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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 6:55:10 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		When you have been raised to believe that sexual pleasure and desire are immoral it just follows that you are going to hate that which arouses such feelings in you.  It is akin to the same process that makes some homosexuals some of the worst homophobes and gay bashers out there.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 8:26:59 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Upon reflection, this says it all
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Women already control all the pussy. They don't want them controlling half the money as well.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 8:33:55 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Upon reflection, this says it all
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Women already control all the pussy. They don't want them controlling half the money as well.


You weren't very receptive of that answer initially but it isn't far off.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 8:35:19 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		And it almost fits on a bumper sticker. Ok, I was initially wrong

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 8:36:53 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I can imagine the reception that bumper sticker would get in the Bible Belt.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 8:58:00 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I think there is some other things going on than just sexuality, though. Men are, in general, physically stronger then women. I think there were periods of history where brute physical strength was more important than it is now. Men somewhat naturally assumed the leadership role for that reason alone. Might makes right. Since fundamentalist religions abhor change and fight tooth and nail to preserve traditions, I think they maintain the historical viewpoint, and feel threatened by women taking a new role.

I hope I didn't offend you Hill, you know I love your big white cock

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 9:01:27 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Of course you didn't offend.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 9:26:26 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		ETA: not directed to any one poster in particular.


Did no one watch the video and postcscript video that xssve posted?

Such barren intellectual discourse after the fact if you all have.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 1/17/2012 9:27:40 AM >

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 10:45:06 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I saw this:

undesired-in-india-boys-are-prized-over-girls-with-violent-results

and didn't want to get further depressed, so did not click. I was just reading about sati and "witch" burning last night.

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 10:47:22 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

If anyone's interested, there's quite a body of thought amongst ecofeminists exploring just this question. Common to the various strands is 'the idea of ‘man’ pitted against nature while nature is feminized and “woman” is assumed to have profound connections with her environment.'

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 11:00:11 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I saw this:

undesired-in-india-boys-are-prized-over-girls-with-violent-results

and didn't want to get further depressed, so did not click. I was just reading about sati and "witch" burning last night.


I don't blame you for not clicking. There's only so much misanthropy (misogyny OR misandry) one can take at a time.

(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 11:32:21 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

ETA: not directed to any one poster in particular.


Did no one watch the video and postcscript video that xssve posted?

Such barren intellectual discourse after the fact if you all have.

I share your sentiments hlen5.

However I find it equally depressing that so many posts decline to mention, or even acknowledge the possibility of a relationship between men and misogyny. Some posts even go so far as to suggest that women are the main drivers of misogyny without even mentioning men.

Even at the most simplistic level of analysis, it is a matter of historical record that almost all fundamentalist movements have been developed and driven by males, and that in almost all religions, the priestly caste is almost always exclusively male (many religions have quasi-priestly subordinate roles for women eg nuns in Catholicism). Please don't take this to mean that I am blaming men in general, all males, or even exclusively males for misogyny. I'm not. Women have contributed to their own disempowerment over the centuries.

It's so sad that a discussion supposedly about fundamentalism and misogyny that neurotically refuses to even acknowledge that males have been historically and remain today the predominant driving force of fundamentalism, the primary beneficiaries from misogyny, and in large part the very individuals who create, maintain and propagate the links between the two, is about as useful and productive as a vote for a corpse.

ETA: not directed to any one poster in particular.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/17/2012 11:42:32 AM >

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 12:02:34 PM   
Anaxagoras


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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion."

Ironic signature line in a misogyny thread. I'll add the next sentence from the quote:

quote:

This she can become only when she has the same rights as he and is his equal in education and work.


I wonder how Severin meant it - that it was inevitable that women would eventually achieve equality?

I suppose the intent of Severin is very much a matter of debate but Venus in Furs appeared at the same time as the beginnings of the women's suffrage movement so he may have associated that with the above rather than it being inevitable.

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"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 12:32:00 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I wouldn't have said the novel had anything to do with sufferage, myself. Apart from anything else, all of the roleplaying is going on in the context of pre revolutionary Russian feudalism, and they didn't give a damn who chained themselves to a railing or jumped in front of a horse over there, did they?
(That's quite without getting into the dim view most feminists take of pornography of any flavour, of course...)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 12:44:37 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

(That's quite without getting into the dim view most feminists take of pornography of any flavour, of course...)


Wouldn't it be more accurate to state "the dim view some feminists take of pornography"? My impression is that this vocal minority of pleasure-fearing feminists is increasingly isolated and marginalised within feminism. Their silly trashy claims are becoming less credible and influential with each passing day.

As a politician once remarked to me: "Every movement has its trogs".

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/17/2012 12:45:07 PM >

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 12:53:19 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I can't claim to be a feminist myself, but I thought the pro smut wing was still a minority, and a lot of feminists take a dim view of those who don't share their issues with it. It's no bad thing if this situation has improved.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 1:07:11 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		That anti-sex stream of feminism (ppl like Janice Raymond, Catherine MacKinnon etc) arose initially out the lesbian-separatism stream of feminist thought. It really peaked in the 70s-80s and has been on an extended downhill slide ever since. Sadly it hasn't quite died off yet.

Nowadays it's a surprise for me to encounter a lesbian-separatist under 50 (not that I would describe myself as an -ist of any sort). The younger feminists I encounter regard these people with a kind of quaint amusement - they're indulged because of long years of service to the movement. And then pretty much ignored, like a dear but demanding cantankerous great aunt in her dotage straight out of an Agatha Christie novel.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/17/2012 1:11:03 PM >

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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 1:14:28 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Right.
I was assuming that they must still be a force to be reckoned with over the mauling they gave Camille Paglia twenty years back. (Mind you, wtf she was doing calling herself a feminist I can't imagine, so I've got a bit more sympathy for that than I should.) A few tongues were clucked at Susie bright as well, if memory serves.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 1:17:38 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		General Reply


The whole point of feminism is choice. A choice to give birth or not, a choice to marry or not, work or not, run for office or not. Some women like porn, some don't.

"Feminism" is not a monolith.

ETA: Just as every man comes to his opinions from his own reasoning, so do women.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 1/17/2012 1:20:10 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Women and fundamentalist religions - 1/17/2012 1:19:08 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Oh my god, I knew a bunch of seperatism fanatics in college. Jesus, those chicks were annoying. I wonder if they are still spouting their nonsense 35 years later.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 40
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