RE: What has your party done lately that you support?

RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

tazzygirl -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/16/2012 10:07:44 PM)
I was hoping either Rich or Firm would be along soon to do so.

hlen5 -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/16/2012 10:14:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I can't help but notice that no Republicans have offered anything their party has done that they support. Does CM have any 1 percenters?

provfivetine -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 5:27:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 Does CM have any 1 percenters? Yep, I am, and so are many of the people posting here. If you make more than $47,500/year then you are in the (global) 1%. Also, I'm not sure why everyone is so supportive of this health care reform. Forcing companies to cover kids until 26 and forcing companies to cover pre-existing conditions may help those affected, but it can only happen by increasing costs, lowering quality, and socializing the risk pool. Under this system the rich subsidize the poor; the young subsidize the old; the healthy subsidize the unhealthy; the non-smokers subsidize the smokers; life-style vegans subsidize life-style big Mac eaters, etc. Also, this is all fantasy anyways because the real question is simple: what are you universal health care slappies going to do when Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and Kennedy nullify the bill in June? Of course, if by some crazy chance it does pass, then there will be challenges from 26 states seeking to nullify it at the state level. A single-payer system will not happen in America.

Lucylastic -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 5:34:49 AM)
not while there are attitudes like yours holding others back, you are quite correct

provfivetine -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 5:48:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic not while there are attitudes like yours holding others back, you are quite correct Exactly. However, you'd be in error if you think that "attitudes like mine" will 'progress.' This Marxist conception that progressivism is inevitable is absurd; progressivism is nothing more than a pantheized version of religious eschatology.

Lucylastic -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 6:04:25 AM)
LMAO eat a big boys dictionary for breakfast did you?? thas cute progress? no, I didnt use that word, so please dont assume I meant it either. It wouldnt be progress it would be a fucking miracle. bless your heart

Miserlou -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 7:13:50 AM)
quote: If I was Republican....I think I would just be deeply ashamed and angry. i am.

Musicmystery -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 8:18:44 AM)
quote: Yep, I am, and so are many of the people posting here. If you make more than $47,500/year then you are in the (global) 1%. Since (at least so far) this is a discussion of U.S. politics, clearly 1% refers to U.S. income. Or if that wasn't clear to you, it is now. Given that the average global income in $7,000/year, global figures aren't going to help us much here. Median income in the U.S. in 2010 was $50,221/year. Per capita was $27,041 In fact, $67,280/year would put you in the top 25% of the U.S. earners. $33,048 would put you in the top 50%. The top 1% in the U.S. earns $343,927 or more/year.

Musicmystery -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 8:25:30 AM)
quote: I'm not sure why everyone is so supportive of this health care reform. Forcing companies to cover kids until 26 and forcing companies to cover pre-existing conditions may help those affected, but it can only happen by increasing costs, lowering quality, and socializing the risk pool. Under this system the rich subsidize the poor; the young subsidize the old; the healthy subsidize the unhealthy Raising the pool size, the healthy subsidizing the unhealthy, is exactly what insurance is all about. There's also a moral argument, but I know that won't play here, so I'll leave that part alone. Companies were already facing soaring premium costs, in double digits annually. Small businesses were being forced to cancel coverage, and risk losing their employees. The situation was only going to escalate.

Musicmystery -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 8:27:35 AM)
quote: A single-payer system will not happen in America. The current system is unsustainable long term. The 2014 plan will slow that considerably (but yes, at a cost). Single payer is simply what will happen when the rest finally falls. The only difference is that in America, some would wait to see it completely fall first. But the question is when, not if.

LaTigresse -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 8:32:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: provfivetine A single-payer system will not happen in America. I believe that is what people like you, once said about.......federal income tax, social security, medicare and medicaid.....etc etc etc

tazzygirl -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 8:50:20 AM)
The baby boomers are healthier than their predecessors. And staying alive longer. No matter how much anyone wants to believe things "wont change", the system will crash, for everyone, if they dont. The only way to prevent that is to have everyone pay into the same pool for health care and leave the insurance companies to cover the elective procedures.

provfivetine -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 9:11:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery The current system is unsustainable long term. The 2014 plan will slow that considerably (but yes, at a cost). Single payer is simply what will happen when the rest finally falls. The only difference is that in America, some would wait to see it completely fall first. But the question is when, not if. Agreed that it will collapse, but a single-payer system is an unlikely alternative. There are several reasons: Let's take a look at the current "universal" health care models around the world. DATA SOURCE (Not sure how reliable this source is, as I just googled it and picked it at random). Country Start Date of Universal Health Care Norway 1912 Single Payer New Zealand 1938 Two Tier Japan 1938 Single Payer Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer Kuwait 1950 Single Payer Sweden 1955 Single Payer Bahrain 1957 Single Payer Brunei 1958 Single Payer Canada 1966 Single Payer Netherlands 1966 Two-Tier Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer Finland 1972 Single Payer Slovenia 1972 Single Payer Denmark 1973 Two-Tier Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate France 1974 Two-Tier Australia 1975 Two Tier Ireland 1977 Two-Tier Italy 1978 Single Payer Portugal 1979 Single Payer Cyprus 1980 Single Payer Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate Spain 1986 Single Payer South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate Iceland 1990 Single Payer Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier Singapore 1993 Two-Tier Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate Israel 1995 Two-Tier United States 2014 Insurance Mandate What do these countries have in common that differs from the US? A lot. Heres a few: 1. Population - Outside of Japan (I will get to that shortly) there is no country on that list with a top 20 population. This makes it much easier to implement for obvious reasons. There is a reason that China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Nigeria, Russia, etc are not on that list. How the hell are you supposed to have a single payer system in a country of 300 million plus? 2. Ethnicity - In addition to small population size, these countries are all largely ethnically homogenous - certainly much moreso than the US. Norway is composed mostly of Norwegians, Japan mostly of Japanese, etc. This makes poltical/economic/social issues easier to resolve than it would be in ethnically diverse countries. (Think about it: the divide in America today is largely the white middle class vs. blacks, hispanics, and guilt-ridden white liberals.) 3. Health - In addition to the population figures and homogeneous ethnicity, the Americans have a problem that other countries don't have: horrible health. That's right. Those Swedes, Japs, Norweigans, Canadiens, Aussies, and the rest of the countries on that list are not fat slobs that eat poor diets and don't exercise. American health care costs would be vastly more expensive than those in other countries because of this. Single payer also will worsen the financial picture as it socializes the risk onto everyone in society instead of the pre-approved insurance pool; it encourages recklessness since everyone is covered regardless of the health/lifestyle choices. 4. Divide in opinion - Unlike all those other countries, single payer health care does not have majority support in the US. Why would a single payer system be introduced when many people don't want it? Bottom line is that comparing a US single payer system to any other country is not only disingenuous, but patently false. Remember there are 26 states that are waiting to file suit if Obamacare is found constitutional; that's over half the states! It's moot to even really speculate about this though. If SCOTUS doesn't nullify Obamacare, then individual states will; the plan as it currently stands is dead.

provfivetine -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 9:36:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I believe that is what people like you, once said about.......federal income tax, social security, medicare and medicaid.....etc etc etc This is a common criticism. It is true that social security, medicare, and medicaid have become more favorable in public opinion since their inception. However, this has the potential to make it even more dangerous! Just because an issue has majority support does not make it true/just/right/the best outcome/etc. Creating social programs based on ponzi-scheme economics has always been popular because it is easy for the booboisie to be duped into thinking that these programs are sustainable. It is also good for politicians because they get to play Santa Clause and dole out welfare to the masses, which increases their electability. Obviously, a politician that says "I will give you welfare" is going to fair better in a democratic environment than someone who claims the opposite. To put it simply, the scams created by FDR and LBJ will not end because voters democratically choose to rescind them; rather they will end in complete catastrophe because of the inherent failure of basing social programs on Ponzi-Scheme economics. Social security is running a negative cash flow, and Medicare and Medicaid are running into more problems every day. These contingency liabilities are off the charts and cannot be honored. This scenario is identical to what would happen if the single-payer system was implemented and would yield the same results: higher prices, then lower quality, then more rationing, then financial trouble, repeating these steps a few times, which ultimately leads to bankruptcy.

tazzygirl -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 9:51:59 AM)
By population... 1) China... People's Republic of China Main article: Healthcare system reform in the People's Republic of China Since the founding of the People's Republic of China, the goal of health care programs has been to provide care to every member of the population and to make maximum use of limited health-care personnel, equipment, and financial resources.[citation needed] China is undertaking a reform on its health care system, which was largely privatized in the 1990s. The New Rural Co-operative Medical Care System (NRCMCS), is a new 2005 initiative to overhaul the healthcare system, particularly intended to make it more affordable for the rural poor. Under the NRCMCS, the annual cost of medical cover is 50 yuan (US$7) per person. Of that, 20 yuan is paid in by the central government, 20 yuan by the provincial government and a contribution of 10 yuan is made by the patient. As of September 2007, around 80% of the whole rural population of China had signed up (about 685 million people). The system is tiered, depending on the location. If patients go to a small hospital or clinic in their local town, the scheme will cover from 70–80% of their bill. If they go to a county one, the percentage of the cost being covered falls to about 60%. And if they need specialist help in a large modern city hospital, they have to bear most of the cost themselves, the scheme would cover about 30% of the bill.[48] On January 21, 2009, the Chinese government announced that a total of 850 billion yuan (US$ 127.5 billion) will be provided between 2009 and 2011 in order to improve the existing health care system.[49] 2) India... India Main article: Healthcare in India India has a universal health care system run by the local (state or territorial) governments. Government hospitals provide treatment at taxpayer expense. Some essential drugs are offered free of charge in these hospitals. However, the fact that the government sector is understaffed, underfinanced and that these hospitals maintain very poor standards of hygiene forces many people to visit private medical practitioners.[citation needed] An outpatient card at AIIMS (one of the best hospitals in India) costs a one-time fee of 10 rupees (around 20 cents U.S.) and thereafter outpatient medical advice is free. In-hospital treatment costs depend on the financial condition of the patient and the facilities utilized, but are usually much less than the private sector. For instance, a patient is waived treatment costs if their income is below the poverty line. However, getting treatment at high quality government hospitals is very tough due to the high number of people needing healthcare and the lack of sufficient facilities. 3) US 4) Indonesia 5) Brazil Brazil Main article: Health care in Brazil The universal health care system was adopted in Brazil in 1988 after the end of the military regime's rule. However, free health care was available many years before, in some cities, once the 27th amendment to the 1969 Constitution imposed the duty of applying 6% of their income in healthcare on the municipalities.[ 6) Pakistan 7) Nigeria 8) Russia Russia Main article: Healthcare in Russia Article 41 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation confirms a citizen's right to state healthcare and medical assistance free of charge.[78] This is achieved through state compulsory medical insurance (OMS) which is free to Russian citizens, funded by obligatory medical insurance payments made by companies and government subsidies.[79][80] Introduction in 1993 reform of new free market providers in addition to the state-run institutions intended to promote both efficiency and patient choice. A purchaser-provider split help facilitate the restructuring of care, as resources would migrate to where there was greatest demand, reduce the excess capacity in the hospital sector and stimulate the development of primary care. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin announced a new large large-scale health care reform in 2011 and pledged to allocate more than 300 billion rubles ($10 billion) in the next few years to improve health care in the country.[81] He also said that obligatory medical insurance tax paid by companies will increase from current 3.1% to 5.1% starting from 2011. 9) Bangladesh 10) Japan Some nations, such as Germany, France[63] and Japan[107] employ a multi-payer system in which health care is funded by private and public contributions. 11) Mexico A decade ago, half of all Mexicans had no health insurance at all. Then the country’s Congress passed a bill to ensure health care for every Mexican without access to it. The goal was explicit: universal coverage. By September, the government expects to have enrolled about 51 million people in the insurance plan it created six years ago — effectively reaching the target, at least on paper. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/world/americas/30mexico.html?pagewanted=all Something they are still working on... 12) Philippines 13) Vietnam 14 ) Ethiopia 15 ) Germany Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. In Britain, the National Insurance Act 1911 marked the first steps there towards universal health care, covering most employed persons and their financial dependents and all persons who had been continuous contributors to the scheme for at least five years whether they were working or not. This system of health insurance continued in force until the creation of the National Health Service in 1948 which extended health care security to all legal residents. 16 ) Egypt 17) Iran Coverage See also: Social Security Organization (Iran) The constitution entitles Iranians to basic health care, and most receive subsidized prescription drugs and vaccination programs. An extensive network of public clinics offers basic care at low cost, and general and specialty hospitals operated by the Ministry of Health and Medical Education (MOHME) provide higher levels of care. In most large cities, well-to-do persons use private clinics and hospitals that charge high fees.[3] About 73% of all Iranian workers have health care and social security coverage.[3] In 2000, 94% of the population could access local health services, according to the WHO. Access ranged from 86% in rural areas to 100% in urban areas.[3] Between 80% and 94% of the population could access affordable essential medicines in 1999.[3] Since 2009, a new government plan called "the comprehensive insurance plan" provides basic coverage to all Iranians.[7] 18) Turkey 19) Congo 20) Thailand Thailand Main article: Health care in Thailand Thailand introduced universal coverage reforms in 2001, becoming one of only a handful of lower-middle income countries to do so back then. Means-tested health care for low income households was replaced by a new and more comprehensive insurance scheme, originally known as the 30 baht project, in line with the small co-payment charged for treatment. People joining the scheme receive a gold card which allows them to access services in their health district, and, if necessary, be referred for specialist treatment elsewhere. The bulk of finance comes from public revenues, with funding allocated to Contracting Units for Primary Care annually on a population basis. According to the WHO, 65% of Thailand's health care expenditure in 2004 came from the government, 35% was from private sources.[50] Although the reforms have received a good deal of critical comment, they have proved popular with poorer Thais, especially in rural areas, and survived the change of government after the 2006 military coup. The then Public Health Minister, Mongkol Na Songkhla, abolished the 30 baht co-payment and made the UC scheme free. It is not yet clear whether the scheme will be modified further under the coalition government that came to power in January 2008.[56][57][58] If there is nothing beside the name its because that country does not provide Universal Coverage or nothing could be found.

Lucylastic -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 9:53:49 AM)
I should check with you before I google fu. Thankyou thankyou As I said, a miracle....

tazzygirl -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 10:18:18 AM)
My it went quiet.

Lucylastic -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 10:22:38 AM)
Dint it?? thats twice in one day

provfivetine -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 10:51:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl By population... 1) China... People's Republic of China Main article: Healthcare system reform in the People's Republic of China Since the founding of the People's Republic of China, the goal of health care programs has been to provide care to every member of the population and to make maximum use of limited health-care personnel, equipment, and financial resources.[citation needed] China is undertaking a reform on its health care system, which was largely privatized in the 1990s. The New Rural Co-operative Medical Care System (NRCMCS), is a new 2005 initiative to overhaul the healthcare system, particularly intended to make it more affordable for the rural poor. Under the NRCMCS, the annual cost of medical cover is 50 yuan (US$7) per person. Of that, 20 yuan is paid in by the central government, 20 yuan by the provincial government and a contribution of 10 yuan is made by the patient. As of September 2007, around 80% of the whole rural population of China had signed up (about 685 million people). The system is tiered, depending on the location. If patients go to a small hospital or clinic in their local town, the scheme will cover from 70–80% of their bill. If they go to a county one, the percentage of the cost being covered falls to about 60%. And if they need specialist help in a large modern city hospital, they have to bear most of the cost themselves, the scheme would cover about 30% of the bill.[48] On January 21, 2009, the Chinese government announced that a total of 850 billion yuan (US$ 127.5 billion) will be provided between 2009 and 2011 in order to improve the existing health care system.[49] 2) India... India Main article: Healthcare in India India has a universal health care system run by the local (state or territorial) governments. Government hospitals provide treatment at taxpayer expense. Some essential drugs are offered free of charge in these hospitals. However, the fact that the government sector is understaffed, underfinanced and that these hospitals maintain very poor standards of hygiene forces many people to visit private medical practitioners.[citation needed] An outpatient card at AIIMS (one of the best hospitals in India) costs a one-time fee of 10 rupees (around 20 cents U.S.) and thereafter outpatient medical advice is free. In-hospital treatment costs depend on the financial condition of the patient and the facilities utilized, but are usually much less than the private sector. For instance, a patient is waived treatment costs if their income is below the poverty line. However, getting treatment at high quality government hospitals is very tough due to the high number of people needing healthcare and the lack of sufficient facilities. 3) US 4) Indonesia 5) Brazil Brazil Main article: Health care in Brazil The universal health care system was adopted in Brazil in 1988 after the end of the military regime's rule. However, free health care was available many years before, in some cities, once the 27th amendment to the 1969 Constitution imposed the duty of applying 6% of their income in healthcare on the municipalities.[ 6) Pakistan 7) Nigeria 8) Russia Russia Main article: Healthcare in Russia Article 41 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation confirms a citizen's right to state healthcare and medical assistance free of charge.[78] This is achieved through state compulsory medical insurance (OMS) which is free to Russian citizens, funded by obligatory medical insurance payments made by companies and government subsidies.[79][80] Introduction in 1993 reform of new free market providers in addition to the state-run institutions intended to promote both efficiency and patient choice. A purchaser-provider split help facilitate the restructuring of care, as resources would migrate to where there was greatest demand, reduce the excess capacity in the hospital sector and stimulate the development of primary care. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin announced a new large large-scale health care reform in 2011 and pledged to allocate more than 300 billion rubles ($10 billion) in the next few years to improve health care in the country.[81] He also said that obligatory medical insurance tax paid by companies will increase from current 3.1% to 5.1% starting from 2011. 9) Bangladesh 10) Japan Some nations, such as Germany, France[63] and Japan[107] employ a multi-payer system in which health care is funded by private and public contributions. 11) Mexico A decade ago, half of all Mexicans had no health insurance at all. Then the country’s Congress passed a bill to ensure health care for every Mexican without access to it. The goal was explicit: universal coverage. By September, the government expects to have enrolled about 51 million people in the insurance plan it created six years ago — effectively reaching the target, at least on paper. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/world/americas/30mexico.html?pagewanted=all Something they are still working on... 12) Philippines 13) Vietnam 14 ) Ethiopia 15 ) Germany Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system, with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. In Britain, the National Insurance Act 1911 marked the first steps there towards universal health care, covering most employed persons and their financial dependents and all persons who had been continuous contributors to the scheme for at least five years whether they were working or not. This system of health insurance continued in force until the creation of the National Health Service in 1948 which extended health care security to all legal residents. 16 ) Egypt 17) Iran Coverage See also: Social Security Organization (Iran) The constitution entitles Iranians to basic health care, and most receive subsidized prescription drugs and vaccination programs. An extensive network of public clinics offers basic care at low cost, and general and specialty hospitals operated by the Ministry of Health and Medical Education (MOHME) provide higher levels of care. In most large cities, well-to-do persons use private clinics and hospitals that charge high fees.[3] About 73% of all Iranian workers have health care and social security coverage.[3] In 2000, 94% of the population could access local health services, according to the WHO. Access ranged from 86% in rural areas to 100% in urban areas.[3] Between 80% and 94% of the population could access affordable essential medicines in 1999.[3] Since 2009, a new government plan called "the comprehensive insurance plan" provides basic coverage to all Iranians.[7] 18) Turkey 19) Congo 20) Thailand Thailand Main article: Health care in Thailand Thailand introduced universal coverage reforms in 2001, becoming one of only a handful of lower-middle income countries to do so back then. Means-tested health care for low income households was replaced by a new and more comprehensive insurance scheme, originally known as the 30 baht project, in line with the small co-payment charged for treatment. People joining the scheme receive a gold card which allows them to access services in their health district, and, if necessary, be referred for specialist treatment elsewhere. The bulk of finance comes from public revenues, with funding allocated to Contracting Units for Primary Care annually on a population basis. According to the WHO, 65% of Thailand's health care expenditure in 2004 came from the government, 35% was from private sources.[50] Although the reforms have received a good deal of critical comment, they have proved popular with poorer Thais, especially in rural areas, and survived the change of government after the 2006 military coup. The then Public Health Minister, Mongkol Na Songkhla, abolished the 30 baht co-payment and made the UC scheme free. It is not yet clear whether the scheme will be modified further under the coalition government that came to power in January 2008.[56][57][58] If there is nothing beside the name its because that country does not provide Universal Coverage or nothing could be found. This brings up a good point. At what point is health care considered universal? Is it universal just because the government says so, even when health care is clearly not universal? It's ironic that most of these countries purport to have universal health care when much of their population does not have access. India claims to have "universal" coverage, but the reality is far from that. China absolutely does not have universal coverage, and the paragraph that you posted regarding health care in China is just a list of initiatives the government took regarding the health care sector; this can be done with virtually any country. Of those countries you list, only Japan and Germany (forgot them)--maybe Brazil (forgot them)--can claim to have anything close to universal coverage. I'll take the current fascist American health care system over the Indian/Iranian/Russian/Thai "universal" system any day, which--for all practical purposes--aren't universal to begin with.

tazzygirl -> RE: What has your party done lately that you support? (1/17/2012 10:58:37 AM)
Could have sworn... and.. yep, I went back and checked... it states the goal of China is for coverage. Hell, we arent even going for that goal. quote: I'll take the current fascist American health care system over the Indian/Iranian/Russian/Thai "universal" system any day, which--for all practical purposes--aren't universal to begin with. I guess it sort of escaped you that many of these countries who have no coverage in that top ten list just won... or are fighting... for their "independence" from tyrannical reigns. Some are so poor there is no way they could possibly cover even half. What you are doing is equating Universal Health Care with "Free" health care. That was never anyone's intentions. If you are willing to discuss that, we can continue. If not, enjoy your day.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625