RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (Full Version)

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DarqueMirror -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/13/2012 10:30:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miserlou
any of those are valid reasons for a police officer to punch a restrained person in the face? wow! i have been lied to all my life, here i was thinking that l.a. was in america.


You apparently don't watch the Cops TV show much. It doesn't matter if person is "restrained," they can and often do still pose a threat.

Just last week was a segment where a guy tensed up when grabbed by the officer, forcing the two cops to take him down to the ground where one cop, who already had the guy in a headlock, felt the guy's hand on his hip near his gun. He reacted by punching the guy several times to neutralize his attempt to get the cop's gun.

In other segments, there have been single suspects who needed multiple cops (and in one case a camera man) to help bring him under control.

You never know what can unfold in a physical confrontation.



popeye1250 -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/14/2012 12:02:24 AM)

Who the hell in their right mind would want to be a cop?



Aswad -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/15/2012 11:03:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Who the hell in their right mind would want to be a cop?


Around here, people who want to make a difference for the good of others are those we try to leave in, while the rest are the ones we try to screen. There are many who seek the job from less than ideal motives, such as seeking it for the power and authority which comes with the uniform and badge (and often intending to abuse that power). Only a fraction of the people who apply to the police academy are allowed in, and there's a pretty steep dropoff up to graduation. People with the intention to abuse power appear to frequently have less tenacity than people with genuinely beneficial motivations. Note, though, that I'm by no means stating that the process is perfect, or that there's no environmental influence on them.

From what I've seen of police brutality and the prison system in the USA, particularly the recent changes in those areas, I would guess "sadists who want to get away with it" are among those that are now more frequently recruited, although not (I assume) intentionally. Coming from a perspective of having studied the concentration camps with an eye to those who worked there, I see disturbing parallells, and those go well beyond just a distaste for the overall policies and tactics of the US judiciary branch. A cancer is growing in that system, and there's little in the way of immune response to it.

That's probably not going to convince anyone not already seeing it.

But I'm placing a reservation, well in advance, for the right to say "I told you so".

Health,
al-Aswad.




lemmony2 -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/15/2012 4:51:46 PM)

typical police behavior.. Isn't this the same place that brought us the police beating the homeless man to death for sleeping on a bench?... Congress is currently passing laws making it illegal to film police in illegal activity's and to create indefinite detention for American citizens. Every American will be enjoying being slaves before the government is done if people don't stand up soon.

I have traveled the world and have the privilege of seeing more then just one view on many things.Trust me the only thing that lies to Americans more then the government is the media.I have never considered myself a radical but when even the American government Justice bureau site tells us we have more laws and restrictions then the rest of the world, we have more Americans in prison and we have more registry's forcing people into no jobs and homelessness, we are acquiring over 350,000 new laws and restrictions ever year,I have to wonder how many more freedoms can we sacrifice and still remember our country?



ConfidencePlays -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 9:10:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Resisting arrest, arguing with a police officer, history of assault, being accused of assaulting another person.....




Okay, there's a few problems with this... namely -everything-.

Resisting arrest will pretty much ensure you're taken in for questioning, and subsequently, more than likely processing. But you're -taken in- -and processed- -in a lawful manner- -without excessive force-. When the cops outnumber you two to one, when they have your hands restrained... when you -aren't- being violent, or combative, there is no justification for that level of violence against you.

Arguing with a police officer - Last I checked, arguing with someone is legal. Or might get you cited for disorderly conduct, depending on your location and the circumstances. It doesn't justify someone striking you in the face. It -certainly does not justify- an officer of the law striking you in the face.

History of assault - A history of assault will put you on a shorter leash, can serve as justification of issuing a search, and keep you from legally owning firearms. Just because I once hit a man doesn't mean a cop is allowed to hit me.

Finally, being accused of assaulting someone? I'm sorry, but last I checked, people in America, even in Los Angeles, are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Even if the cop -sees- you do it, he still has to take you in, process you, and get you in front of a judge. And unless you engage in violence with that officer, he is OBLIGATED to show restraint, to only use as much force as is necessary, and to keep a goddamn cool head about it.

Any officer who is unwilling or incapable of doing this has no business putting on that badge.



tazzygirl -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 10:36:27 AM)

quote:

Even if the cop -sees- you do it, he still has to take you in, process you, and get you in front of a judge. And unless you engage in violence with that officer, he is OBLIGATED to show restraint, to only use as much force as is necessary, and to keep a goddamn cool head about it.


quote:

when you -aren't- being violent, or combative, there is no justification for that level of violence against you.


She was resisting arrest. Pulling and pushing at the cops as they attempted to restrain.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I did not say his force was no excessive. As I have said more than once, there is more to this story that just what was seen. There wasnt anything verbally that could be made out on that video.



tazzygirl -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 12:48:08 PM)

quote:

She was -pushing and pulling-. Did she throw a punch? Did she pull a weapon? Did she even try either of those things?


Do you know what she did with her hands that were out of view? My nails are long, and hard. I can break skin with them.

quote:

The only thing I'll agree to is that you're out of your mind. I think I already knew that though.


So you believe personal attacks are justified?




ConfidencePlays -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 1:37:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

She was -pushing and pulling-. Did she throw a punch? Did she pull a weapon? Did she even try either of those things?


Do you know what she did with her hands that were out of view? My nails are long, and hard. I can break skin with them.

quote:

The only thing I'll agree to is that you're out of your mind. I think I already knew that though.


So you believe personal attacks are justified?




So you can break skin with your nails? If I were a cop, I'd put in paperwork an assault charge, if I were feeling like a dick. I wouldn't risk hospitalizing you over it.

There were two officers, it was one woman. Her arms were restrained, all I saw her doing was trying to push her way past them. What that officer did was quite plainly unjustified.

Edit; Cheerfully withdrawn.



tazzygirl -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 1:46:57 PM)

quote:

As far as thinking you're nuts? I just call it like I see it.


I realize you are new to these boards. So I will direct your attention to the following post.

If your post is not directed at the subject matter it is off topic and in violation. If your post has bad things to say about another poster, then it is a personal attack. I do hope this is simple enough for everyone, because those that do not understand or want to comply with these warnings and requests will not enjoy what comes next.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3981589

Now, do you wish to continue with the personal attacks?

My feeling is, on the OP, is that we dont have all the information. My instincts on these things are pretty good.

Weiner... I stated from the get go he was wrong and needed to go.

John Hopkins... I stated from the beginning it was all it was made up to be... again. I was correct. (Check here )

Your personal opinion of my state of mind is just that, your personal opinion. And, as such, you are personally attacking me. Dont pretend shock when the gold letter comes.



ConfidencePlays -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 1:55:00 PM)

Fair enough, I'll retract my statements, my opinions stand.



tazzygirl -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 2:01:09 PM)

Its in the hands of the mods.



mnottertail -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 2:02:37 PM)

You are soliciting the mods to punch somebody dead in the goddamn face?

I thought that was my baliwick.



tazzygirl -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 2:15:05 PM)

Im learning from the best. [;)]



FirmhandKY -> RE: LA Cop Punches Special Needs Woman In The Face On A Bus (1/16/2012 2:44:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ConfidencePlays

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Resisting arrest, arguing with a police officer, history of assault, being accused of assaulting another person.....


Okay, there's a few problems with this... namely -everything-.

Resisting arrest will pretty much ensure you're taken in for questioning, and subsequently, more than likely processing. But you're -taken in- -and processed- -in a lawful manner- -without excessive force-. When the cops outnumber you two to one, when they have your hands restrained... when you -aren't- being violent, or combative, there is no justification for that level of violence against you.

Arguing with a police officer - Last I checked, arguing with someone is legal. Or might get you cited for disorderly conduct, depending on your location and the circumstances. It doesn't justify someone striking you in the face. It -certainly does not justify- an officer of the law striking you in the face.

History of assault - A history of assault will put you on a shorter leash, can serve as justification of issuing a search, and keep you from legally owning firearms. Just because I once hit a man doesn't mean a cop is allowed to hit me.

Finally, being accused of assaulting someone? I'm sorry, but last I checked, people in America, even in Los Angeles, are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Even if the cop -sees- you do it, he still has to take you in, process you, and get you in front of a judge. And unless you engage in violence with that officer, he is OBLIGATED to show restraint, to only use as much force as is necessary, and to keep a goddamn cool head about it.

Any officer who is unwilling or incapable of doing this has no business putting on that badge.

I'd say that you don't have a lot of experience with the criminal legal world, and what constitutes "assault" and "resisting arrest"

Good for you!

But displaying you lack of experience can be construed as ignorance.  Loudly claiming an opinion that is counter to reality can be seen in an even more negative light.

In most juridictions, laying a single finger on a law officer is assault.  Be argumentive with a law officer, and then calmly and slowly touch his or her body with the tip of your finger, and you'll likely be on the ground, cuffed, and arrested.  For assault.

And, despite having a fairly negative opinion of many law officers myself, I think this is entirely appropriate, because I've dealt with enough loudmouthed, know-it-alls who will push the line "Just a little bit more".

Get up into a cop's face and breath hard.  Touch a cop.  Push a cop.  Advance towards a cop ... these can all be assault, and you will be treated as a threat and whatever the cop considers "appropriate force" will be applied to prevent you from "pushing just a bit more".

There isn't "innocent until proven guilty" until you are charged.  Law officers must be given some leeway and protection from people who can and will escalate and which can result in a much bigger problem, including a dead cop or a dead suspect.

In the great majority of times, the only prudent response to an officers instructions or request is a polite "Yes sir", and immediate compliance. If you do anything else, you have immediately placed yourself in the "possible problem" and "likely dangerous" suspect, and will be treated as such.

Legally and correctly.

Firm



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