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RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 7:52:34 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

There are a few simple things one can do to check the sincerity of a potential slave/sub. After some initial period, if someone is not willing to verify that they are vaguely who they purport to be, for example traits like their sex, age, weight, by some anonymous means such as a voice chat, or going on cam clothed while hiding their face (again they don’t have to worry about being identified this way), then more than likely they are not who they say they are. Another simple means is to have them take a photo while holding a sheet with your name on it, or some other message you tell them. If they say that they don’t have a cam or mic or a digital camera (which is in almost every cell phone), then red flags should go off.



Honestly, if someone expects me to prove I'm me....then red flags go off. Personally, I'd tell ya to fuck off just like I told all the other people that think I should have to prove I'm genuine.


I am quite content to *prove* I'm *me*....if that means meeting me. Why not?.

I probably wouldn't give a rat's arse if someone in the USA declared they wanted me to *prove* that I'm who I am. The simple truth is that you can't.

agirl

I had no problem meeting people. It was the people that wanted me to jump through hoops to prove I'm female before they would even get to that point. Quite honestly if someone online was demanding that I take special photos, etc, it wasn't going to happen. I shouldn't have to prove I'm who I say just to hold a conversation on the internet.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 8:01:25 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

You seem to have done the verifying stuff...whether or not you felt you needed to or not. You just invited it beforehand.

He invited you to check him out, call him at random, send the postcard. You declined his moves.

None of the things you did could replace the DL or SSN........ they were simply *assurance -givers*. IE...I live here and I'm not married.

The main thrust really was that you both went out of your way to show/share your trust but it still really relied on you already having a basic trust thing going on.

agirl



You're right about the verification stuff, and I thought about it after I posted. So yeah, we kind of did do it, just perhaps not in such a formalized way, like a pic holding a newspaper, proving we're the sex we are on Skype, that sort of thing.  I guess we just had a different style - one that felt more natural to both of us, toward evolving this relationship.

But you're right - they were assurance-givers, to a point.  I mean, if I were really jaded, how would I know he wasn't a married guy with a sex-pad or something, yanno?  We were guarded, but not jaded/cynical (well, not too much lol).  And if anything, we spent more energy showing the other we trusted, rather than we did not trust.

But then there was 2 months of talking before we actually met.  We had a pretty good feel for each other by then, based on the things we had shared with each other.

Everyone has their own process, I suppose.  This one is what worked for us.


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(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 9:16:15 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MastersPetgirl

Interesting posts! I am new on CM and I wonder what is meant by fake...am I fake because I am not into everything the lifestyle has to offer? I am here to learn, explore and grow. I hope that doesn't make me fake. Or maybe I'm not fake because I haven't lied.

MPG


Actually this is a good question - what is meant by fake - it's not actually clear when you're new what people mean by saying that. I remember being confused by it too. In general, calling others a fake is done when you didn't have some expectation met, or you assume everyone is using the same definition for something that you do.

Examples:  A woman doesn't want to meet you asap after you send her an email - fake. A "Dom" doesn't act like an arrogant asshole in your dealings with him, he actually is polite - fake. A slave doesn't automatically accept you as their Master immediately - fake, everyone knows slaves don't get choices. I can't find a partner to do whatever it is that i want to do - fake. Someone doesn't want 24/7 enslavement - fake.

People who are continually disappointed in their search to find whatever it is that they want, have to blame something since they can't blame themselves, so they call fake. One other aspect is immediate fulfillment. When that doesn't happen the F word gets tossed around a lot too, because people once again can't face up to the fact that they have unreal expectations and that's on them. Basically no one ever wants to blame themselves for anything, it's always those other, fake, people that are to blame.

(in reply to MastersPetgirl)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 9:33:44 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

huh....I met Master, sight unseen. Never saw a photo other than a far away blurry pic that told me nothing really and yet here we are six years later.

Ya know I simply talked to him, got to know him, met him with absolutely no expectations except a mini vacation whether he decided to show up or not, whether he turned out to be who he said he was or not.

Imo the problem is not whether someone is fake or not, it's making someone up in your head and expecting that when/if you meet them.

If you mean people create a fantasy sometimes a bit elaborate before they meet and when it most often doesn't go that way and they are unhappy with the person...you would be correct. They themselves often precipitate their own downfall.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 9:36:41 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		That's exactly what I mean. 

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 10:12:03 PM   
SilverBoat


Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, the definition of "F/fake" seems at least rather broad, and sometimes beyond subjective.

At one cusp (not one end or the other. because it's a multipolar concept), it's the predators of various sorts, who deliberately falsify their profiles and posts, with intent to deceive the victims of their mentally or physically abusive schemes.

At another cusp, it's the desperate, who don't intend harm to others, but mispresent themselves somewhat due to fears that their physique, experience, objectives, etc will prevent them from getting involved in the relationships they want.

At yet another cusp, it's possibly the ignorant, who don't really grasp what who they are, what they want, and/or why that's important, and whose mistakes (or being mistaken by others) might have no underlying intent to deceive, yet get labelled as 'fake.'

And at yet another cusp (as lizi mentioned), there's the accusation of "fake" sometimes levelled, reasonably or not, by people whose expectations weren't met, possibly due to combinations or permutations of the first three cusps mentioned or others.

I think the OP will eventually encounter all of those, and more. The salient point might be recognizing what relationship exists and is expected with the not-fake or fake real-person/screen-name; for arguing partisan politics sometimes whether the other person is fake hardly seems important, for finding long-term kink-partner relationships, the 'reality' of the person vs what they profile/post could be quite critical.

SB

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 11:02:32 PM   
shylilbear


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: offline 		I got called a fake one time simply because I wouldn't move halfway across country to be with a couple that were very reluctant to tell me anything about themselves, or what would be going on after I got there. If not buying into their b/s makes me a flake then I'm perfectly happy with that label. At least I'm a flake that's still alive and in one piece.

(in reply to SilverBoat)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 11:42:24 PM   
Casteele


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline 		Regarding "Fake" and the last couple of posts.. Whenever someone tosses the word "fake" out there, I've recently begun to use a little more critical thinking. Is the context and reasons plainly obvious? If not, does the person give a valid and good reason for the claim? And here's where the critical thinking really plays a part..

The scenario:
"John" calls "Jane" a fake. When asked why John thinks Jane is a fake, he states that she misled him by claiming that she was interested in meeting up for a casual fling/ONS, but when he took her up on the offer and asked her where and what time to meet up, she declined and stopped speaking to him.

So, is Jane a fake? I am willing to bet that if this happened elsewhere without the suspicious mindset already present in a thread and question like this, a lot of people would sympathize with poor John at getting so obviously trolled by this fake hussy named Jane. But the truth is that we don't have enough information to know for certain. We lack any credible evidence, and honestly, only have John's account of what happened. But let's give John the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't just make it up to make Jane look bad, that he's giving an honest account of what happened. Now, can we say Jane is fake?

No, we still cannot. We still only have John's one-sided perception of what really happened. We do not know the exact exchange of words, what was said, how it was said, and we do not know what went on in either John or Jane's minds. For all we know, John could have misinterpreted something Jane said because he really, really wanted to believe that he was going to get lucky tonight. So in his eyes, she's the fake because he made an expectation of her that may or may not have been reasonable and/or true. But it could also be simply that he's the one who misled himself, and once she realized this and what he was all about and wanted, she backed out before it got any worse.

So let's say Jane came on and said that yes, she told him she was interested in a casual fling, but when it came down to actually following through and doing it, she realized she wasn't ready or didn't really want to, and tried to back out of it. Now, this time.. We still cannot call Jane a fake with absolute certainty :-P Not unless she's shown a pattern of doing this same thing. People make mistakes, they do stupid things, they can sometimes be immature and irresponsible, and they change their minds.

One bit of advice I see quite often here is that the women here are human beings, and should be treated as such, etc etc. Truth is, just about every one here is, even the "fakes", misfits, socially inept, and yes, even those horrible people we see that come here and say "Me Dom, you slave, you get naked, me screw you, everyone happy" are still human beings behind the screen.

Just some of the random thoughts I had while reading things. What you take from it or how you interpret it is up to you.

(For myself, I am seeing just how ugly I can be when I do the same things, and hope I can learn to become a better person.)

< Message edited by Casteele -- 1/10/2012 11:46:18 PM >

(in reply to SilverBoat)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/10/2012 11:46:43 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

For all of you who are tired of dealing with fakes and con artists...


Dyson, thanks for that public service announcement. I wonder if you might want to post about your positive experience in the...ummm...'positive experience' section? Many of us like to go there for that 'little ray of sunshine'.

Whiners and complainers have the option to 1) post a bitch-fest about fakes on their profiles, journals, and/or the boards or 2) put equal effort into figuring out why they are connecting with so many fakes and fix the problem (themselves, not said 'fakes'). I vote for option 2.

Seriously, I'm glad you found someone and you're happy together. Many CMers found their partner(s) here, myself included.

(in reply to Dysonskeep)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 2:31:04 AM   
fragilepieces


Posts: 416
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		Reality check here Dyson---there are con artists, fakes, scammers and liars in every walk of life so I hope while you are so kindly being safety police on this site you also posted a similar post on every site you belong to...for christ sakes we would never want those 'normal' folks over at E-harmony or Christian mingle not knowing that even in their world they could get scammed, conned or lied to.

Secondly what you consider fake and what others consider fake are probably miles apart....personally when I think 'fake' liar scammer or con artist never comes to mind maybe because I am not so desperate that I weed them out before I even respond to their email or profile...when I think 'fake' I think of someone so caught up in the whole BDSM lifestyle that their feet never touch earth---I need someone grounded that does not eat, breath, speak and live the lifestyle every second. With that said---I am SO happy that I am less than JUST A SUBMISSIVE.

_____________________________

Me to Daddy: Now you'll think I'm a weirdo
Him: I love you BECAUSE you ARE a weirdo.

(in reply to Dysonskeep)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 3:28:25 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

Maybe that's one difference between a sub/slave and a Dom/Master, not caring if someone they are trying to form a D/s relationship with is trying to deceive them or not, or more generally accepting someone trying to take advantage of them. I doubt if most people throw a fit like a three year old about the fakery but certainly a lot of sincere people and especially new people to sites like CM get discouraged and often leave because of it.



I'm sorry but this goes right back to the glass half empty glass half full sort of debate.

You write that 'a lot of sincere people and especially new people to sites like CM get discouraged and often leave because of it..'

Really? Is it not more the case that they go off somewhere else like to another site and try there? Or they go off and come back later?

Anyway, and I'm curious here, what's so traumatic about someone trying to lie to you or deceive you? As far as I'm aware nobody's died because someone told them a lie, or been injured. I mean it's not like someone is trying to whack you over the head with a baseball bat, is it?

You doubt if most people behave like adult three year olds? Okay, maybe not most (I was generalizing, please forgive me) but many.. if you don't believe me (and you probably don't as you're arguing for treating everyone you come across with suspicion and passive hostility) then might I suggest you spend a bit of time browsing profiles on the other side and reading journal entries - see the name calling, the general negativity, the 'must' this or 'must' that, and then come back and tell me that this isn't similar behaviour to a three or four year old.

I've been on this site since 2005 and you know what I really think? I think you can divide people into two general categories - the people who play the 'fake' game and those who don't. This is no different to anywhere else on the Internet - you have one group of people who are making use of the technology and living their lives the best they can, and then you have the other group - the skeptics and the dishonest who are too busy with each other (it's like a game of tag, isn't it?) to ever get any real benefit from what sites like CollarMe offer.

You see, I'm posting this now, and I'm posting this with the full awareness that tomorrow I could be dead. But you know I haven't made plans for a funeral, I haven't written out a will, and I have no intention of staying indoors and locking myself in a broom cupboard.

I'm too busy getting on with my life and living it. If I do actually die tomorrow then.. tough titty, I'll think of something when it happens.. unless there isn't such a thing as an afterlife, then it won't really matter, will it?

Yes, I get people who are dishonest, who misrepresent themselves, I get lied to, and I have the two best things to deal with it - a pair of legs and a sense of humour.

Probably like you I value my time and energy. But it seems to me unlike you, I prefer not to waste it on taking precautions against stuff that might not happen, stuff I cannot predict, and going round treating people with suspicion and passive hostility.

I mean, don't you think there's enough negativity in this world already? Why add to it?

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to Dysonskeep)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 4:39:49 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Massive difference between a fake/con artist and a timewaster. Then there is also a difference between them and someone you are not compatible with.

Personally I have never got into conversation with the former, you can spot their profiles a mile off and I don't generally reply to copy and paste messages so thats sorted.

Time wasters, depends what you are after I guess. If I want to meet someone I do it sooner rather than later. I haven't been immune to liers but that is a life problem not a website one. Its fine too, just makes it easier to spot the next time.

Thing is there are so many reasons why you may talk to someone for a few months and they stop talking to you/don't meet you whatever normally they are not right for you is a good over arching umbrella. A photograph means naff all in the grand scheme of things, ok it shows you what they looked like when they took the photo which may or may not reflect what they normally look like and really what can you guage from an image other than the fact that they exist?


_____________________________

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to stellauk)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 4:55:24 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysonskeep

For all of you who are tired of dealing with fakes and con artists, know that there are genuine people here who are what they say and who truly need BDSM. I found my slave on CM and it’s more than I ever hoped for in a slave.

There are a few simple things one can do to check the sincerity of a potential slave/sub. After some initial period, if someone is not willing to verify that they are vaguely who they purport to be, for example traits like their sex, age, weight, by some anonymous means such as a voice chat, or going on cam clothed while hiding their face (again they don’t have to worry about being identified this way), then more than likely they are not who they say they are. Another simple means is to have them take a photo while holding a sheet with your name on it, or some other message you tell them. If they say that they don’t have a cam or mic or a digital camera (which is in almost every cell phone), then red flags should go off.

It’s understandable that people want to protect their privacy. However, any serious person should be willing after a reasonable amount of time, to show some small measure of verification.


My "verification" of myself was not by showing some (possibly stolen) photo to someone online, it was...actually meeting up. In person. Often within the first two weeks. Usually we walked in lazy circles around a huge parking lot while we talked and talked, as I found I could not really learn much about someone by eating at a restaurant with them. Sometimes we were in a busy, large park, either sitting on a picnic bench or walking laps. This gave me a chance to watch their body language and how they responded to me.

He never saw my pic beforehand, never saw me on cam. I know this sounds strange...but I didn't care how he looked like. Lots of young hawt guys have tried to get my attention over the years but none could hold a candle to this man. He had..."it"...and I knew he was mine. There is something about another's soul that...is much more important than the outer wrapper. I delight in his body because it is MINE, and I see him as beautiful because he is MINE. Yanno, I saw a pic in his profile and it doesn't begin to show me who he is...it could be another person for all the effect it has on me.

Pix of people with names and numbers scribbled across their chest or belly make me laugh...cuz I used to have friends who were excellent at photoshopping anything, even current day newspapers onto pix.

I still don't have a cam, mike, or digital camera. Nope, not even a cell phone.

Years ago, I did. Wanna know what broke me from taking vanilla, conservative, face pix and posting them in letters and having it visible in Yahoo IM? Guys. Men trying to wow me with telling me that I was hawt/cute/whatever, and could not resist printing a copy of my pic to wank off over...that they had splatted my pic with cum. Oh H*** no! Some guys also come here to collect hundreds of pix of women for jack off material, so...some of us choose to make the guy show up in person instead of giving out pix.

Another way to see if someone is real is to go to munch groups. I belong to several groups. (Still don't post pix.)

About web camming and women hiding their faces. Camming can be recorded. Long time ago I took my video camera (VHS tapes not digital) and taped some things off the internet as well as from the tv. It must be so much easier with digital now to get it streaming on youtube or whatever. Whatever shows up on the computer screen can be screen captured in a still and put onto a disk. These women were hiding their faces because they had reason to.

I only read part of this thread but I saw where some brought up cheaters. A pic or whatever cannot show you anything, but going to their home, meeting their sister, mother, best friends...I believe I learned a lot more about my boy's character this way.

(in reply to Dysonskeep)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 5:16:37 AM   
SinFix


Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Use common sense... not that hard
Most people lie about one thing or another, just depends on what they lied about and how I feel about it. It is no big deal in the end, if we have never met then no harm no foul... I just move on, if it was a friend then again it would depend on the lie and why it was told...

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 6:39:14 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		They are all fake until ya meet em, and even then, it can take a few months to really be sure:-)


Color me cynical.

< Message edited by Kana -- 1/11/2012 6:42:38 AM >

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(in reply to SinFix)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 7:00:28 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		This topic of "fakes" comes up more often than most of us wish it would.

The problem (IMO) is that there is no universal definition of "fake".  "Fake" is in the eye of the beholder.

I've been called "fake" because I don't have any face pics on my profile.  I've been called "fake" because I wouldn't send naked pictures on demand.  I've been called "fake" because I wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship with someone who lives in California (I live in New York).  I've been called "fake" because I wouldn't masturbate on camera (I actually don't own a webcam).  I've been called "fake" because I wouldn't share my work address, boss' name, and boss' phone number with someone.  I've been called "fake" because I have a strong, "Type A" personality (which of course makes me a "fake sub").  I've been called "fake" because I didn't think there was chemistry and decided to stop communicating with someone.  I've been called "fake" because I refused to participate in race play (being her "N-word slave" just didn't appeal to me).  I've been called "fake" because I refused a command to suck another man's cock.  I've been called "fake" because I didn't send money to a complete stranger when they demanded it.  I've been called "fake" because I keep my profile hidden.

Based on these experiences, I'd say that being "fake" is probably the best thing that one can possibly be on CM.  So why do we have so many threads denouncing the fakes?

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 1/11/2012 7:04:14 AM >

(in reply to Dysonskeep)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 7:19:45 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Then there's the most popular "fake" - I can't tell you how many times I've told someone that I wasn't interested and was called a fake for doing so.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 7:37:57 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise


And lastly, I really really like the serious look in Michaels picture.


Yeah, me too. It makes me kind of quivery and like I want to sigh.
Sigh.



You should hear his voice.  As I vaguely recall, he does have a beautiful  voice.  Ask him to sing for you.

WinD

ETA On Topic discussion: 

Never really had a single problem or concern over fakes online.  It just doesn't register on my give a damn.  Fakes need loving too, dontchaknow. 

If someone was overly or overtly suspicious about the realness of me, and got all demanding and unreasonable - I was perfectly happy to let them believe me a fake.  If I liked em, and they wanted to chat on the phone, 's awesome.  If they lived close enough, I'd invite them over for coffee. Or, tea.  I have this new china set I'm dying to try out, and what better test of manliness is there than to put a delicate and fragile vintage piece of china into their hands?

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 1/11/2012 8:12:37 AM >

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 8:22:37 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Then there's the most popular "fake" - I can't tell you how many times I've told someone that I wasn't interested and was called a fake for doing so.


I think you're right.  Lack of interest in the other person is probably the most common reason for being called "fake".

Here's how people REALLY get labeled as "fake":

SuperDuperUberDom:  I like your profile, Bitch.  Why don't you come to my place and suck on my big, hairy cock.
TwueSub:  But I don't even know you sir.  Would you like to chat for a while to get to know one another?
SuperDuperUberDom:  Fuck you, Bitch!  I knew you were fake!

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Separate the chaff from the wheat - 1/11/2012 10:44:20 AM   
submittous


Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline 		I tend to think of fakes as the outright frauds, scammers and those guys living in mom's basement pretending to be sub women.... they are easy to spot. It's the time waster who has fooled themselves into believing they are something they are not that are hard to spot, but it turns out that is just as true in person as on line. All any of us can do is make the effort to listen carefully and believe what we hear, if it doesn't make sense then probably it isn't true. We tell people up front we have a one strike rule on dishonesty and stick to it.

_____________________________

"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 60
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