even though I am be the last person on the planet to ever say this...I don't have a cell phone. I hate the phone so I'm not about to carry one around with me.

*oh and before I forget* A lot of those folks bitching about fakes are themself fake and looking for someone stupid enough to feel sorry for them.

Thanks or the heads up on the many things that will not work to prove who/what someone is online.



poise -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:26:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




Again, you ladies are making me squirm.



I'd say that makes us even, no? [8D]



agirl -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 4:57:24 PM)

I'm happy to meet up for lunch, dinner, picnic, walk on a hill, fly a kite, paddle in a river....you name it.....(not so much breakfast as I'm a tardy riser).

I'm happy to verify that *I* am the typer, the voice on the phone, in person......but beyond that, they'll have to be content with the fact that I'm unlikely to share my herb garden with any old plod.

Most people are that way.

agirl






NuevaVida -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 5:17:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Imo the problem is not whether someone is fake or not, it's making someone up in your
head and expecting that when/if you meet them.


Quite true!  I've done it myself, in the past.  As my mother once put it, "It's not that they lied to you, it's that you lied to yourself by knowing they were lies but choosing to believe them."  Go figure.

With the Mister & I, there was none of that verification stuff.  We CMailed a bit, then we talked on the phone for a bit, then he sent a picture, then I sent a picture, then we met for dinner, and then we met for dinner again.  By then two months had gone by and we had formed an obvious connection with each other, and here we are almost 3 years later. 

Because of what we had both experienced in the past, we were both acutely aware that we might be receiving lies from the other, and we were both a bit guarded at first.  But over time, simply spending time together - he showed me who he was and I showed him who I was, and at some point we needed to both decide to trust the other person.

There was no exchanging of drivers license numbers or SSN, or holding up newspapers or anything of the like, although he did give me his business card at our first dinner together.  He asked for mine and I didn't have one, but I gave him my work email and number, and he emailed me there a couple of days later to say hello - probably as a confirmation.

One thing he did do before we met in person, was to give me his home address and tell me to send him a post card with anything I wanted written on it, presumably to give me confidence that he did, in fact, live alone. He also wanted me to pick a night at random and call him in the middle of the night.  I laughed, but kind of liked the concept.  I invited him to do the same, but he said he felt no need.

We didn't come at each other suspiciously, though. I think it may have changed our course if we did.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 5:20:46 PM)

the people who have lied as easy as breathing were absolutely who they said they were...



agirl -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 5:47:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Imo the problem is not whether someone is fake or not, it's making someone up in your
head and expecting that when/if you meet them.



With the Mister & I, there was none of that verification stuff.  We CMailed a bit, then we talked on the phone for a bit, then he sent a picture, then I sent a picture, then we met for dinner, and then we met for dinner again.  By then two months had gone by and we had formed an obvious connection with each other, and here we are almost 3 years later. 

Because of what we had both experienced in the past, we were both acutely aware that we might be receiving lies from the other, and we were both a bit guarded at first.  But over time, simply spending time together - he showed me who he was and I showed him who I was, and at some point we needed to both decide to trust the other person.

There was no exchanging of drivers license numbers or SSN, or holding up newspapers or anything of the like, although he did give me his business card at our first dinner together.  He asked for mine and I didn't have one, but I gave him my work email and number, and he emailed me there a couple of days later to say hello - probably as a confirmation.

One thing he did do before we met in person, was to give me his home address and tell me to send him a post card with anything I wanted written on it, presumably to give me confidence that he did, in fact, live alone. He also wanted me to pick a night at random and call him in the middle of the night.  I laughed, but kind of liked the concept.  I invited him to do the same, but he said he felt no need.

We didn't come at each other suspiciously, though. I think it may have changed our course if we did.



You seem to have done the verifying stuff...whether or not you felt you needed to or not. You just invited it beforehand.

He invited you to check him out, call him at random, send the postcard. You declined his moves.

None of the things you did could replace the DL or SSN........ they were simply *assurance -givers*. IE...I live here and I'm not married.

The main thrust really was that you both went out of your way to show/share your trust but it still really relied on you already having a basic trust thing going on.

agirl




OsideGirl -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 6:06:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

There are a few simple things one can do to check the sincerity of a potential slave/sub. After some initial period, if someone is not willing to verify that they are vaguely who they purport to be, for example traits like their sex, age, weight, by some anonymous means such as a voice chat, or going on cam clothed while hiding their face (again they don’t have to worry about being identified this way), then more than likely they are not who they say they are. Another simple means is to have them take a photo while holding a sheet with your name on it, or some other message you tell them. If they say that they don’t have a cam or mic or a digital camera (which is in almost every cell phone), then red flags should go off.



Honestly, if someone expects me to prove I'm me....then red flags go off. Personally, I'd tell ya to fuck off just like I told all the other people that think I should have to prove I'm genuine.



agirl -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 6:22:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

There are a few simple things one can do to check the sincerity of a potential slave/sub. After some initial period, if someone is not willing to verify that they are vaguely who they purport to be, for example traits like their sex, age, weight, by some anonymous means such as a voice chat, or going on cam clothed while hiding their face (again they don’t have to worry about being identified this way), then more than likely they are not who they say they are. Another simple means is to have them take a photo while holding a sheet with your name on it, or some other message you tell them. If they say that they don’t have a cam or mic or a digital camera (which is in almost every cell phone), then red flags should go off.



Honestly, if someone expects me to prove I'm me....then red flags go off. Personally, I'd tell ya to fuck off just like I told all the other people that think I should have to prove I'm genuine.


I am quite content to *prove* I'm *me*....if that means meeting me. Why not?.

I probably wouldn't give a rat's arse if someone in the USA declared they wanted me to *prove* that I'm who I am. The simple truth is that you can't.

agirl



MastersPetgirl -> RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat (1/10/2012 7:34:58 PM)

Interesting posts! I am new on CM and I wonder what is meant by fake...am I fake because I am not into everything the lifestyle has to offer? I am here to learn, explore and grow. I hope that doesn't make me fake. Or maybe I'm not fake because I haven't lied.

MPG



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