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RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 6:59:54 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: QueenLuna

The main consensus of this is that just like everywhere else in the world it is pointless to argue with those that are close-minded and ignorant.
pointless cause you cant win the argument?
Aint it a bitch when you cant get another drone to follow your philosophy on life boohoo.
And what main consensus you talk about? your couple of friendlies here?
Aint it easy pointing a finger.
Guess wich one I am holding up.


(in reply to QueenLuna)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 7:17:32 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
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Okay, I'm going to try to narrow this done. You have an issue with FAKES, right? Well then by all means lets talk about some "dom" men. The twenty year old boys that don't want to hear a womans opinion he just says he does because there is a shot he might get to put his dick in her ass? How about the married ones? The "my wife doesn't understand me" dudes? The guys that have pissed off every other woman that has ever spoken to them to the point that if they do not play themselves up as something special will never get laid again? To you "dominating someone's finance is wrong" Thats cool, you have a right to your opinion. To me any man dominating a woman is wrong, but I'm not about to tell anyone of the lovely sub ladies on here that she is doing something wrong. I am not going to call them fake, or weak, or in need of help(or the law) I am going to assume they are grown adults that can choose how they want to live their lives for themselves.

*oh* And if the women you are talking about used words like financial caretaking when all they want to do is buy shoes than they would be lieing. And that is a lot worse than telling some guy if he wants her to speak to him he better pay for it. As I see it at least the "greedy" ones are being a bit more honest.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 1/16/2012 7:21:39 PM >


_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 7:33:30 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
OP, since you say that your intent with this thread is to understand, I'm going to try to help you do that.  I do have to state that I am not a fin domme, but getting the concept behind some of these things doesn't require being in the profession to understand how it works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisPet21
#1. In the several months that I've been on CM, during which I've regularly perved profiles, I've never once seen a male sub proclaim that he actually wants to buy a chick lots and lots of stuff. I've seen male subs proclaim that they will pay tribute if necessary, but I've never seen it listed as a kink. And yet, I've seen posts on here describing almost every other obscure fetish imaginable: Crucifixion, farting, diapers, stomach impalement, and more recently, chips up the bum. If there are really enough finsubs out there to support the hundreds of findoms with clients, how come I've never seen one? Considering just how many findoms there are, and how few finsubs I've run into, I have to ask...whose supporting all the findoms? Finsubs, or men who can't get a women to look them in the eye unless they have a fancy new credit card and pretty paycheck? In other words, how much financial domination is actually financial domination, and how much of it is regular old phone sex? I keep hearing, over and over again, that there are finsubs all over the place. But I just don't see the evidence. If a car salesman told me that everyone and his mother was buying some New Model X, but I never saw one on the road, do you think I'd believe him?

I can't speak for "all over the place".  I can say that they certainly are out there.  Some of whom, I actually know in person, and in particular, a few of them who used to post here.  For some, it's that they see it as a case of the other person having the power over them to take their money.  Others, they get off on feeling that they not worth someone's time and attention unless they pay.  That idea loses part of it's allure if they put in a profile that they *want* to tribute.  They want to *feel* that it's their only option, so they don't advertise it.  (I've even heard one tell Me that it's just not nearly as satisfying if the female contacts him first because it doesn't give him the same satisfaction because part of  his fulfillment was begging for the attention.) 

quote:

#2. On another thread concerning financial domination, several findoms came forward, bragging about how they never, ever had to work. As if sitting in your house, eating and sleeping all day, was something to be proud of. Now, I know that not all findoms see clients as free meal tickets. I know that there are some findoms out there who, you know, actually work to satisfy their clients and who see their domination as a job. Never-the-less, it still bothers me that so many professionals brag about how little they have to do on a day-to-day basis, as if laziness is a virtue. Hey, even if I were a billionaire, I'd get bored doing nothing all day. I find it hard to respect those findoms who don't get bored by nothingness.

I'm seeing this as nothing more than not breaking character for any other role play situation.  Yes, I get that this wasn't part of a 'scene' since it was posted to the message boards.  However, these are the same folks who adapt a certain type of persona for their clients and that illusion only works if the reality doesn't shatter it.  That's part of the kink for some.  For the fin domme to be using other people only for their money and to those who pay to feel that satisfaction of being used.

quote:

#3. In my pursuit of some, you know, info on financial domination, I ran across a bunch of stuff that absolutely sickened me. For example, forced intoxication sessions? The f*ck is that? Sessions where you force your sub to get drunk, and then ask him to buy you stuff. How is THAT safe, sane, or consensual? It isn't. End of story. What about all the findoms who legitimately blackmail clients? Or proclamations by proposed findoms, arguing that "I don't give a sh*t if you can't pay your bills. Mine come first." Is that part of catering to your client, or being an awful person?

Before anything else, let's remember that not everybody thumps that same SSC drum.  There a good number of folks out there who define themselves as RACK (risk aware consensual kink) because they feel it's a lot more accurate.  The concept of RACK says that when you decide to do whatever it is that you are going to do, you are aware of the risks involved. 

The consent part comes in when the arrangement is agreed to and the client goes in *knowing* what the outcome is most likely to be.  This is like any other 'forced' scenario connected with any other kind of play.  Part of that is the person saying they don't want to feel responsible for the outcome, even though that outcome is exactly what they wanted in the first place.

quote:

So, I guess I just want to hear from actual, professional findoms. What do you get out of this? What do you do to ensure that your client gets what he pays for? Do you see yourself as a goddess who is entitled to your pay pigs' money, or do you view your domination as a career, with a fair exchange of goods and services? What do your subs seem to get out of this? What ethical standards do you hold yourself to, if any, to ensure that you don't push your clients into financial trouble?

Now it's time for a little fairness.  As I've said, I'm not a fin domme.  I'm just going to put Myself in place of what you are asking others here.

I did hear you when you said that you were trying to understand this particular kink.  You could fill in the blank with any other kink and ask the same questions.  Emotional sadism is a good example.  How do I sit here and convince you that I'm ethical about it?  You don't know that I'm a responsible Dominant or even if I follow any of the standards that I might type up for you here. 

Anytime we run across a kink that we don't enjoy ourselves, you can use the same fill in the blank tactic to understand what other people do get out of it.  Answer your own questions given above about a kink that you *do* enjoy.  Then realize that those same answers are the ones that apply to other people for the kinks *they* enjoy.  It feels good.  It hurts.  It makes you feel secure or insecure.  It makes you feel powerful or powerless.  Point is, two different people and different kinks, but getting the same kind of satisfaction in engaging in them.  That's the key to understanding other people's kinks.  Not the kink itself, but accepting that the same answers to "why" can often be the same.



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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 8:01:58 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
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My point is cause you seem to be getting it, why call yourself a findomme when there are so many fake ones with alterior motives.
Just call yourself a pro and if someone wants to be financially dominated it will happen. At maybe the slave even benefits from it. But greed is in real dommes as well. Greed is everywhere and someone stressing the fact they are a financial domme are suspect.
I would consider it bad for business. One can be honest about greed but it doesnt make it any better. Even worse cause it's being accepted as a good thing
Gordon Gekko"Greed is Good"
And it is these sentiments that destroy the world.
Thats why I will fight against it in any way untill my dying day.
I won't call the police. ( hell they probably jail me)
I creep inside the dark crevices off the mind and fight with ignorance.
Untill my dying day
Thats my purpose and believe me its a heavy price I have to pay for it.
My ethics wont allow any other path.
I will die with my ideals intact.
Enjoy the love you have.
Mine died with the betrayal of my brothers who sent my mother to hell.




(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 8:17:58 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: QueenLuna

You'd think people looking to explore fetishes would be more open-minded to others.

Why would you think that?  People are people.  Just because they like something kinky doesn't mean that they'll be any more or less open minded than the rest of the population.

  I can positively guarantee they're not.  In fact, based on this site, kinksters are more conservative and set in their ways than any vanilla liberal.


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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 8:29:54 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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-fast reply-
many thanks to blushes and nibbyjibby, both of whom have really done a great job of providing a little insight into this fetish, for those of who aren't into it.

I'm a bit jealous--I would love for random folks all over the world to pay my bills....but from what I gather from Pro friends, it IS work.  If they aren't online, video-chatting, doing all the other things they do with their finsubs....the subs take their "business" elsewhere.  Some of them easily spend as much time online taking care of their subs as I do at my job, so work is work.  Is it easy work?  I certainly have no idea, but based on what nibbyjibby said...and blushes...it does take a certain amount of creativity and energy, and that sounds like work to me!

I've got a Pro-Domme acquaintance who wears panties...masturbates in them...then sells them for $200 a piece.   Damn. Now THAT'S easy money....sign me up dammit!  But she also does phone sex, pro-sessions and a bunch of other services--she works hard, and she earns that money.  I gotta confess, she does adult baby "babysitting"-- she gives them a snack, juice and puts them in a diaper then down for a nap.  An hour later....they pay and leave.   Sure it sounds like easy money, but do *I* want to do that?  Well....no.  And that's why there are Dommes.  The need is out there, the desire is out there....and fortunately, there are folks out there willing to fulfill that need.

I know plenty of Pro-Dommes.  I know a few former prostitutes. Knew plenty of sex workers and adult dancers.
Guess what?  All but one had a college degree.  They were some of the brightest, most interesting women I've ever met.  Two of my friends were prostitutes--they didn't walk the streets, they didn't have pimps.  They were dancers who developed some special "private" clients on the side, and some of the services they offered were sexual.  I didn't judge them then, and I'm not going to judge them now.  They paid off their student loans while I was scrubbing toilets for rich folks and unloading trucks on the docks.  Those gals earned every penny.


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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 8:33:52 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


I creep inside the dark crevices off the mind and fight with ignorance.


When it is willful it ceases to be ignorance and becomes stupidity, and how can you fight from the side of stupidity?

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 10:13:52 PM   
HisPet21


Posts: 395
Status: offline
quote:

Anytime we run across a kink that we don't enjoy ourselves, you can use the same fill in the blank tactic to understand what other people do get out of it. Answer your own questions given above about a kink that you *do* enjoy. Then realize that those same answers are the ones that apply to other people for the kinks *they* enjoy. It feels good. It hurts. It makes you feel secure or insecure. It makes you feel powerful or powerless. Point is, two different people and different kinks, but getting the same kind of satisfaction in engaging in them. That's the key to understanding other people's kinks. Not the kink itself, but accepting that the same answers to "why" can often be the same.


That was beautifully put, Lady Pact, and I appreciate both your input and your taking my post seriously. I've learned alot by reading the responses here, and I understand a lot more about the kink than I did to begin with. This is definitely one of the most enlightening posts I've read so far.

As for the whole prostitute thing...Obviously, findoms aren't prostitutes, because they don't have sex with their clients. They are, however, sex workers, and they do perform sexual services. Any service designed to get a client hard and/or off is a sexual service. You don't have to have sex, or take your clothes off, or go nude on cam to be a sex worker. There's absolutely nothing wrong, in and of itself, with being a sex worker, but let's call it what it is.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 10:28:39 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Anytime we run across a kink that we don't enjoy ourselves, you can use the same fill in the blank tactic to understand what other people do get out of it.  Answer your own questions given above about a kink that you *do* enjoy.  Then realize that those same answers are the ones that apply to other people for the kinks *they* enjoy.  It feels good.  It hurts.  It makes you feel secure or insecure.  It makes you feel powerful or powerless.  Point is, two different people and different kinks, but getting the same kind of satisfaction in engaging in them.  That's the key to understanding other people's kinks.  Not the kink itself, but accepting that the same answers to "why" can often be the same.
Yeah, y'see I can't do that, and here's why.

Fundamental to any evaluation of an activity is the issue of whether it harms the individual.  And with many kinks the issue of harm is not so much physical as it is psychological.  There are so many subs out there with self-esteem that is so clearly in the toilet that the idea that their kinks should be indulged - even worse, taken advantage of - is anathema to me.  Many individuals in this lifestyle are clearly unhealthy.  And by that, I don't mean what they want but how they they express themselves.

I cannot, in good conscience, go with the viewpoint which says any kink is permissible.  Some kinks are driven by needs which arise from severe dysfunction.  Which wouldn't be a problem if that dysfunction didn't impact their life in negative ways.  Fulfilling their kink runs the risk of accentuating or deepening that dysfunction - which is something I find profoundly unethical.

The problem is that many people are not sufficiently intelligent or informed enough to evaluate whether indulging a kink is a positive or negative act.  And as someone who is profoundly driven by a sense of ethics which requires my involvement to be a positive step - I am deeply critical of people who indulge a kink without considering the impact or - even worse - being aware that indulging it will deepen dysfunction and make the life of the individual worse.

On this site, I see a lot of subs who clearly need to clean up their life and get their self-esteem on track.  I also see a lot of Doms who are deeply dysfunctional and indulging power fantasies to compensate for their own deep level issues.  The subs are a worry.  The Doms are downright fucking dangerous.  Both cause me concern.


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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 11:17:08 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Oh yeah and for the record. Does
quote:

I just have a general dislike for people using bdsm solely for financial gain.
mean you don't care for people that make porn? Sex toys? Lube? Those that sell such things, because you do understand they are doing it for financial gain, don't you?

heh requoted for fact...
mind you tis water of a ducks back here, their sexual more's are fine but god help if its a woman getting the financial benefit from the mens indulging THEIR fantasies.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 11:19:55 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

-fast reply-
many thanks to blushes and nibbyjibby, both of whom have really done a great job of providing a little insight into this fetish, for those of who aren't into it.

I'm a bit jealous--I would love for random folks all over the world to pay my bills....but from what I gather from Pro friends, it IS work.  If they aren't online, video-chatting, doing all the other things they do with their finsubs....the subs take their "business" elsewhere.  Some of them easily spend as much time online taking care of their subs as I do at my job, so work is work.  Is it easy work?  I certainly have no idea, but based on what nibbyjibby said...and blushes...it does take a certain amount of creativity and energy, and that sounds like work to me!

I've got a Pro-Domme acquaintance who wears panties...masturbates in them...then sells them for $200 a piece.   Damn. Now THAT'S easy money....sign me up dammit!  But she also does phone sex, pro-sessions and a bunch of other services--she works hard, and she earns that money.  I gotta confess, she does adult baby "babysitting"-- she gives them a snack, juice and puts them in a diaper then down for a nap.  An hour later....they pay and leave.   Sure it sounds like easy money, but do *I* want to do that?  Well....no.  And that's why there are Dommes.  The need is out there, the desire is out there....and fortunately, there are folks out there willing to fulfill that need.

I know plenty of Pro-Dommes.  I know a few former prostitutes. Knew plenty of sex workers and adult dancers.
Guess what?  All but one had a college degree.  They were some of the brightest, most interesting women I've ever met.  Two of my friends were prostitutes--they didn't walk the streets, they didn't have pimps.  They were dancers who developed some special "private" clients on the side, and some of the services they offered were sexual.  I didn't judge them then, and I'm not going to judge them now.  They paid off their student loans while I was scrubbing toilets for rich folks and unloading trucks on the docks.  Those gals earned every penny.



Excellent post I could amost squish you for that


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 3:54:39 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

quote:Blushes

quote:

FrostedFlake

quote:

Blushes

Frosted Flake, instead of making vague generalizations, please state clearly where your dissatisfaction lies



What vague? Where?



"Restating a disrespected question, even doing so repeatedly, is not obsession. Calling it obsession does not answer the question, instead, it begs the question be restated. And while the snow outside my window does not affect me, it is just outside. By the same token, were Owen Wilson to leap from a giant cake to proposition a kitty litter consumer, that would not affect me, in the slightest, yet I would be... what is the word I want to use here?

In that I have learned a thing or two, this thread has been productive. But there has been more heat than light. And some of that heat was repetitive."

There.

Where?

_____________________________

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simul justus et peccator
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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 4:23:24 AM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
Thank you, Lady Pact

That is as much information as the rest of the thread added up. It may be more.

Nice of you to take the trouble.

_____________________________

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simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 4:44:11 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


I creep inside the dark crevices off the mind and fight with ignorance.


When it is willful it ceases to be ignorance and becomes stupidity, and how can you fight from the side of stupidity?
Since mankind ain't that smart the question is, why are they so stupid?
Answer that one and you've solved most problems.

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 5:02:52 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Oh yeah and for the record. Does
quote:

I just have a general dislike for people using bdsm solely for financial gain.
mean you don't care for people that make porn? Sex toys? Lube? Those that sell such things, because you do understand they are doing it for financial gain, don't you?

heh requoted for fact...
mind you tis water of a ducks back here, their sexual more's are fine but god help if its a woman getting the financial benefit from the mens indulging THEIR fantasies.
Guns are made for financial gain. Does that make it rightous? War is made for financial gain and so on.
But really if you don't get my drift then by all means don't.
I wonder what the next kink will be.
Hi I am an in debt Domme, cause you are always in debt to me.
Hi i am fuckin wounded knee Domme cause fisting don't stretch it anymore.
Hi I am powertool Dom cause my dick is limp.
Hi I am Dolcett Dom cause I wanna kill you and eat you.
All part of the new DumbDomDicktionary 2012.
Get it know on amazon.com and see what kind of Domme you are.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 7:02:37 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
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Your whole question is "Why call yourself a findom" ? Really? Okay I can clear that up pretty quickly. They call are called findoms for the same reason what I do is called W.H.A.P. it is to let others know what we do. Believe it or not it helps. Why use the title when others have held it up in a bad light? Well for the some reaosn I call myself a female supremacist. For the same reason you call yourself a man(many bad things have been said about men) Because the fact is that is what I am and that is what you are. Giving something a cute fluffy name doesn't change what they really are. After all I could call a shark a bunny...but it won't change the sharks actions...and come feeding time no one else in the ocean is going to like me yelling bunny when I should have been yelling shark.

And just so you don't feel to alone... Ego nunquam pronunciari mendacium! Sed ego sum homo indomitus. I'll die by my ideals as well even if they have been beaten upon by others. I have faith we all will.




_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 7:32:57 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Don't you think pro dommes control their steady subs completely anyway most of the time. I think Dommes and Doms who are not pro, control the finance completely as well. They do not call themselves financial dom(mes) but they do control every financial transaction.
So to me it's kind of a superlative, is that the correct grammatical term for it?
If BDSM is a complete lifestyle this will happen in most cases.
In the regular world they are called golddiggers or controlfreaks.
But there is always an exemption to the rule.
I wouldnt class myself under the rule if I was an exemption.
I class the rule of financial dominators as golddiggers and controlfreaks.
Is that a strange train of thoughts?
Be my guest and name yourself what you want.
Everybody is on how not to be judgemental.
To not judge is also judgement.
To do nothing is also doing something.
Boeddha

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 7:34:03 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Guns are made for financial gain. Does that make it rightous?


No, it makes it neutral. Guns are neither good nor bad. They are merely a tool.

Not everything has to be righteous. Sometimes neutrality is a good thing.

I don't see findom any differently. It is rather neutral, though it could be either a good or a bad thing depending on the sub/dom. Keep in mind the sub can pull the plug at any time if he so chooses. He is still ALWAYS in control of his own wallet. J

Just as with more physical forms of BDSM, it is up to the sub to set their own limits and be willing to walk away if they are crossed.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 1/17/2012 7:37:42 AM >

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 7:47:09 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
Guns are made to kill what is neutral about that?
Nobel invented dynamite to make building more easy.
As soon as he saw it's immense power he was contemplatin the rest of his life, if he had done the world more evil than good.
Of course they are tools and mankind makes the decision how to use them.
What are we gonna wield this millenium the sword or the plow?

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/17/2012 7:55:54 AM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Guns are made to kill what is neutral about that?
Nobel invented dynamite to make building more easy.
As soon as he saw it's immense power he was contemplatin the rest of his life, if he had done the world more evil than good.
Of course they are tools and mankind makes the decision how to use them.
What are we gonna wield this millenium the sword or the plow?



I'm a carnivore so I don't believe all killing is evil.

I have no problem with wielding both a sword and a plow because they serve different purposes.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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