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RE: The real cost of war - 1/20/2012 8:21:38 PM   
tweakabelle


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Here, the Australian Defence Forces (ADF) have just released details of "hot issues briefs" controversial incidents involving members of the ADF over the past year or so:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/defence-log-lifts-lid-on-sex-crimes-20120120-1qa8b.html

In all there were 116 such incidents, ranging from possession of child porn to rape and serious sexual assaults. Not a huge number in absolute terms but the ADF is relatively small (c45, 000 IIRC). We are constantly told that the ADF is highly regarded among militaries for its professionalism - it seems not unreasonable to speculate that the figures for conscript armies or less professional militaries are worse.

Releasing such details marks a new departure for the high-secretive ADF. It is widely believed that the Minister for Defence insisted upon their release as part of an ongoing power struggle between the ADF's political bosses and Defence/ADF bureaucrats and commanders, and that they were released in spite of opposition from the Defence bureaucrats and ADF commanders.

It appears to be more evidence to support the emerging view that the extensive negative effects of militarism and war extend far beyond the battlefield last for generations after the actual fighting is over. On the evidence to hand, this pattern seems consistent internationally.

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/20/2012 8:50:53 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It appears to be more evidence to support the emerging view that the extensive negative effects of militarism and war...

Taking the numbers you cite in your post as an example, the "extensive negative effects of militarism and war" have an incidence rate of 0.002578. I find myself inclined to think that the extensive negative effects of the continual drumbeat of agenda-driven hyperbole that characterizes political discourse these days are considerably higher and longer lasting.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/20/2012 8:53:44 PM >

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/20/2012 10:16:01 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

That's why we have a 'war on terror' 'war on drugs' and some very hot deadly wars on the ground


We have no wars- declared or not- and haven't since WWII. One can argue Korea or Nam (but one would lose).

And to call Iraq or Afghanistan a war is just ridiculous.

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/20/2012 10:36:41 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle



Taking the numbers you cite in your post as an example, the "extensive negative effects of militarism and war" have an incidence rate of 0.002578.

K.



The figures cited refer only to those incidents likely to generate a significant degree of public controversy during a single 12 month period. So the correct way to present the figure you quoted is 0.00258 per annum or 2,580 per 100, 000 population annually.

This is understating the figure considerably as it doesn't include any crime/incident unlikely to attract public controversy. For comparison, here are the stats for the general population:
Recorded assault 840 per 100,000, (2010)
Robbery 86 per 100,000 per year (2010)
Kidnapping between three and four per 100,000 (2007)
The homicide rate was 1.3- 2.0 per 100,000 (1996-2010)
Recorded sexual assault 94 persons per 100,000 (2007)

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.aspx

These stats add up to approx 1000 incidents per 100,000 p a. Self-evidently, the rate for the military is clearly more than 2.5 times the general rate (2,580 vs c1,000) even though the military figures represent a considerable understatement of the true figures. So the true figure will be well in excess of 2.5 times the civilian rate.

As the number of ADF personnel engaged in frontline combat duties in Afghanistan is unlikely to exceed c500 per annum, these figures can be taken as peacetime figures. It is probable that these stats will be far worse in wartime.

The phrase you found hyperbolic referred to a lot more than these figures alone. It referred to the contents of this thread in total.

Therefore it seems that, in this instance, the hyperbole is all yours.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/20/2012 10:53:14 PM >


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RE: The real cost of war - 1/20/2012 11:29:41 PM   
FrostedFlake


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A new Kenworth might go for a quarter million.

So you get four for a Million.

Four thousand for a billion.

Four million for a trillion.

And Voice of America puts the total thus far at $3,700,000,000,000

Than comes to 14,800,000 New Kenworths.

Parked side by side with room to open the doors creates a line of new trucks 33636 miles wide.

The circumference of the Earth is 24,900 miles.

The commitment to these wars is sufficient to compare to a line of new trucks parked door to door stretching 1 & 1/3 the way around the world.

What are We trying to accomplish?

And what could We have accomplished had We elected to build rather than destroy?

The value of Peace is seldom counted among the costs of War.

Extra credit question. Had We built 14 million commercial vehicles and given them away, what would our reputation be like when compared to what it is, now?

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 1:37:11 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Taking the numbers you cite in your post as an example, the "extensive negative effects of militarism and war" have an incidence rate of 0.002578.


The incidence rate should be considered relative to the numbers actively deployed, since the increase reported in the USA is attributed to the currently serving personell. And, yes, it's being taken a bit far, though I would think the U.S. figures in this regard are somewhat troubling, considering the number of citizens back at home that are being adversely affected.

quote:

I find myself inclined to think that the extensive negative effects of the continual drumbeat of agenda-driven hyperbole that characterizes political discourse these days are considerably higher and longer lasting.


I fear you're right on this point.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 3:09:59 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Therefore it seems that, in this instance, the hyperbole is all yours.

Ahem. The statistics you quote are for the general population. I think you'll find that there aren't very many juveniles and seniors among your active military forces. They are largely composed of males between 18 and 25 years of age. And one might be forgiven for thinking that if you could have supported your case with a legitimate apples-to-apples comparison, you would have.

K.

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 5:37:25 AM   
tweakabelle


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Perhaps you are reading too much into the figures. All I suggested was that they were "more evidence to support [an] emerging view". I don't think, nor have I claimed they are conclusive. That would require a far more detailed analysis than my offering, and several studies confirming the findings as well.

I do feel they can be interpreted as indicative of a problem. Read in conjunction with the evidence submitted previously and the variety of perspectives detailed in this thread to date, the claim that the real cost of war is far higher and longer lasting than is usually admitted is acquiring considerable substance. From where I sit, that's the point of this thread.

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 6:30:02 AM   
MrRodgers


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Part of the real cost of war is the very concept of an all-volunteer force will increasingly will only be supported by the continuing impoverishment of western middle class. This conclusion is driven from not only the increasing military suicides but the whole general feeling of what drives these deaths, the despair and growing lack of confidence in leaders from all stripes...to end the ridiculous violence.

You see the real incompetence and as usual, was/is in the US 'leadership' and their bureaucrats...the CPA, as of 2003-2004. From that, at least 2 million and an estimated 4 million Iraqi professionals left and are...not coming back. With the exception of the so-called Green area, there is no infrastructure, no consistent power or sewer and sanitary water.

Thus even more are continuing to leave Iraq, will also leave Afghanistan where there has never been a real national govt. we installed a corrupt loser and the Afghan. people know it, so almost the entire govts. of Iraq and Afghan. are corrupt. So they revert to their...tribal warfare and a vacuum exists for other actors to gain influence and these two countries turn out worse than if we had never started anything.

There is a new pessimism in that all of the blood and treasure...will be for nothing (except profits) and the real prospect now is that all forces suffer from battle-fatigue because these wars were to...never end. They only end for us...is if we leave.



< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/21/2012 6:32:52 AM >

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 10:48:29 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

the real cost of war is far higher and longer lasting than is usually admitted

Fair enough. I'll agree with that.

K.

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 9:45:49 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

What are We trying to accomplish?

And what could We have accomplished had We elected to build rather than destroy?

The value of Peace is seldom counted among the costs of War.

Extra credit question. Had We built 14 million commercial vehicles and given them away, what would our reputation be like when compared to what it is, now?


Thanks Frosted.. exactly what I was thinking.

Better still, what if 14 million movies had been produced, or 14 million albums released?

The greatest impact Americans could ever have on the world isn't being the supercop, it's being the friend.

How many kids all over the world grow up knowing about Disney?

The real power of Americans doesn't like in the military at all, it lies in writing books, making music, making movies and acting..

..sharing American culture, a culture the whole world wants to share and be a part of.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 1/21/2012 9:47:21 PM >


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RE: The real cost of war - 1/21/2012 11:47:39 PM   
Trismagistus


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I think this is relevant http://grooveshark.com/s/Die+For+Oil+Sucker/3EXXSq?src=5

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RE: The real cost of war - 1/22/2012 3:40:42 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Part of the real cost of war is the very concept of an all-volunteer force will increasingly will only be supported by the continuing impoverishment of western middle class.


This has been a factor since forever, essentially.

Back in the day, when the pikemen were likely to take out the first lines of attackers, you would hire poor sobs with the promise of great rewards if they survived, and there would be quite a few signing up due to that prospect. Of course, the real purpose was that the corpses would pile up into a ramp which allowed the more experienced attackers, placed further back in the formation, to pass the pikers and start engaging the remainder. Comparing the U.S. model to the U.K. model with regard to infantry may illustrate the differences and reasons for them.

What it comes down to, of course, is that the lack of respect for the lower classes has been a key element of our culture at least since antiquity, and that the various'o'cracies have kept an ongoing trend of the big egos wielding the armed units as a means to enforce their will and satisfy their desire for whatever, this being the scene on which life is played out at that level, the worker bees being the unseen background that serves as a substrate for those actually living life, supporting the abstracted reality on their backs and getting little to no credit for it much of the time.

At least as slaves they had a value, but now everyone is worth the same as humans (i.e. nothing), and those under the yoke are no longer an asset and so in effect have no value: they're consumables. And armies have always been good at consuming. Which is why we have to have stories to glorify regularized armed conflict, while these stories are borne on the will and discipline of the individual soldiers. Indeed, there are admirable things about many- perhaps most- of the individual soldiers (or, perhaps more correctly, there's something admirable about a warrior, and many soldiers are warriors, but some soldiers are armed thugs, and armies have different porportions of these), but when these join to form armies, the armies as aggregates have emergent properties that are frequently (but not always) far from admirable. That's also dependent on the managing bodies, the 'heads' of these armies, and there's real problems in quality control at that level.

Part of the problem with this is the simplified perception of armies that arises, and the polarization that prevents change and debate. When people have an extreme position, they aren't interested in adjusting their position, leading to deadlock that hinders change for the better. Armies aren't bad, or dangerous. Poor management and poor use of armies is bad and dangerous. There's not necessarily anything wrong about the armed forces being a recourse for the underprivileged, but when you combine it with mismanagement and misuse, it ceases to be a recourse and becomes yet another trap, which aggravates both the problem for the soldiers and the negative consequences of mismanagement and misuse.

quote:

Thus even more are continuing to leave Iraq, will also leave Afghanistan where there has never been a real national govt. [...] So they revert to their...tribal warfare and a vacuum exists for other actors to gain influence and these two countries turn out worse than if we had never started anything.


Afghanistan had a real, national government. It was a student uprising called the Taliban, and it suppressed the warlords, cracked down on tribal warfare, introduced the early beginnings of a system of courts, and demanded its members have strict discipline and extensive familiarity with their doctrines. That was one of many major groups in the country, likely the largest and definitely the most structured, and a lot of its excesses of violence were directed toward the second largest group, after that group attempted to wipe them out.

Said government refused to extradite Osama bin Laden without any evidence or due process, and as a result, they became the defenders in a war of aggression started by GWB, much as had been the case some time earlier when the USSR were the aggressors (at which point they were firmly supported by the USA). Because of their shitty handling of women and cruel methodology, there was no real opposition to this move (although there were many saying they didn't like it), and the country was driven back into the same situation it used to be in of tribal politics and civil war, just with the added pressure of occupation that brought with it artillery bombardment, air raids and a resurgence of corruption and drug abuse.

Since then, an attempt has been made at establishing a different government, the stability of which depends on the work done by the provincal reconstruction teams and how long those stay around. For the ones involved in that work, it looks quite different from the aggression phase, at least going by the feedback from our PRT servicemen in Meymaneh and in Mazar-i-Sharif. Those are supported by FSK eroding the funding of the five major insurgent groups and the warlords in the regions, and a limited contingent that's there to discourage attacks on the otherwise rebuilding-centered efforts.

It is crucial to seeing any payoff on this effort to keep that effort going long enough, because the ANP is starting to get a better idea of what a police force can be, and how much good it can do for the population to have functional government and public services. More importantly, some of them are finding hope for the future, and an understanding that this hope depends on their own efforts and their own professionalism. That helps mentor teams in their work, causing important values to rub off on the Afghani on whose shoulders the future of the country will rest, making them curious about our ways and interested in learning more about how they can make a difference for the better in the long run.

If anything is going to provide any stability down there right now, it's them.

And, frankly, while the government in place there is corrupt... is it more corrupt than the U.S. government, or is it just more obvious and honest and up front about it? As far as I can see, my own government is no less corrupt, but they're keeping it under the rug (in some cases, rugs worth USD 10.000 or more, gifts from tribal warlords in Afghanistan).

Simply put, the corruption is a problem, but if the ANP and others can get on the right track, the country will have a future that will permit them to- as a people- move off in a direction of their own chosing, and hopefully correct some of the corruption and form a government that is functional and representative. At that point, perhaps they will develop in the social and cultural arenas.

quote:

They only end for us...is if we leave.


As I recall, you did leave. As did we, a few months later.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: The real cost of war - 1/28/2012 7:57:59 PM   
tweakabelle


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Here's another cost to add to all the others:
"The ABC broadcaster Steve Cannane made a point on Twitter in response to my last column, about the high rate of suicide in the military. A study found the children of Vietnam veterans are three times as likely to kill themselves as the rest of the population. Three times. We too often forget the impact on the wives, husband and kids as soldiers return from war, grappling with trauma and dislocation. It is a grief and illness that can stretch across generations. This is crucial for policy makers to understand: war does not end when the soldiers come home."

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/we-always-sit-up-for-buff-stuff-20120128-1qmrv.html#ixzz1kod8Ni81

So the cost, in emotional damage, in physical damage, in lost opportunity, in broken relationships and now suicides is passed down through the generations. These costs don't distinguish between victors and vanquished, or between combatants and civilians. They affect us all and seem to keep affecting us all for generations afterwards.

When are we going to stand up to this lunacy and say "NO MORE - NEVER!" ??

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/28/2012 8:05:57 PM >


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The real cost of war, continued. - 1/29/2012 1:44:40 PM   
Aswad


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Continuing the translation of the article series about the real cost of war, here is the second article in the series, out of three (if memory serves). The same caveats apply as for the first article, to which I've made this a reply (as well as linking the word 'continuing') for those who haven't read the first, or who aren't clear on the caveats. Repeated here for moderator convenience is that this constitutes fair use, and that I will be happy to arrange for a faxed permission from the local newspaper if such is deemed necessary.


The Dark Time

The Norwegian UN-troops about the 17 years since their assignment in Iraq:

In febuary of 2005, a distressed man places a call to the government building in Oslo, threatening to set fire to the military camp in Bjerkvik. This is T.M.'s call for help, 13 years after his UN assignment in Iraq.



MAY 1992. T.M. is finally home in Bjerkvik, Nordland. But he's tired and worn down after almost 15 months of continuous service in the Gulf War region. He still wakes up with nose bleeds, the way he did at the end of his tour in the Iraq area. Now, the skin in his mouth has also started peeling. He gets severe rashes. And the flashbacks stay with him, those that started with the quiet time that followed the end of the mine incidents.

He has to do something. His remedy is to be twelve hour days at a local concrete renovation business. For over a year, he keeps the unwelcome thoughts at bay by immersing himself in work. Then comes the summer holidays of 1993. [ All of Norway goes on vacation in June and July, called the 'common holiday'. Accordingly, businesses stay closed at this time, since everyone is on vacation, leaving T.M. no opportunity to work during the holiday. -aswad ] The days grow longer and harder to bear. Back in Iraq, he at least had the bond to his fellow servicemen. Friends that understood. He starts sinking into a depression. Until he gets a phone call. It's the head radiographer and buddy from a Gulf War assignment in Saudi-Arabia on the line. The head radiographer, 'Dag', is headed out for a new Norwegian UN assignment in Bosnia. He wants a skilled radiology assistant, and informs T.M. of the opportunity to ship out to Bosnia. This call from his Gulf War buddy has T.M. signing up for yet another deployment.

Young T.M. has learned the way of things from the veterans during his tours in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq. The culture of it. When out on an international assignment, and after returning, one does not speak of illness. And certainly not mental health issues. Not if you ever plan to deploy again.

During his service, he had appeared well adjusted on the surface. The northerner isn't picked up by any of the screenings. In September of 1993, T.M. gets on the plane to Tuzla. He isn't the only one from the NorMed unit / Unikom 1 to be back on the move. Also headed out to Bosnia- a region with tensions running high- is his buddy from the mine chaos in the desert, J.O.G., as well as the communications officer L.S. and the logistics man G.R.J.

Artillery barrages, grenades and bullets take their toll on TM's nerves. He experiences his time in Bosnia as very dangerous and stressful. Mentally, he is fraying badly, if not hanging on by a thread. [ idiomatic expression untranslatable; play on a car with a flat tyre that is driving on the rim of the wheel. -aswad ]



Christmas 1992. The career soldier T.B. has been back home in Oslo for a while. He's tired, starting to feel the wear and tear from several years of international assignments. He's having a party, and the whole family has been invited. His flatmate [ girlfriend; moving together is a common prelude to marriage. ] is receiving the guests, handling the greetings and such; the mood is good. Then something happens. The big guy starts sweating, trembling and eventually passes out.

- I panicked. My flatmate called the medical ward, which sent a doctor right away. It was terrible.

One year later, T.B. is moved to Aker Hospital. They draw more blood and do biopsies on his lungs. There he is, «Still Waters» [ lit. ], as his buddies call him, the strong, hardened soldier. And he's starting to get frightened.



31. MARCH 1993. J.O.G. is sitting at the kitchen table in his home in Finnmark [ furthest north. ] and is reading Dagbladet [ 'the daily' ]. On getting to the letters section, he stops quite suddenly on discovering a poem, under the heading of "50 suicides among UN soldiers". He reads it. [ translation makes no attempt at meter etc.; the original is quite well done. -aswad ]

Then did they take away our helmets, our flak suits and also our rifles;
took away our brothers, the burning sun and the ruddy sands;
took away the bar, the numbing drink staving off our solitude.

They replaced our uniforms with medals and gilded papers;
put us on a plane back to Norway, and told us;
civilians you are, regular citizens again.

"Your country and the UN are grateful," they said, and left us.

We were now they:
the civilians, the others.

But some things they couldn't take away:
our ruddy dreams and solitude, the longing and memories.
They could not change what we had now become:
strangers in our own land.

The poem was written by a UN-veteran from Sandefjord, and it makes a profound impression on him. JOG cuts it out of the paper, and hangs it on his fridge.



AROUND THE SAME TIME, the armed forces medical branch has started to worry. International media are starting to cover the illnesses after the Gulf War quite extensively.

On the 10th of August 1993, the head of the office of environmental medicine, Capt. Cmdr. [ NATO OF4; the US/UK Navy equivalent is Commander ] R.M., Dr.Med., sends a warning letter under the heading of «To all veterans of the Gulf War». In his letter, he notes:

«Of late, a curious syndrome has appeared, given the designation of Gulf War Syndrome. The symptoms are diffuse, including headaces, exhaustion, extensive loss of hair, depression, bleeding gums, anemia, pulmonary problems, and so forth. The reason for these symptoms and findings are unknown at this time, but there has been speculation as to whether one of the causes may be the massive exposure to various chemicals. Substantial amounts of smoke and gases that were released by the burning oil wells, side effects from the vaccines, drugs, and other chemical substances that were used as preventatives against the potential threat of biological and chemical warfare may have contributed to the development of the illness.», he writes.

Mundal wants to investigate whether Norwegians have fallen ill with symptoms similar to the Americans serving in the Gulf War. So he turns to the people who were in the service in the medical detachment in Saudi-Arabia during the war back in 1991. But what of the men and women from the NorMed unit of UNIKOM? The small medical detachment that went through the mine nightmare when deployed in Iraq after the war?

TB, GRJ and the others that were deployed both in Saudi-Arabia and Iraq remember taking unfamiliar drugs; being deployed in a war zone, they never questioned it. One example was intended to protect against the nerve gas sarin, called pyridostigmine bromide, which had been used by military personell in war zones several times before, but about which there were still several questions as to safety.



THE DAYS CRAWL BY. T.B. is having trouble with his health, most notably his heart. In 1995, he applies for another position; he wants to deploy to Bosnia. Yet after a medical exam, he is turned down.

For T.B., it's a huge defeat: this is the first Norwegian UN assignment he isn't going to be a part of. The reason is the diagnosis made by the doctor examining him. A diagnosis that remains unknown to him for a long time, classified.

Around the same time, his buddy GRJ returns from his own Bosnian deployment. He paints houses, takes minor jobs here and there, drives a cab; lives his life mostly by night, and takes to drinking to numb the anxiety and nightmares.

«People like us are hell to live with», relates GRJ.

The communications officer L.S. also returns from such a deployment in Bosnia, one that didn't go very well. He becomes withdrawn. Works at a kennel deep in the woods, mostly all by himself. Complete isolation.

«That simply wasn't right. I should never have been there.», notes L.S.



«SNIPERS!»

T.M. is scanning the area. He's convinced there are snipers hidden outside the geriatric nursing home in the sleepy little town of Bjerkvik, a nursing home where he's been working since he came back from Bosnia in April of 1994.

The military is also starting to suspect that not everything is as it should after T.M.'s last mission. They give him a call, ask him if he has any problems. He informs them he is in poor shape, physically and mentally. There's no use speaking to other people about these things. At home, this lonely man pulls his curtains shut so he won't have to see the glinting of scopes through the trees. The potatoes on his plate have clearly been poisoned.

Moving in with his grandparents doesn't help, either. Reality has gone haywire. T.M. numbs down his anxiety with alcohol, then moves on to drugs like cannabis and amphetamines. This doesn't exactly improve his condition. The years pass by in a big, empty blackness. In 1997, he is admitted to Lofoten Psychiatric Hospital, and is diagnosed with acute paranoid schizophrenia. His world collapses, and he is pumped full of potent medicines; a year later, T.M. is placed on early disability pension.



DR. M. A. is upset. It is 1998, and he has just seen a documentary [it is not entirely clear in the source text if it's an American production, or just a production about the American arsenal -aswad] which mentions a large amount of dust from depleted uranium ammunition being dispersed when an ammunition depot exploded in the American military base Doha on the 11th of July in 1991.

Depleted uranium was used in ammunition at the time because it has a substantial penetration power against armored vehicles, among other things. [It is also an incendiary when used against armored vehicles, causing burning metal flak to enter the compartment. -aswad] In parts of the border zone where their unit was stationed, there were great quantities of dust from depleted uranium shells. The Gulf War was the first major deployment of this type of ammunition, and since then, there have been debates as to whether depleted uranium dust can pose a health risk.

M.A. was a doctor in the NorMed unit, and both he and four others were in Doha on the day of the explosion. It is only now, seven years later, that he learns about the controversial ammunition stored at the depot.

«It was quite unexpected. I felt a bit of a shiver down my spine when thinking about how I had been right in the middle of it. Even from the first day, we had the impression there was a big hush about this. If anyone in our armed forces knew of this earlier and failed to inform us, that's very unfortunate,» comments MA. He has long wondered whether his health problems might be related to his exposure in Doha.



ELSEWHERE in the country, something good comes out of it: in 1999, nurse RKS from Vågå marries her colleague EL from Nes. The two of them hit it off during their deployment in Iraq, where they developed a strong personal relationship that grew stronger during their six month stay there.

Back then, in October of 1991, they had gone home with no promises. EL was married, RKS returned to her job in Oslo alone. They write each other Christmas cards, have some sporadic contact, but not much else.

«The worst thing for me after the assignment, wasn't anxiety and nightmares. It was a broken heart.», RKS recounts.

But three years after the tour in Iraq, EL ends up divorced. RKS isn't about to let the opportunity pass her by; she travels to Sandnes, and soon the two nurses get together again.

After the wedding in 1999, they talk a lot about the assignment which brought them together. It's been almost ten years at this point, and EL thinks they should mark the occasion somehow. EL and RKS decide to make a reunion party for the whole unit in 2001.

They expect it will be nice to see their old colleagues from the desert again.



In June of 2001, the armed forces have a major investigation going on. A few thousand veterans of international operations between 1990 and 2001 are given medical examinations, and some 17.000 or so are selected to participate in a survey. They find it hard to gain the trust of their former employees. In the reminder they send to the veterans, dated the 25th of June, 2001, the medical branch makes a note to the defense force supreme command:

«Some have inquired as to whether it is 'safe' to provide an honest answer. There are concerns that they might become ineligible for future redeployment, or that their careers in the armed forces might be impacted by participating in this survey.»

By the end of the investigation, they have managed to obtain answers from some 12.500 veterans.

The military concludes that veterans have «somewhat more health issues than the control group», and the debate about the potential risks of depleted uranium dust is halted by the chief of the medical branch.

«We conclude that there is no reason to suspect that depleted uranium can result in leukemia or other types of cancer», states Gen. Maj. L.R., the chief of staff for the medical branch, in 2002.

Head doctor JIB, who is the one with the statistical source data that was collected in the 2001 investigation, concludes that Gulf War Syndrome is merely an expression of general health issues and not particularly related to service in the Gulf War.



THERE THEY ARE. It is August of 2001, and about 30 veterans of the NorMed unit are gathered at the Bæreia facility of the Association of Veterans with Disabilities. They're there to eat, drink and reminisce about everything that transpired back then. It's mostly a pleasant event overall. But there are several missing. Some haven't been heard from for years. Like the chef, TS, which has disappeared completely. Some wonder if he's still alive. Or TM, the conscientious, hard working man from Bjerkvik. How's he doing?

T.B., on the other hand, is present. But the «Still Waters» aren't so still anymore. He seems uncomfortable and weathered. It's too much for him, and he has to leave the party early.

Earlier that summer, the participants in the NorMed unit / Unikom have received a reminder from the military: around June, they had a letter prodding them to reply to the veterans' health investigation. But many haven't answered; the questions are seen as poorly chosen and irrelevant. It doesn't seem to concern them at all.

«It seemed as if they had picked the questions to get the answers they wanted», notes GH from Voss.



NEW YEAR's EVE 2002. GRJ is now a taxi driver in Tønsberg, mostly at night. It's a job he knows like the back of his hands, and he spent most of his upbringing a few miles out of town.

Lately, though, he's been having difficulties. Things slip suddenly. He forgets the main street names while he's out driving.

This New Year's Eve is particularly bad. As midnight approaches, the fireworks start going off. GRJ is scared to death. He stops the car and covers his ears, then gets out of the car to hide. This is too much of a reminder of Saudi-Arabia, of Iraq, of Bosnia.

FEBUARY 2003. Over in the USA, the armed forces are in a hurry. They're preparing the invasion of Iraq, and Saddam Hussein is to be eliminated. The planned war is highly controversial, and leads to big demonstrations throughout Europe.

For the Unikom veterans, this stirs up memories. But one of the less publicized of the controversial decisions is one they don't hear about: this is the month when the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) finally issues their approval for pyridostigmine bromide for use as a protective measure against the nerve gas Sarin.

The US directorate of health [ I'm not sure what the backtranslation is. It may have been a cultural translation, rather than a reference, and in that case probably refers to the FDA. -aswad ] thus approves this drug of controversy, some 12 years after UN troops were required to use them in Saudi-Arabia, including TB, GRJ, ?S and TM. This in spite of the fact that several of the side effects have not yet been charted. But the FDA emphasizes that the approval is solely for military use.

On the 18th of March, 2003, Iraq is yet again invaded. Back here at home, the Unikom veterans are left with no fewer questions than before.



THE HOUSE OF PARLIAMENT in Oslo receives a threat. It is delivered by phone to the H-Block on Saturday the 12th of Febuary, 2005, at 8:55am, local time. According to the police report, the man placing the call claims to have depleted uranium explosive shells and that he intends to use them. Further, he states that if someone doesn't help him, he'll burn the houses around him to the ground. This is seen as credible enough to be cause for concern.

The desperate man on the line is T.M. He has just been watching a program about the delayed onset effects of inhaling the dust from depleted uranium shells. He knows all too well that many of these were used in the area where he served a 15 month tour, among other things inspecting a destroyed tank, virtually wading in the white dust. [ uranium oxide. -aswad ]

Much of his life is ruined. He feels that the armed forces have failed to provide the necessary follow-up, and been withholding answers. He ruminates over the things he's experienced in the Gulf, the things he's been exposed to; what they've done to his body and soul.

T.M. is arrested, the police confiscate the portion of a cluster bomb he's got stored at home, and he is also fined some USD 1.000 [current exchange rates. -aswad].

«I remember threatening to set fire to the Elvegårdsmoen base. It was a cry for help,» says T.M., «a damn loud one.»



FINANCIALLY, T.M. isn't doing too well. The beurocracy involved in getting compensation for the problems he's been left with is so complex and convoluted that he needs professional help navigating it. In January of 2006, this veteran- now living off an early disabilities pension- gets in touch with a lawyer from Stavanger.

The lawyer determines that TM's psychiatric condition, and its root cause, entitle him to compensation. But this requires another battery of medical examinations. TM is referred to the Norwegian Clinic of Military Medicine in April of 2007. Yet again, serious diagnoses are confirmed, including delusional disorders and posttraumatic stress disorder. Part of the specialist statement reads:

«The patient is deemed to have had good life function prior to the tours in the Gulf, Southern Iraq and Bosnia. The evaluation concludes that current set of afflictions is a direct consequence of events during his extended term of service.»

He is compensated some USD 56.000 from the state pensions and compensations fund [current exchange rates; for reference, minimum wage is USD 40.000/yr, barely enough to cover living in a 10sq.m. (100sq.ft.) apartment in his town. -aswad], according to the «directive on psychiatric injuries following international deployment». He is also awarded an injury compensation of some USD 30.000 from the public retirement and welfare fund.

This leaves him with USD 86.000 [about average income for a middle class family for 1 year. -aswad]. His lawyer proceeds with the paper mill to apply for "profession related injuries compensation" [no direct equivalent; yes, it's common for the different aspects of a claim to be processed by different sub-departments, each requiring a seperate claim to be filed. -aswad].

In 2006, GRJ has his own breakthrough. After many years of nagging doubts and cursory health inspections, he has gotten an appointment with a psychiatrist in Drammen. [that can take a while, particularly for veterans. -aswad] For him, this is a great leap forward.

«I had to start over, just talk my way through everything. All of it, from the beginning. That's the only way I can remember it,» says GRJ.

Other veterans of Unikom eventually hear about this psychiatrist, who has had an affiliation with the armed forces since 1986, and is one of the most familiar with UN veteran issues in Norway. He opines that NorMed was a very different assignment, and is critical of how the veterans have been treated.

«The assignment bore the character of being sufficiently difficult that some of the participants could reasonably be assumed to be traumatized by it. Yet there was no systematic assay of their mental and physical health», he comments. At the moment, he is treating five of the Unikom members. He also notes they have complaints that are consistent with Gulf War syndrome.



THIS IS THE YEAR when GRJ and various other veterans form a buddy support network, where colleagues from international assignments can meet others of a similar background. The response is so overwhelming that they turn it into a formal organization, SIOPS, in the fall of 2006. [ acronym: casualties of international ops. -aswad ] They are not content with the efforts of the UN Veterans' Association, and hope to lobby for change and public awareness. The web permits them to reach out to even more people, and the number of inquiries are substantial.

Back in Stokke, GRJ prints out information about posttraumatic stress disorder and why those afflicted by it are prone to asocial, aggressive and curious behavior. Then he distributes this among the neighbours. In Oslo, TB makes a similar leaflet, and hands it out to his extended family at the next gathering.

They're finally starting to be able to explain some of the difficulties of the past several years.


JANUARY 2007. TB decides to apply for 'work directed medical rehabilitation', to see if he can get back into a normal career, or failing that, qualify for a disability pension [ evaluation and attempted work directed rehabilitation are prerequisites for that. -aswad ].

Old papers are dug up, and his journal is reexamined.

There's the bombshell [sorry]: already back in 1995, when TB was found unfit to deploy on another UN assignment, the examining physician had written that by all appearances he was suffering from PTSD. Thus it is, some 16 years after his initial deployment in the Gulf War, that he finally finds some validation. Later, he would also get confirmation of what he had suspected a long time: that he has GWS. The worst is never knowing what his time in the service has done to him; what's happened.

«I never know how I'll be when I wake up,» he relates.

In August of 2007, a report on the financial rights of the UN veterans is delivered to the Department of Defense. In this report, it says: «A rigorous program of thorough, clinical examinations, with adequate duration, has not been carried out on personell in high risk international operations. ... The military, as of the 1st of June 2007, is processing about 50 compensation claims on the basis of mental health injuries subsequent to participation in international operations. Three diagnoses are most prominent: posttraumatic stress disorder, depression and anxiety; frequently with more than one of these per patient.»

The report notes that it there is a need for improving the rights of the veteran population, and points out several shortcomings in the practices regarding compensation for mental health injuries.


OCTOBER 11TH, 2007. UK war veterans are thrilled. After a protracted and difficult debate, the department of defense approves GWS as a legitimate condition, after denying the existence of such a condition for 16 years. Owing to significant pressure from the various veterans' organizations and members of the House of Commons, they have changed position on the issue.

Then-minister of defense, Lord Drayson, notes with regret that the matter has been handled poorly from the beginning, and makes an apology. This decision is an important one for the thousands who were stationed in Iraq in 1991, many of which returned with substantial problems.

In Norway, the decision is hardly accorded a footnote in the media. [ we usually cover UK politics and other current topics in the news and papers. -aswad ]



OSLO, LATE NOVEMBER, 2007. Another of our soldiers has been killed in Afghanistan. [ISAF-grenadier KSJ, age 22, roadside bomb in Meymaneh. -aswad] 48 year old TB sits on his couch in Sofiesgate, relating how strongly it affected him to see the casket arriving at Gardermoen. Again, he tears up.

«I know all too well how that kid's fellow soldiers are feeling right now,» he says.

At this point, TB is on 40% disability, and still struggling with the posttraumatic stress.

Getting on a tram remains a hell. Trains are fine, though, as long as he can be seated so that he can retain a full overview of the interior and other passengers. The air ambulance route to Ullevaal hospital passes over Sofiesgate, and every time a helicopter passes, he is right back in Iraq, reliving the transport of mine injuries.

«I have to work all this out. I have to crawl my way back to society and civilization.»



STOKKE, SAME TIMEFRAME. In a little, yellow house, a stout fellow of some 51 years is getting up from a chair. He's going to fetch some photographs, he has told us. He stands still a little while, thinking.

«What was I going to do now?» asks GRJ [ he's forgotten; not sure if that carries well enough. ]

GRJ is bitter. Not with the military, at least not primarily, but rather with the politicians. «What hypocrites. When you go out on an assignment, they bask in the glory. When you return, they give you a boot in the ass,» he comments.

In the shelf next to the couch is his collection of war movies. There are days when he can spend the night watching 'Band of Brothers'.

«I don't watch war movies for the blood and guts. I watch them to relive the feeling of unity, of being together. I can lose myself in the frame, hear the sounds, smell the scents. It's quite extraordinary.»


NITTEDAL, SAME TIMEFRAME. The stock market data are flickering across the TV in the dark living room. This is how LS makes a living now. As a small time trader, working out of his home.

45 year old LS relates his experiences in Iraq, occasionally pausing to clench his eyes shut a while before continuing. He says he has had problems with nightmares since then. Several times, he has tried to pull himself together, but he notices that he's very much withdrawn.

«I prefer peace and quiet,» he says, «it's just how it's turned out.»



DECEMBER 2007. The Christmas spirit is descending over Stavanger. 50 year old JOG is sitting in a bar, nursing a pint as he relates his experiences from NorMed. It's the first time he tells the story.

He pulls out the poem from '93. The paper is yellowed now, but it's still easy to read: «"Your country and the UN are grateful," they said, and left us. We were now they: the civilians, the others. But some things they couldn't take away: our ruddy dreams and solitude, the longing and memories. They could not change what we had now become: strangers in our own land.»

«That pretty much sums it up,» says JOG. There's a lot that has slipped from his mind over the years, but that poem is still with him.

Every time he drives to see his mother in Egersund, he keeps scanning the area around the highway, looking for snipers. «It's automatic. That's hardwired back here,» he says, pointing to the back of his head.

And JOG remembers his buddies, especially the one from the section tent in the desert.

«How's TM doing these days?» he asks.



IT'S DARK back at TM's home in Bjerkvik on the 26th of November, 2007. In the middle of the living room, an old heater provides the only light. From his house, he can just barely make out camp Elvegårdsmoen. The camp bothers him.

«You should hear them when they're at it,» he says. At its worst, he has found himself standing in the bed as he starts awake from the sounds of the volleys fired at the camp.

On a cabinet is a picture of then 22 years old TM in his UN service uniform. He looks young, healthy and innocent. After dropping out of college to enlist, he joined the medical corps. Later, he worked as a radiology assistant at Narvik hospital. Then, one day, he got a new opportunity: the military needed people for a medical corps assignment in the Gulf.

He's 39 years old now. He gets through the day tolerably well with just the right dose of medication. That's not the only thing in him, though. At a recent test, some 16 years after his deployment, his uranium levels were around the upper 'acceptable' limit.

«I want to know the facts. About the various things I've been exposed to, the tests, the vaccines, all of it.» says TM.

He's embittered with the military.

«They've been giving me a call about once every three years, so five times in total, I think. Probably just checking to see if I'm even alive anymore. Compensation? I want a life, not compensation. If I had known then what I know now, that I might as well have been stationed in Chernobyl, I would never have gone.» he says.



HE IS RESTLESS. Can't stay put. Jumps over to the CD-player. He puts on a recording from the Gulf War, something he calls «Desert storm radio». He fumbles around, and heavy breathing is heard. TM is putting on the protective gear to illustrate.

The cat jumps into his lap, scared, as the sound of the gas alarm from Saudi-Arabia fills the home, making our hairs stand on end. Sounds from the war.



Regarding some of the personell:

AH (41), Stryn. Car mechanic and driver in Unikom, currently an offshore maintainance worker in the North Sea. «I feel fine. No mental health problems. I think what saved me, was that I didn't understand what the mine injured Iraqi were saying, what pain and fear they expressed. But I'm not about to claim this was something that was easy to deal with. It could well be my turn to lose it one day.»

TS (43), Asker. Chef in Unikom, working on setting up a business. «I left society for several years. Moved to Sweden. People thought I was dead. The hardest thing was returning home after deploying. Experiencing how nobody cared. I get about 3-4 hours of sleep at night. Have headaches every day. My short term memory is shot. I don't function socially. But I didn't want to admit to it. It's only a few months ago that I even spoke to anyone about the problems.»

LU (46), Lillehammer. Dentist in Unikom, now in civilian practice. «I'm glad I survived the explosion in Doha. The terror was with me for a long time. When I returned, there was a wall of silence from the military. I had expected them to do some follow-up, but they had no interest in determining what we were exposed to.»

GH (48), Voss. Driver in Unikom, currently a janitor and EMT. «My short term memory is gone, and my joints ache. I've got diabetes. There's been an air of secrecy around everything about this assignment. I think it's odd that so many of us are having trouble with our memory. My trust in the military is gone. People don't get what we've been through, think it's just another UN mission, like, not war, almost a vacation.»

ØB (71), Steinkjer. Doctor and surgeon in Unikom, retired. «When I returned from Iraq, it took me two years to overcome the anxiety about mines. But it still rears its head now and then. Even today, I'll find myself on a quiet forest walk, suddenly freezing up, terrified to step on a mine.»

DR (65), Trondheim. Field priest in Unikom, working at NTNU. «This was an exhausting deployment. And most of those that have had trouble with it, have been deployed several times. Which raises the question: how many times should they be allowed to redeploy? So far, the military has been exploiting personell that sign up for international operations. Many don't know any other life. And I think it's fair to ask: what is it we've been part of?»

HB (46), Oslo. Bioengineer in Unikom. Currently working in GE Healthcare. «I've two sons of my own, 21 and 23 years old. One of them considered deploying to Afghanistan. As a mother, I found that difficult. I don't want them to experience that sort of thing. We can't override them, either; it's their decision. But we can explain that this isn't a game, that this can turn them into killers, that they may find themselves with people dying in their arms. That's the kind of thing the military doesn't like to talk about.»

[ As before, the source to credit is the local newspaper, BT. ]



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The real cost of war - 1/29/2012 2:09:01 PM   
PeePantsIn2012


Posts: 63
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

All suffer in a war... the victors as well as the vanquished...but some times wars are necessary.


Well said. Wars ARE necessary now and then. Like when the aerospace or munitions  industries need capital. Or when the lowly ingrates start going on about equality again. The trick is to put yourself in the way of the cashflow.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The real cost of war - 1/29/2012 2:15:12 PM   
PeePantsIn2012


Posts: 63
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

Parked side by side with room to open the doors creates a line of new trucks 33636 miles wide.
The circumference of the Earth is 24,900 miles.


Which means we'll need to park about a third of them on the Moon.
SON OF A BITCH! So that's what the fat little bastard  is up to with his 'Moonbase' scam!

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The real cost of war - 1/29/2012 3:36:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

When are we going to stand up to this lunacy and say "NO MORE - NEVER!" ??


It's not about 'no more, never' at all. It's about having realistic expectations and a firm grasp of what is involved. Sometimes, war is a choice we will want to make, or may even be one we are forced to make. The key point is for the recruits to know what they're signing up for, as well as for voters to know enough about war, to know that their elected representatives know enough about war, and to know the stances of politicians on the subject. In short, to play fair and be honest about things when lives are on the line. Soldiers aren't enemies to be deceived, but the flesh and bone of the military body, and the head should always be allowed to- indeed, required to- keep that in mind.

We've not done a good enough job of dealing with veterans up here. And, until recently, we didn't do a good enough job of preparing recruits for what would be entailed if they were to sign up for international operations. The latter has been changed, and there have been encouraging signs that the former may be changing. However, we're still going to deploy troops, medics, materiell and so forth when the UN makes a request inside the parameters of what our armed forces are allowed to be part of (e.g. peacekeeper forces, protection from militaries that attack their own civilian populace, etc.). And we're still going to deploy in support of NATO, since our national defense is contingent on NATO support being provided in return if we ever have another war on our own home soil. And the medical corps will keep deploying more often than the rest, hopefully with better aftercare in the future.

We did say "no more - never", once... that was called the "doctrine of the broken rifle".

It nearly secured Nazi-Germany the nuclear bomb, provided them with additional materials for their war effort, and cost thousands of French, British, German and Russian soldiers their lives, along with most of our own. Apart from that, the only thing to come out of it was that we were occupied for several years for our trouble, followed by extensive purges of scapegoats after the war, some of which are still in lawsuits over reparations for the injustices perpetrated against them (many of which weren't even born at the time). To borrow a phrase from BSG, it was "about what we did to ourselves."

And it's worth pointing out that the UK was planning the same thing, the Nazis just got there first (and probably treated the average citizen better than would've been the case with the UK as the occupying force). It's a pipe dream to think it's possible to operate without a good national defense force so long as there are those who will not play by your rules. And there will be, so long as humanity has anything in it worth keeping, because it's the same forces that move us to good as move us to 'evil', and it's the same ambitions that drive wars that also once drove us to master fire, speech, writing and the wheel.

It is our essential humanity that leads to war, and our failure to acknowledge it and live with it.

A military is required. But one doesn't necessarily have to have one that deploys elsewhere. We do, although there is an extensive effort to portray us as not having one in the eyes of the general population. Some countries don't. I seem to have a vague recollection that the Japanese self defense forces are restricted to a defensive role on home soil. I think it's necessary, or at least desireable, to deploy in defense of assets on foreign soil (embassies, etc.). Also, the UN and others rely on nation states contributing their forces for the resolutions of the UN councils to have any real weight. And for the smaller NATO countries, it is crucial to maintain the alliance in order to secure assistance in the case of a war on native soil (and you could argue the US bears some of that weight, as that makes it politically viable for said countries to base their defense on US support in the event of a war, rather than investing the funds to have an independent defense).

Proposing that everyone just say 'stop' and get off the merry-go-round doesn't work. Ask any one of a million different groups around the world that have been driven out, marginalized and stepped on for going that route. Or the ones that have no hope but to eventually cause enough suffering and terror to be left alone. No nation state will give up territory just because some of us think it's headed in the wrong direction and want to 'get off at the next stop', because leaving people alone isn't acceptable to anyone, and because population growth remains a 'human right', and because it isn't as if people would agree to be displaced from their homes to put an end to conflicts, or to be subjected to new laws or new cultures (can you imagine the Basque regions becoming autonomous, and the non-Basque going along with it?).

When compromises are voiced, reasonable people listen. But even reasonable people close their ears when someone is proposing a case that is a non-compromise that runs contrary to major interests, tradition, inertia and prejudices, to name a few of the brakes. If you want to limit the fallout from war, the right place to start isn't by saying 'no more war', as that is something people recognize as the position of the vanquished, not those left well enough alone. It's making oneself a target, more than anything else, really.

Imposing requirements on the use of armed forces, or consequences for their use, that's more likely to have the desired effect. Think GWB would have risked two simultaneous wars in the Middle East if he had a realistic prospect of being slapped with jail time for it, or even an execution? That congress would've supported it, if they individually faced that same prospect?

Just random thoughts; some assembly required, of course.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The real cost of war - 1/30/2012 4:40:04 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


War is neither inherently necessary or inherently inevitable. Both experience and history tell me that war is, for present time, practically inevitable.

Armies are necessary for some of the reasons you mention, and explain very well, but primarily due to the fact that society is evidently not yet up to the task of figuring out just what we are here for, or at least, having a rather distorted notion of what that might involve in pursuit thereof.

Norway did not suffer more and Switzerland suffer less regarding 20th century matters, even in both presenting neutrality, because they chose one particular stance or another. They both had smaller populations (by far) and smaller capacity for war making (or "defense," as we call it now) than their larger neighbors, and stood no chance of staving off invasion from that standpoint alone.

Norway had oil, Switzerland didn't. Simple as that.





(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The real cost of war - 1/30/2012 9:41:41 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Imposing requirements on the use of armed forces, or consequences for their use, that's more likely to have the desired effect. Think GWB would have risked two simultaneous wars in the Middle East if he had a realistic prospect of being slapped with jail time for it, or even an execution? That congress would've supported it, if they individually faced that same prospect?

Hey Aswad, thanks for translating that piece about the Norwegian UN soldiers. It was illuminating, and made riveting reading.

It is unlikely that war will become obsolete in my lifetime. That doesn't mean that we can't make every effort to minimise war and the possibility of war. Holding politicians and leaders personally accountable, as you suggest, is an excellent start.

Another very simple measure that every country could agree to adopt is to forbid the deployment of its armed forces or the use of a country's military might outside its borders, except when sanctioned by the UN. If armies aren't allowed outside their countries, then they can't come into contact with other armies acting under similar constraints can they?

The adoption of these two very simple and straightforward measures by international agreement would go a long way towards minimising the possibility of war. I see no insuperable reason why they both can't be adopted. It's just a matter of generating the necessary political will and momentum ie of ordinary citizens asserting their will onto their politicians.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/30/2012 9:47:47 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 60
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